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Thread: VCDL alert on Fairfax Arrest

  1. #1
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    1. The VCDL picnic - wow!
    2. Three Fairfax County police officers prove the Keystone Kops are
    alive and well

    ************************************************** ********
    1. The VCDL picnic - wow!
    ************************************************** ********

    Saturday's picnic in Newport News couldn't have been better! With
    almost 200 attendees, the picnic was VCDL's largest yet.

    The weather was incredible, too. Bright sunny day, with low humidity
    and a continuous and fairly strong breeze kept everyone comfortable.

    Members and non-members came from as far away as Bristol and even
    Maryland!

    The press was there filming for most of the day - more on that in an
    upcoming alert.

    Apparently a Newport News park ranger was called about a "man with a
    gun." He took one look at well over 100 armed men and women
    peacefully enjoying a picnic, took a few pictures of the pavilion, and
    left. He never actually came to the pavilion. The pictures were
    probably for his fellow rangers - "you aren't going to believe
    this!" ;-)

    Delegate Pogge, who carried a bill for VCDL this year, spoke to the
    group. She also spoke briefly for Senator Ken Cuccinelli, who had
    been invited but couldn't make it.

    Many thanks to all those who made the picnic and the food line flow
    smoothly, including: Board members Dennis O'Connor and Bruce Jackson,
    EMs Ron and Jean Hyson, Ron Lilly, Pete Clark, Bonnie Clark, and Sandy
    Ferris, and members Bill and Jan Donald, Ed Burton, Monty Oakes,
    Coreena and William Taylor, and membership director Jacque Blundell
    (who was updating memberships on the spot with a portable computer).

    Some "celebrities" that dropped by were Chet and Debbie Szymechi,
    Bill Mixon, and Danladi Moore. Chet was unlawfully arrested for open
    carry and his wife assaulted last year by the Norfolk Police and
    sheriff's deputies. Their federal lawsuit is progressing. Bill Mixon
    was the VCDL member who was on the cover of Concealed Carry Magazine a
    few months ago. Danladi was unlawfully arrested last year for not
    identifying himself to officers when open carrying, having done
    nothing wrong.

    I was approached by Jo Whistler at the picnic and she discussed a
    petition for the redress of grievances that GiveMeLiberty.org has put
    together on the Second Amendment. I told her I would pass it on the
    the alert list so that anyone who wanted to sign it, could. It does
    require you to register to sign the petition:

    http://tinyurl.com/4x2z4g

    ************************************************** ********
    2. Three Fairfax County police officers prove the Keystone Kops are
    alive and well
    ************************************************** ********

    We haven't had any issues with the Fairfax County police in quite a
    while now. I have found them to be one of the best run police
    agencies in Virginia.

    However, three officers tarnished that image last week when they
    unlawfully arrested a North Carolina resident who was legally carrying
    a handgun and had a North Carolina CHP.

    Hold on tight - this is a weird story.

    The gun owner was pulled over for running through a red light, a
    charge which the gun owner disputes.

    The gun owner, believing that he had to disclose he was lawfully armed
    as they do in North Carolina, dutifully told the officer he had a NC
    CHP and was indeed armed.

    The officer seemed to ignore the statement, but very shortly two more
    patrol units pulled up. The next thing the gun owner knew he is in a
    "felony stop" mode. He was asked to walk backwards towards the
    officers, who then disarmed and handcuffed him.

    While trying to unloaded his gun, THEY DROPPED IT ONTO THE ROAD!

    The two officers and a SERGEANT then proceeded to tell him that he was
    under arrested for:

    1. Having hollow point bullets, which they claimed were illegal in
    Virginia (!)
    2. Taking a loaded gun across the state line, which the gun owner
    was told was a FELONY (!)
    3. Having a concealed gun that the police said he couldn't have since
    he was from North Carolina (!!)

    His car and gun were impounded and he was taken off to a magistrate.

    The magistrate looked at the charges and told the police officers that
    they had just made a false arrest.

    The officers pointed out the possession of hollow point bullets. The
    magistrate asked, "are they teflon coated?"

    "No," replied on of the officers.

    "Then they are legal."

    Trying to find something that would stick and justify the false
    arrest, one of the officers said, "We couldn't verify that his North
    Carolina permit is valid."

    The magistrate looked at the permit, noticed the phone number on the
    back where one can call to verify the permit, called the number, and
    within a few minutes found out the permit was indeed valid.

    The gun owner was ordered to be released.

    After being released from custody, the gun owner was given a hard time
    by another officer about getting his gun back, but he did finally get
    it back.

    If all of that isn't bad enough, the arresting officer went ahead and
    gave the gun owner a ticket for the alleged offense of running a red
    light!

    In essence, with that brilliant move, the officer was practically
    BEGGING the gun owner to PLEASE sue Fairfax Count for the false arrest!

    I have already talked to my high-level contact with the Fairfax County
    PD about this entire situation and the gun owner has filed a formal
    complaint.

    In the past, Fairfax County PD has been very good when such internal
    investigations are required. Now we will wait and see what happens.

    What is clear is that Fairfax County PD needs to educate its officers
    on:

    1. Possession of hollow point bullets
    2. Reciprocity laws
    3. Lawful carriage of firearms across state lines
    4. Safe gun handling (a few years ago unsafe gun handling by an
    officer cause a gun to discharge, killing an unarmed, handcuffed man)

  2. #2
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    Wow!

  3. #3
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    I am dumbfounded by the stupidity of the FFX PD

    I mean, really?

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    From the VCDL email alert.

    ************************************************** ********
    2. Three Fairfax County police officers prove the Keystone Kops are
    alive and well
    ************************************************** ********

    We haven't had any issues with the Fairfax County police in quite a
    while now. I have found them to be one of the best run police
    agencies in Virginia.

    However, three officers tarnished that image last week when they
    unlawfully arrested a North Carolina resident who was legally carrying
    a handgun and had a North Carolina CHP.

    Hold on tight - this is a weird story.

    The gun owner was pulled over for running through a red light, a
    charge which the gun owner disputes.

    The gun owner, believing that he had to disclose he was lawfully armed
    as they do in North Carolina, dutifully told the officer he had a NC
    CHP and was indeed armed.

    The officer seemed to ignore the statement, but very shortly two more
    patrol units pulled up. The next thing the gun owner knew he is in a
    "felony stop" mode. He was asked to walk backwards towards the
    officers, who then disarmed and handcuffed him.

    While trying to unloaded his gun, THEY DROPPED IT ONTO THE ROAD!

    The two officers and a SERGEANT then proceeded to tell him that he was
    under arrested for:

    1. Having hollow point bullets, which they claimed were illegal in
    Virginia (!)
    2. Taking a loaded gun across the state line, which the gun owner
    was told was a FELONY (!)
    3. Having a concealed gun that the police said he couldn't have since
    he was from North Carolina (!!)

    His car and gun were impounded and he was taken off to a magistrate.

    The magistrate looked at the charges and told the police officers that
    they had just made a false arrest.

    The officers pointed out the possession of hollow point bullets. The
    magistrate asked, "are they teflon coated?"

    "No," replied on of the officers.

    "Then they are legal."

    Trying to find something that would stick and justify the false
    arrest, one of the officers said, "We couldn't verify that his North
    Carolina permit is valid."

    The magistrate looked at the permit, noticed the phone number on the
    back where one can call to verify the permit, called the number, and
    within a few minutes found out the permit was indeed valid.

    The gun owner was ordered to be released.

    After being released from custody, the gun owner was given a hard time
    by another officer about getting his gun back, but he did finally get
    it back.

    If all of that isn't bad enough, the arresting officer went ahead and
    gave the gun owner a ticket for the alleged offense of running a red
    light!

    In essence, with that brilliant move, the officer was practically
    BEGGING the gun owner to PLEASE sue Fairfax Count for the false arrest!

    I have already talked to my high-level contact with the Fairfax County
    PD about this entire situation and the gun owner has filed a formal
    complaint.

    In the past, Fairfax County PD has been very good when such internal
    investigations are required. Now we will wait and see what happens.

    What is clear is that Fairfax County PD needs to educate its officers
    on:

    1. Possession of hollow point bullets
    2. Reciprocity laws
    3. Lawful carriage of firearms across state lines
    4. Safe gun handling (a few years ago unsafe gun handling by an
    officer cause a gun to discharge, killing an unarmed, handcuffed man)


    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
    Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    Fairfax PD needs to send this guy an apology letter, the officers involved should get time on the street (suspension) and they should have there overtime suspended for a while.

    Hollow points illegal! This cop was clearly shooting his mouth off and he had no idea what he was talking about.

    Taking a loaded handgun across state line! What? Absurd!

    The officer said he couldn't have a concealed handgun because he was from North Carolina! Somebody get me some duct tape!
    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
    Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009

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    Three points:

    1. Unless required by law, never notify the police you are carrying.

    2. Virginia law does not require that the permit be verified for it to be accepted on its face bypolice in the field.

    3. Virginia law does not generally allow the police to "arrest" for misdemeanors, like carrying concealed without permit - they are just supposed to issue a summons and let you on your way - in this case, it appears the officers invented a federal felony of bringing a loaded gun acorss state lines to justify custodial arrest.

  7. #7
    Newbie W.E.G.'s Avatar
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    The Fairfax County PD is usually excellent on carry issues.

    I cannot fathom what happened here.

    I can almost believe the confusion about the out-of-state permit.... Almost.

    But the "hollow-point bullet" thing???

    I don't get that at all. Hollow-point bullets have NEVER been mentioned in ANY Virginia statute. That is so lame-brained that the County Executive and the Commonwealth's Attorney should be throwing furniture.

    Un-frickin'-believeable.

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    I have heard it advisable to disclose that you are armed but is it true that it is not required by law?

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    Harvdog wrote:
    I have heard it advisable to disclose that you are armed but is it true that it is not required by law?
    Why do you think it might be required by law?

    What does 18.2-308 say?

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    Harvdog wrote:
    I have heard it advisable to disclose that you are armed but is it true that it is not required by law?
    Not in the state of Virgina. Of course there is always some cop or park ranger that will tell you different, but as we all know that enforcing the law is not the same as knowing the law.
    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
    Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009

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    So you wouldn't tell an officer that you were armed whether open or concealed at any point during a traffic stop? This normally doesn't occur but what if they asked you to step out of the vehicle?

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    W.E.G. wrote:
    I don't get that at all. Hollow-point bullets have NEVER been mentioned in ANY Virginia statute. That is so lame-brained that the County Executive and the Commonwealth's Attorney should be throwing furniture.

    Un-frickin'-believeable.
    That cop must have been a transfer from NJ...

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    Harvdog wrote:
    So you wouldn't tell an officer that you were armed whether open or concealed at any point during a traffic stop? This normally doesn't occur but what if they asked you to step out of the vehicle?
    Oh! Then that changes everything. When they ask you to step out of the vehicle you are obligated by law to drop you trousers so they can kiss your a@#! Just kidding, they know you have a permit when they run your plates.
    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
    Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009

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    T Dubya wrote:
    Harvdog wrote:
    So you wouldn't tell an officer that you were armed whether open or concealed at any point during a traffic stop? This normally doesn't occur but what if they asked you to step out of the vehicle?
    Oh! Then that changes everything. When they ask you to step out of the vehicle you are obligated by law to drop you trousers so they can kiss your a@#! Just kidding, they know you have a permit when they run your plates.
    LOL!

    Good point though about running the plates.

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    As an LEO, if you have a CHP dispatch will let me know (and I could care less actually). I consider everyone in every traffic stop to be armed. So if you are OCing I should see it and unless you give me reason to be more concerned I probably wont even mention it.

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    They may or may not have run your plates before approaching the car though. It's at the officers discretion.



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    I find it so hard to believe this is true. This is something you expect in Maryland or NY or NJ. Or China.

    These ignorant fascists in Fairfax need a serious lesson. Fairfax government needs to pay through the nose.

    And meanwhile they should pay to have a gunsmith make sure they didn't hurt the gun in any way whatsoever. Outside of any financial settlement.



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    Mike wrote:
    Three points:

    1. Unless required by law, never notify the police you are carrying.

    2. Virginia law does not require that the permit be verified for it to be accepted on its face bypolice in the field.

    3. Virginia law does not generally allow the police to "arrest" for misdemeanors, like carrying concealed without permit - they are just supposed to issue a summons and let you on your way - in this case, it appears the officers invented a federal felony of bringing a loaded gun acorss state lines to justify custodial arrest.
    it is amazing that the NC law requires someone with a valid permit to notify the police if they are carrying; but if they are illegally carrying without a permit, there is no provision that requires them to notify police

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    T Dubya wrote:
    Just kidding, they know you have a permit when they run your plates.
    In VA, they'll only know if you have a VA permit, and only if the car you're driving is registered to you. If you're driving a rental car, or your spouse's car etc. and they don't have a permit, the officer won't have any indication that you have a permit until they run your DL, and then only if you have a VA permit...
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    OMG WOW............



    There has to be more to the story...........


    Otherwise here are my question's.

    How did that Sgt make Sgt?

    Since the Sgt, tends to make up laws to file charges against this guy;how many other people has he done this to? That didn't know what the SGT was doing IS ILLEGAL and a gross obuse of police authority?

    If the story actually is correct, then this guy MUST FILE A LAWSUIT... not to get rich but simple to make a statement.

    Again I would like to see the rest of the story? Also, the location that this occurred in particularly what FFX PD station?



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    Mike wrote:
    SNIP it appears the officers invented a federal felony of bringing a loaded gun acorss state lines to justify custodial arrest.
    And possibly to justify full search of the vehicle. Don't forget that possibility.

    I can't waitto find out the officer's names.Ido not want anything further disclosed until it is smart for the victim to do so. But until then, I will be waiting with great anticipation.

    Many thanks and kudos to the Magistrate for knowing and applying the law.He or sheneeds a letter of appreciationfor standing as a bulwark against outrageous police behavior.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Harvdog wrote:
    So you wouldn't tell an officer that you were armed whether open or concealed at any point during a traffic stop? This normally doesn't occur but what if they asked you to step out of the vehicle?
    So what?

  23. #23
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    FYI: It's NOT illegal under VA code to have "teflon" bullets UNLESS they are used in the commission of a crime.



    ยง 18.2-308.3. Use or attempted use of restricted ammunition in commission or attempted commission of crimes prohibited; penalty.

    A. When used in this section:

    "Restricted firearm ammunition" applies to bullets, projectiles or other types of ammunition that are: (i) coated with or contain, in whole or in part, polytetrafluorethylene or a similar product, (ii) commonly known as "KTW" bullets or "French Arcanes," or (iii) any cartridges containing bullets coated with a plastic substance with other than lead or lead alloy cores, jacketed bullets with other than lead or lead alloy cores, or cartridges of which the bullet itself is wholly comprised of a metal or metal alloy other than lead. This definition shall not be construed to include shotgun shells or solid plastic bullets.

    B. It shall be unlawful for any person to knowingly use or attempt to use restricted firearm ammunition while committing or attempting to commit a crime. Violation of this section shall constitute a separate and distinct felony and any person found guilty thereof shall be guilty of a Class 5 felony.

  24. #24
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    Citizen wrote:
    Many thanks and kudos to the Magistrate for knowing and applying the law.He or sheneeds a letter of appreciationfor standing as a bulwark against outrageous police behavior.
    For what it's worth - FxCo is in the 19th Judicial Circuit. According tho the Virginia Court System website, here is the Chief Magistrate for the 19th Ciucuit.


    Mr Claude J. Beheler
    Nineteenth Judicial District
    10520 Judicial Drive
    Fairfax, VA 22030-5197
    703/246-2178

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    My question is "while commiting a Crime"

    Technically, he had a driving infraction (is that not considered a criminal offense?) Don't they issue you a criminal summons?

    I'm not trying to be a smart A$$, I'm just saying if they really really really want to get technical. Could they use that argument?

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