Interested in OCing

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OK,now I've lived in Northern Kentucky all my life,and was interested in OCing.Im 22,served in the Army for three years in PsyOps a SOF MOS,can obviously legaly purchase handguns.The only charge I've ever had is a misdemeanor alcohol offense but can't recieve a CCW permit because I had my daughter a while back on the medical card,wich fathers have to pay half of the birthing expenses back,but because you have to make the payments to the child support office,they deem it as child support wich prohibits me from recieving a permit until its paid off.I've read the websites about KY and OCing but just have a few questions that may seem silly,but it is better safe than sorry because the information can at times be vague.Can I walk into most stores OCing without a permit and be fine? What is the best way to OC to be on the right side of the law(shirt completely tucked in or just where holster and firearm is located,OC in vehicle or put in glove box)? I ask most of these questions because 1.Where I live I hardly see many individuals OCing. 2.At the location I purchase firearms from,the owner told me if someone makes a phone call to the LEOs saying "A man is walking around with a gun" I could be charged with a "Disturbing the peace" or another crime.Excuse me if these questions are silly,but I am new to theidea of OCing alltogether and just want to be able to protect myself,and family while still being a lawabiding citizing to wich that line is seeminglybecoming more and more transparent.Thank you.

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I OC in Independence, Florence, Newport, and Covington whenever I am through the area, about one weekend a month. No problems to report. I've had a friend in law enforcement OC with me, in fact I turned him on to it Never had a LEO say anything.

A couple months ago I did almost get the cops on me when I tried to go into a gas station late at night to get a bottle of Dr. Pepper in Florence. The night clerk got on the loudspeaker and said, "Are you a cop? Flash me your badge. If you're not a cop you need to get back in your car right now or I'm hitting the alarm." A woman at the pump started saying "Ohmagosh" over and over again, with a "This isn't happening" thrown in every once in a while for good measure. I got in the car and left. Whatever... If that station hires a clerk that panics at the sight of a HOLSTERED firearm I guess they don't want my money. I'm sure he hit the button and I'm sure the cops showed up the hear some heroic story about how he stopped a robbery with cunning, wit, and words.
I stopped at the Speedway in Covington (right before you cross the river) right after that and one clerk asked "is that legal?" then the other clerk stole my thunder and explained OC to him. I guess the night wasn't a total wash

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I am glad that you haven't had your rights infringed on and that did seem absurd about the gas station clerk.I went and asked some workers at another gun store and they said that you should be allright if you OC in your car but that if you walk down the street,ecspecially in the instance they gave,downtown Covington,that they could arrest you for "Inciting Panic" and "Wanton Endangerment". Im going to speak to someone at the Kenton and Campbell County PDs to see thier take on it.Maybe its because I live across the river from Cincinnati,wich to me would give more incentive to want to OC but I think I may just wait until Jan. when I should have my daughters stuff paid off and just get a CCW permit to be safe.

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I just spoke with a Ludlow LEO that lives at the bottom of my street about OCing.He said its not illegal but that people will likely call the police on you and you deffinetly can be arrested.In his opinion he said he diddnt think that its right but he said it had to do alot with the fact that around the Northern Kentucky area it tends to be small,heavily populated towns,and its likely to draw alot of attention,and every knows someone that knows someone that is a LEO,and they tend to be at the mercy of the citizens,wich he said doesnt agree with it.He also went on to talk about how he hopes Obama don't get into office because he sees him as being on the line of being a communist.Stating that the first thing Hitler did was take away peoples weapons.That reminded me of the saying "First they registered the guns then took the guns,then they registered the Jews,then they took the Jews".Cool cop I said to myself,lol.

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There is no way you can be arrested for OC in the state of KY, if that is all you are doing. Period. Again, if that is all you are doing.

Now, if you are causing some sort of disturbance and OC'ing, then you could be arrested, but it would be for "Disorderly Conduct". That is the closest thing to "Disturbing the Peace" that we have in KY, but it is pretty much in the same vein.

Now, if you walk into an establishment, and let's say the establishment has a "No Firearms" sign posted, then indeed, you could be arrrested for either Disorderly Conduct, or possibly, and more accurately, Criminal Tresspass.

One thing to understand, in KY, open carry is constitutionally protected, and one thing they make very,very clear during your time in the KY DOCJTBasic Training Academy.Mostpolice dispatchers, when they get the call from citizens of a "man with a gun", will ask the right questions, and if the person is peacefully OC'ing, they will tell the caller that the act is not illegal. Generally, they will not even dispatch an officer to the scene. I know that may be hard for some people who have not grown up/lived in KY, but it is simply (mostly) common knowledge and accepted in KY.

I would not want to be the first cop in KY to arrest a citizen for nothing more than peacefully OC'ing.

And yes, I am a police officer in KY.

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Thank you for that.I've grown up here,and lived here all my life and thats what Ive read online.Maybe the people that I asked are just going off of things that "they've heard from someone,that knew someone,who had an uncle that"that sort of thing.And with the pre-emptive statue they put in place I know they can't set up ordanaces.Just where I live Ive never really noticed anyone doing it,and the officer I asked never said he arrested anyone for it,Im just nervous about it because my records clean except for an A.I I had before I was 21 and want to keep my record that way.

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KRS 237.110 (17) says this, "... Carrying of a concealed weapon, or ammunition, or both in a location specified in this subsection by a license holder shall not be a criminal act but may subject the person to denial from the premises or removal from the premises, and, if an employee of an employer, disciplinary measures by the employer." That basically means that it isn't illegal if you walk into a store that has a 'no firearms' sign, just that you might be asked to leave. If you don't leave when asked to then it is trespassing.

I've looked up the statutes on disorderly conduct and inciting a riot in the KRS as well and there is no way you could be charged under either statute for simply having a holstered weapon.




Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, if you get arrested don't call me to represent you.

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N00blet45 wrote:

KRS 237.110 (17) says this, "... Carrying of a concealed weapon, or ammunition, or both in a location specified in this subsection by a license holder shall not be a criminal act but may subject the person to denial from the premises or removal from the premises, and, if an employee of an employer, disciplinary measures by the employer." That basically means that it isn't illegal if you walk into a store that has a 'no firearms' sign, just that you might be asked to leave. If you don't leave when asked to then it is trespassing.

I've looked up the statutes on disorderly conduct and inciting a riot in the KRS as well and there is no way you could be charged under either statute for simply having a holstered weapon.




Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, if you get arrested don't call me to represent you.

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Well, as a Police Officer, I can tell you that the Disorderly Conduct would kick in as a completely legit charge depending on how you act once you are requested or ordered to leave. If you start to make a stink about leaving, the DC would most definately kick ing. Not for carrying, but for making an arse of youself when asked to leave.

Refusing to leave an establishment when requested or ordered can result in a Criminal Tresspass.

I should have made that clearer in my previous post.

It's not the fact that you walk in with a weapon, it's how you react when asked to leave.

There we go, clear as mud.

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I'm going to include some Simple Kentucky Laws at the end of my post.

I'm 66 and have been excercising my OPEN CARRY rights for the last 35 years. I started when the Chief of New Haven, Kystopped me for open carry in 1973. He had to let me go, and we became friends.

I work with cops now and have on and off for years. I'm a part time Corrections Officer. Gives me something to do.

A cop can and will pretty much do as he wants at times, including arresting you for open carry. You will win against him, but the key word is he CAN. Most won't. One is warned about carrying open in large Kentucky cities, that you may be harassed.

Use common sense and you'll be ok.

*Firearms Ownership: unrestricted, no permit or license required

[align=left] *Assault weapon ownership: unrestricted, no permit or license required[/align]
[align=left] *Machine Gun Ownership: no state restrictions, compliance with federal law only[/align]
[align=left] *Firearm law uniformity: preemption law, firearm laws uniform throughout state[/align]
[align=left] *Right of Self-Defense: castle doctrine, right protected by statute[/align]
[align=left][/align]
[align=left] *Open carry: unrestricted in most public areas and generally accepted[/align]
[align=left][/align]
[align=left] *Concealed carry: licenses granted to residents on a "shall issue" basis; automatic
reciprocity for nonresidents with licenses from other states[/align]
[align=left] *Vehicle carry and transportation: firearms (rifles, shotguns and handguns) may
be carried loaded and in plain view; loaded handguns maybe carried in
the glove compartment (center console box carry is not allowed) [/align]
[align=left][/align]

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Just trying to make it clear. You made it seem like if you walked in when a sign was posted it would be a crime. It's not a crime till you refuse to leave when asked to or you conduct you leaving in a disorderly way. Just reclearing.

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I have open carried in KY the past two times I have visited, but this time I am going to see my brother play baseball at the University of KY. Is carry allowed on College Property? If it is I will most likely CC (yes I have a permit) just to avoid any misunderstandings.

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From what I understand the law does not prohibit the carrying of a firearm onto college property. Although the college may set its own policy. So it might be against their policy to allow firearms.

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TheMrMitch wrote:

I'm going to include some Simple Kentucky Laws at the end of my post.

I'm 66 and have been excercising my OPEN CARRY rights for the last 35 years. I started when the Chief of New Haven, Kystopped me for open carry in 1973. He had to let me go, and we became friends.

I work with cops now and have on and off for years. I'm a part time Corrections Officer. Gives me something to do.

A cop can and will pretty much do as he wants at times, including arresting you for open carry. You will win against him, but the key word is he CAN. Most won't. One is warned about carrying open in large Kentucky cities, that you may be harassed.

Use common sense and you'll be ok.

*Firearms Ownership: unrestricted, no permit or license required



[align=left] *Assault weapon ownership: unrestricted, no permit or license required[/align]


[align=left] *Machine Gun Ownership: no state restrictions, compliance with federal law only[/align]


[align=left] *Firearm law uniformity: preemption law, firearm laws uniform throughout state[/align]


[align=left] *Right of Self-Defense: castle doctrine, right protected by statute[/align]


[align=left][/align]


[align=left] *Open carry: unrestricted in most public areas and generally accepted[/align]


[align=left][/align]


[align=left] *Concealed carry: licenses granted to residents on a "shall issue" basis; automatic
reciprocity for nonresidents with licenses from other states[/align]


[align=left] *Vehicle carry and transportation: firearms (rifles, shotguns and handguns) may
be carried loaded and in plain view; loaded handguns maybe carried in
the glove compartment (center console box carry is not allowed) [/align]


[align=left][/align]

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I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you, with all due respect.

Remember, I am a police officer. If I was to lodge someone for OCing, I had better scramble to come up with an offense, as there is no KRS against OC, therefore you cannot be arrest for OC.We needto make that distinction. It is very technical, but it is important. The arrest citation could not charge you with OC.It would have to charge with Disorderly Conduct, or some such. Simply walking down the street with a holstered firearm is not going to get you arrrested, as it is commonly, commonly known in KY that OC is protected.

Yes, maybe back in the 1970's, before the uniformity of the KY DOCJT training took over, you would have some local yokal deputy who thought he could throw his weight around, and find some charge for someone who is OCing, but not now.

I have been a cop for almost 10 years, and I have never, never heard of someone being lodged for OC. I have never even heard of someone being charged after the initial contact was for OC, and other charges developed.


Edit:

Again, common sense rules apply here.

1. Dress like you're not a thug.

2. Don't let the gun play peek-a-boo. It's either concealed or it's not.

3. Use a good, professional rig. Tucking it into your pants or a pocket is not only dangerous and stupid, it looks bad to others.

4. Be courteous; smiles and eye contact with those who notice go a loooong way. Remember your pleases, ma'ams and sirs.

5. I'm as muchof a civil libertarian ascan be, but in watching those videos of people engaged in interactions with LEO about open carry, I can tell you that all you are doing is making the situation worse by doing the following:

A. Making phonecalls to radio stations while the interaction is going on.

B. Repeatedly saying "I have nothing to say about that."

C. Refusing to give ID.

I can tell you, if you are doing nothing wrong, but I am called to check youout by a third party, all I want to do is get some ID, then get the hell out of your hair,as most LEO want to do. Mostly, it would be a show for the person calling in the complaint. The quicker we get it done the better. The last thing I want is some big scene where you are on the phone, a video recorder is going, and acrowd is gathering.

You want to get the police out of your hair, then let's get it donequick. If you start getting dodgy (yes, I know you're just exercising your rights, but in reality, all you are doing is keeping me from going and dealing with real criminals while you choose to stretch out a situation that could be easilyleft behind), then I have to dig further, just to make sure.

I know what I am saying is probably contrary to what a lot of you good folks believe, but think of this: When I took my job as a police officer, I realized very quickly that a big part of my job is to protect the rights of others, not just to take them away. I seeit as my duty to use my power, authority, and skills to protect your rights.

Trust me, I am a brother in arms with you. I am only trying to help here.

Peace and strength be with you.

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A cop CAN.....CAN is the key word. There is nothing to stop him from arresting you IF HE WANTS TO, right or wrong. Most will NOT arrest for OC.

A cop CAN shoot you if he wants. So CAN anyone else. That's the point I was making. They will harass you in some big cities.

I've had my weapon taken twice and returned the next day. They could, and did, although they werein the wrong.Hats off to you for your position OC.

Justdon't exacerbate the situation and things will work out fine.

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TheMrMitch wrote:

A cop CAN.....CAN is the key word. There is nothing to stop him from arresting you IF HE WANTS TO, right or wrong. Most will NOT arrest for OC.

A cop CAN shoot you if he wants. So CAN anyone else. That's the point I was making. They will harass you in some big cities.

I've had my weapon taken twice and returned the next day. They could, and did, although they werein the wrong.Hats off to you for your position OC.

Justdon't exacerbate the situation and things will work out fine.

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No.

You cannot be arrest for OC. There is no charge in the Commonwealth for OC. None.

I am a police officer, so please understand. YOU CANNOT BE ARRESTED FOR OC. PERIOD. I am not yelling, just trying to emphasize a point.

You possibly could be arrested for Disorderly Conduct, but man, I would not want to appear before a District Judge for the charge of DC if I took someone in for OC.

Again, understand, you cannot/willnot be arrest for OC in the Commonwealth. THERE IS NO APPROPRIATE CHARGE.

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Sir. A Cop CAN arrest you for OC. He will be wrong but a cop CAN do just about anything he wants right or wrong at any given time. I know there is no law for that, you know that and most all of usknow that. As stated, my weapon was confiscated twice (because they could) but given back twice.

The word *CAN* denotes the ability do do something, though itmay NOT BE DONE.

I hereby invite you to my rifle range and a beer afterward. We both are close enough for that....eh?

As an aside:I carried my dad's .38 special on my paper route 53 years ago and carried a .45 as a 17 years old Marine Military police. This was 49 years ago. Looks like we both have some years ofexperience.

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Thanks for the honest, straight forward perspective, Superdemon.

And thanks to you to MrMitch for your relating your many years of KY carry experience.

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TheMrMitch wrote:

Sir. A Cop CAN arrest you for OC. He will be wrong but a cop CAN do just about anything he wants right or wrong at any given time. I know there is no law for that, you know that and most all of usknow that. As stated, my weapon was confiscated twice (because they could) but given back twice.

The word *CAN* denotes the ability do do something, though itmay NOT BE DONE.

I hereby invite you to my rifle range and a beer afterward. We both are close enough for that....eh?

As an aside:I carried my dad's .38 special on my paper route 53 years ago and carried a .45 as a 17 years old Marine Military police. This was 49 years ago. Looks like we both have some years ofexperience.

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I think our problem is a problem of syntax.

When I say you can not be arrested for OC, I mean you cannot be charged with carrying a weapon openly. Quite simply, as a police officer, I can tell you that there is no such charge.

If you encounter an LEO, and he decides to take you to jail, the closest thing you could be charged with is Disorderly Conduct. You cannot be arrested and charged with OC.

There is no law in KY that I can lodge you on for OC. Period.

I will most certainly take up your offer of the range time and the beer(s).

Peace and strength be with you.

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HehHeh You nailed my friend. You are indeed a gentleman and you surely do have the invite.

I too am an officer, andfor the last eight yearshave been swornin corrections. Many more before that. I debate this same thing with deputies and city police all the time (I do it from your side). I do the Corrections thing simply for something to keep me busy as I have a decent retirement and SS income.

My home is between Bardstown and Elizabethtown, and I'm always hosting shoots on my property complete with Tannerite. You must attend one.....and thanks for your discourse!

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superdemon wrote:

I think our problem is a problem of syntax.

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I know y'all have this all settled politely, but let me just add: TheMrMitch understands the difference between "can" and "may", and was using the former correctly.