Conseal or get kicked out of Walmart

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schwarzi88 wrote:

the thing that bugs me the most is the fact that they told me to "just pull your shirt over it " if i didn't have a CCP i would be breaking the law.

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Hold on a minute, here. If these guys are security/loss prevention/whatever, while they are on duty, are they not acting under the authority of, or representing, the store manager? If so, and they ask you to conceal, would you not, by extension, have permission of the property owner's representative, and thereby be legal to CC while on the premises?

Something to chew on.......

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Yes, licensed armed private security officer.

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colormered wrote:

schwarzi88 wrote:

the thing that bugs me the most is the fact that they told me to "just pull your shirt over it " if i didn't have a CCP i would be breaking the law.

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Hold on a minute, here. If these guys are security/loss prevention/whatever, while they are on duty, are they not acting under the authority of, or representing, the store manager? If so, and they ask you to conceal, would you not, by extension, have permission of the property owner's representative, and thereby be legal to CC while on the premises?

Something to chew on.......

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I kinda got lost on the second part there. But yes, loss prevention/security act ONLY within their limits set forth by their security company and the client. I have rules from my company I follow and things I do that have been given to me to do by the client I work for. I don't think loss prevention are secruity guards, though. I believe their scope of authority is to get men and women, boys and girls, stealing items from the store. That is their job. A security officer, on the other hand, probably has more authority to ask you to do that because of his position.

But if a LP/SEO is representing the store manager of Wal-Mart and the SM has a policy that is not legal according to Wal-Mart International Policy then them asking you to CC is an illegal request.

SO yeah... but now as I re-read your post I don't think so. I still don't think it is legal to CC on the premises even with permission from the store manager because the store manager is not following Wal-Mart policy which is to go by the state law where the store is located. You really wouldn't have any legal fall back because, lets face it, the LP/SEO/SM will probably lie to keep themselves out of trouble even though we hope they won't.

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schwarzi88 wrote:

it was at the one on 13th S. and 3rd W.

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Take a look at this thread, I was at this Walmart:

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum52/10452.html

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schwarzi88 wrote:

it was at the one on 13th S. and 3rd W. the guys were lossprevention from that store i didn't get the names the head guy was a middle 30s poly about 6' and the other guy was like 4'6" lol mexican guy in constant contact with management i guess. it happened about noon to 1 pm on 6/21/08 the store logs could show the ppl on duty. the manager that i called was the assistent mng. by the name of mark.

the thing that bugs me the most is the fact that they told me to "just pull your shirt over it " if i didn't have a CCP i would be breaking the law.

and secondly the ignorance of the ppl working there just f*****g bugs me! i will be on the phone with regional first thing in the morning and update everything that happens ..... IF something happens!

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Schwarzi88,

When I worked for a local retail chain the owner asked each of his employees to carry concealed while on duty (unless otherwise prohibited from doing so). This because while on private property, as he explained, the property owner sets the rules.

I'm not a lawyer, but even if you didn't have a CFP, if the property owner (or an agent thereof, which an employee acting in their capacity for the property) tells you to conceal your firearm while on their property, that trumps State Law. Theoretically this would include their parking lot as well. This could also be used to set a precedence at that location, possibly at all locations.

Again, I'm not a lawyer, so if anyone has another opinion, please share!

- www.JoeLevi.com

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I think the law regarding concealing does not have anything in it saying that you can conceal on private property. So I don't think that one is going to work.

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thx997303 wrote:

I think the law regarding concealing does not have anything in it saying that you can conceal on private property. So I don't think that one is going to work.

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Nope. If you can't conceal legally, they can still ask you to leave.

In any case, it doesn't matter. Wal-mart's corporate policy is clear, and it allows OC in Utah and other states where it's legal. All that's needed is to get the local manager told by his higher-ups that he can't prohibit it.

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Outsider wrote:

SNIP In my personal opinion as a licensed private security guard I think Loss Prevention Personnel over step their duties and think they are security guards when in fact they are not.

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Oh, jeez. Here come the LP-bashing accusations.

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What is LP?

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thx997303 wrote:

What is LP?

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Loss Prevention, aka security guards

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Ahh, I don't think there's so much wrong with LP bashing as there is in LEO bashing.

But still probably shouldn't do it.

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thx997303 wrote:

Ahh, I don't think there's so much wrong with LP bashing as there is in LEO bashing.

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Funny pic, but I don't see how it applies.

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thx997303 wrote:

Funny pic, but I don't see how it applies.

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Just a reference to the whole mall ninja thing. I'd expect the bash-worthy LPs to be on the same wavelength.

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schwarzi88 wrote:

....i was instant ly asked by 2 security guards to either conseal my fire arm or i would have to leave...

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i OCed today for about and hour and a half with my wife @ the Walmart in AF. No one said anything. Also, i would like to point out that I am not OCing a Black on black Walther P22...Im wearing my S&W Full Frame Sigma series sw9ve. So, yea, i think all the KSL and local news publicity is helping.:celebrate

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swillden wrote:

thx997303 wrote:

Funny pic, but I don't see how it applies.

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Just a reference to the whole mall ninja thing. I'd expect the bash-worthy LPs to be on the same wavelength.

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I just read all those posts.... unbelievable.

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xRapidDavex wrote:

swillden wrote:

thx997303 wrote:

Funny pic, but I don't see how it applies.

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Just a reference to the whole mall ninja thing. I'd expect the bash-worthy LPs to be on the same wavelength.

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I just read all those posts.... unbelievable.

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Unbelievably HILLARIOUS!!!!

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SMITHS NINJA!

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actually they can because walmart is private property and corporate policy states a zero tolerance for open firearms in the store unless you are an active leo. i currently work as an asset protection officer and while i dont agree with it thats there policy. i do think if good law abiding citizens with a ccw could open carry at walmart it would make the store a safer p0lace, but you all know how imposible it is to get some big corporate rule maker to agree with a small pee on....

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Uhh, we have already established through speaking with Wal-mart corporate, that wal-mart's official policy regarding customers carrying is to abide by the laws in the place that the Wal-mart is located.

Maybe it has zero tolerance for employees, but not for customers.

And as far as concealing, you can NOT conceal on private property without a CCP.

So they can ask you to leave, but not conceal.