Stopped at Loveland Walmart while OCing

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SANDCREEK wrote:

If Wal-Mart posts signs - then maybe Target deserves our business.

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Speaking of Target, just a few days ago I OC'd in the Target across the street from the Aurora Mall and they gave me a bunch of crap about it. They said CC is fine but no OC. Of course, I spent a good 20 minutes talking with the manager and another employee about the situation but they didnt really care. I finally just left my cart in the middle of the aisle and left.

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entartet17 wrote:

SANDCREEK wrote:

If Wal-Mart posts signs - then maybe Target deserves our business.

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Speaking of Target, just a few days ago I OC'd in the Target across the street from the Aurora Mall and they gave me a bunch of crap about it. They said CC is fine but no OC. Of course, I spent a good 20 minutes talking with the manager and another employee about the situation but they didnt really care. I finally just left my cart in the middle of the aisle and left.

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Sorry to here that entartet17 ! Ironic, but I ran into a Target here in the Springs yesterday morning. I was in the electronics/camera dept for about 10 minutes - I didn't buy anything though just in & out again. Pet Smart3 times this past week - purchased a parakeet & supplies- no problems. I did e-mail Wal-Mart a couple hours ago with a request for policy clarification on this open carry question. I presented essentially the same argument for OC that I cited in earlier post. ( Increased risk to my safety if I have to conceal - selection as an "unarmed" victim by BG.) Also I mentioned documented instances of kidnapping, purse snatching, homocide, and stabbing occuring on site at Wal-Marts. Also that since they do NOT provide (armed) security for customers - that is my responsibility. I have a feeling they won't concede on CC is OK but NO policy on OC. We've got work to do. In order to off-set property manager's concerns - that the visibility factor will result in "problems", they need to be apprised of the BENEFITS arising from allowing OC in their store. More armed visibility among valued customers= fewer low-lifers lingering around the premises = fewer purse snatchings, vehicle burglaries, abductions , assaults, etc.OC is lawful in Colorado and law-abiding customers should be able toaccomplish their shopping with reasonable expectations of safety.As much as I want to respect property rights, these retail establishments are essentially PUBLIC venues - providing NO SECURITY for their customers. Incidentally, on this topic of "security" - there is a legal philosophy that argues " if a business provides SECURITY - then THEY ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY for customer's safety." That , I believe, is WHY you seeso little security at retail establishments. I think leaving your shopping cart ($$$$$) and exiting sends an excellent message.

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Evocatii wrote:

...it would be nice to have a website that has a posting of those big business that object to the exercising of open carry for future reference.

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Welcome to the forum!

http://rmgo.org/merchant/merchant_listing.shtmlis a good list for CO.

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I e-mailed Wal-Mart HQ in Bentonville, AR a couple of days ago asking for a written statement of their corporate policy on OC- citing the law of Colorado. My info request was framed within the context that I am a CC permit holder, and lawfully OC'ing - while W/M provides no security for its customers. I mentioned that for W/M to not allow me to OC on their property would place my personal safety at a higher risk. I waited 2 days for a response - apparently the CS rep had to "ask around". He did reply that I should "contact thestore manager" - that this would be a matter for "in-store policy". This seems to harmonize with what has been shared previously that Wal-Mart "policy" is to follow state & local law. Judging by the varied reactions some have had when OC'ing at Wal-Marts - perhaps the "comfort level" transmitted by a person OC'ing has more to do with "policy" than anything officially published by W/M corporate. Demeanor - demeanor - demeanor (just like location-location-location ) ??? I've OC'd for about a month now (in Colorado Springs)- every increasingly in more locations - without any problems (yet).The list: Wal-Mart, Target, King-Soopers, Kohls, Goodwill Stores, Village Inn, ConocoC.S., Big Lots, Pet Smart, Super-Salad. I may be imagining it, but whether it's wishful thinking or not -(I don't know)- I have a "sense" that other customers AND store employees "seem" COMFORTED by MY being armed (???) There are some places I simply will not OC at = hospitals, doctors offices, etc. Case by case thing - for me. Sometimes , I'm just not in the mood to OC - so I CC. Again - I've lived in Colorado Springs over 2 years now - and I've YET to see anyone else OC'ing - what gives????? My wife and I just had lunch at a popular diner - filled with seniors.I was CC'ing because we had just come from a visit to a hospital. I tried to ID "somebody" even CC'ing. I've got a pretty good eye for CC due to my own experience. Zero - zip -nada. Oh well, somebody's got to do it .I am convinced that the more common OC becomes in public - the level of mischief will decrease. Persons with an inclination to "act-up" may be influenced to "walk-the-line" when they observe an armed citizenpresent - even an armed (senior) citizen.

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I OC once ina while, but prefer CC. Haven't seen many others OC in the Springs, but have heard that quite a few do. Not a problem in El Paso county with the most pro-gun Sheriff in the country!

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I OC more often when I have the 2yr old with me. His "cute factor" overrides my sidearms "man with a gun factor", It seems to put people more at ease, and be more social towards my carry instead of instantaneous panic.

It doesn't work every time, but it does work most of the time.

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Received a follow-up e-mail reply from Wal-Mart HQ at 2:23 PM today. Apparently my inquiry stimulated a bit more interest than I originally thought. DearCustomer: Sam Walton built Wal-Mart on a very simple belief -- the customer is the boss. That means we are always looking for better ways to serve the people who shop at Wal-Mart. Each comment, concern and suggestion is very important because it gives us the opportunity to improve our overall service. Rest assured that your message has been forward to the proper division where it will be reviewed and carefully considered. Thank you for your observations. It is customers like you who help us continue to offer everyday low prices and friendly service. Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. My message to Wal-Mart that is being "reviewed and carefully considered" is a summation of "Heller" opinion that carrying a firearm for the purpose of defending one's person in case of a criminal threat is a basic civil rightintitled to the same protections afforded other enumerated civil rights. Further, although concealedcarry of aside-arm is permitted under State statute, the lawful practice ofwearing (unconcealed) a holstered side-arm isthe preferred practiceof many Colorado residents. Given documented incidents of kidnapping, robbery, and homocide on the premises of Wal-Mart stores nationwide, surely your policy is to discourage criminal conduct, and facilitate rather than hinder or restricttheoptions of your customers to be safe from violent criminal predation.The lawful wearing of a side-arm by your customers not only does not constitute de facto anti-social conduct - but may very well reduce all catagories of criminal activity in your stores. I understand that the issues that I have presented will require due consideration and review in balancing your proprietorial perogatives with the safety of your customers.

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SANDCREEK wrote:

Received a follow-up e-mail reply from Wal-Mart HQ at 2:23 PM today. Apparently my inquiry stimulated a bit more interest than I originally thought. DearCustomer: Sam Walton built Wal-Mart on a very simple belief -- the customer is the boss. That means we are always looking for better ways to serve the people who shop at Wal-Mart. Each comment, concern and suggestion is very important because it gives us the opportunity to improve our overall service. Rest assured that your message has been forward to the proper division where it will be reviewed and carefully considered. Thank you for your observations. It is customers like you who help us continue to offer everyday low prices and friendly service. Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. My message to Wal-Mart that is being "reviewed and carefully considered" is a summation of "Heller" opinion that carrying a firearm for the purpose of defending one's person in case of a criminal threat is a basic civil rightintitled to the same protections afforded other enumerated civil rights. Further, although concealedcarry of aside-arm is permitted under State statute, the lawful practice ofwearing (unconcealed) a holstered side-arm isthe preferred practiceof many Colorado residents. Given documented incidents of kidnapping, robbery, and homocide on the premises of Wal-Mart stores nationwide, surely your policy is to discourage criminal conduct, and facilitate rather than hinder or restricttheoptions of your customers to be safe from violent criminal predation.The lawful wearing of a side-arm by your customers not only does not constitute de facto anti-social conduct - but may very well reduce all catagories of criminal activity in your stores. I understand that the issues that I have presented will require due consideration and review in balancing your proprietorial perogatives with the safety of your customers.

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I have OC'd in my local Wal-Mart, Target, Best Buy, and Home Depot for almost a full year with no problems. I go to wal-mart so much, that all of the employees now actually have made it thier mission to know me first hand. The current and especially the former gen. manager stated that he was very happy to have me there when I came in and to say "hi" when i did..

Target - no problems or comments from ANY employees, even the pharmacy ( where i do most of my business there )



I now OC everywhere I go. Only Exception is the post office. I dine with it on, shop with it on, Go for walks with it on...etc etc..

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SANDCREEK wrote:





never mind.. lost my 4 paragraph post, and fingers cant type it again.. sorry..

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jason_m wrote:

I have been Open Carrying for a while in Northern Colorado and have pretty much been everywhere and never had a problem. On July 24th, i stepped into the lovelandWalmart on US 34 to do some shopping. While shopping I was approached by a regular employee (didn't catch his name)who told me that carrying a handgun in colorado was illegal and that the store manager and the police where on the way. An assistant manager approached meby the name of Cary and told me that openpossesion of a Handgun was againstWalmart Policy. Iasked Cary if this "policy" was posted in the store or available forcustomers in writing. He replied by telling me that it was not posted and that he would not give me the written policy because it was privliged information. I asked to speak with the store manager and was told that he was busy and couldn't talk to me.I then proceeded to tell him thatI have been into this exactWalmart many times andasearly as the day beforeand that my handgun has never been a problem. I asked him why that was the case if the store had a policy prohibiting handguns. He did not answer my question but instead asked me to leave and told me that carrying a handgun in Colorado and in Loveland is illegal and that the police were waiting outside. I told Cary that he must be confused aboutwhat the actual law was regarding open carry. I then handed hima business card for the loveland police department and told him perhaps he should do a little research on the subject of open carry before he heckles customers in the future. I left myfull shopping cart in the middle of the aisle, walked out, anddid my shopping atKing Soopers up the roadwithmy handgun OC'd and nobody said anything.

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To help you understand what the situation is at that W/M: It ismainly staffed and visited by those d***d Kalafornians who have invaded us like the pine beetles. We really should put up a fense along the grest divide and not let any more in to Colorado.

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hey sandcreek, i also live in the springs and often open carry, my girlfriend will on occasion (sp?) oc as well and i also have not noticed anyone else oc'ing,

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I'm moving back to Aurora! (From Missouri).

I take it that CCW & OC laws are the same? :?

Thanks!

(GO BRONCOS!)

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That all depends Deep, how long have you been gone?

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Since 1997!

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Indeep-Cop wrote:

Since 1997!

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There was a major overhaul of CC law in 2003, the biggest change of which was CO went "shall-issue". To answer your question: yes, most of the CC- and OC-related laws are essentially the same as before.

OCDO has some OC-related information which you've probably seen by now. Here is a good place for up-to-date CC law information http://www.handgunlaw.us/.

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I've been OCing in the La Junta Wallmart (about once a week) since May this year. I've never had any negative reactions from staff or customers. But the first time I bought ammo there (I was CCing at the time), the sales clerk, once I had purchased the ammo, told me that she had to escort me to the exit, lol.

Since then, I have purchased ammo there maybe 10 times, while OCing without incident. Go figure. It may be that my rig, S&W .357 mag Bodyguard 649, rides deep in a OWB holster, very snug against my body, and just isn't very remarkable. Who knows? I will continue to OC there until winter, then depending on the weather, I will probably CC at times.

IMO, the anti-gunners are gonna lose this war on guns.

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libertyrules wrote:

I've been OCing in the La Junta Wallmart (about once a week) since May this year. I've never had any negative reactions from staff or customers. But the first time I bought ammo there (I was CCing at the time), the sales clerk, once I had purchased the ammo, told me that she had to escort me to the exit, lol.

Since then, I have purchased ammo there maybe 10 times, while OCing without incident. Go figure. It may be that my rig, S&W .357 mag Bodyguard 649, rides deep in a OWB holster, very snug against my body, and just isn't very remarkable. Who knows? I will continue to OC there until winter, then depending on the weather, I will probably CC at times.

IMO, the anti-gunners are gonna lose this war on guns.

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LOL! Just for kicks try a Model 29 with an 8 3/8" Barrel!

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on the wal-mart subject I have a friend that works at walmart that is going to look for the info that is reportedly "privileged"... now my experiences i have been O/Cing all around Loveland and fort Collins and have not had any problems i have been to both wal-marts (hwy 287 & mulberry) with no problems and actually went to the mulberry store today and had to talk to the store manager about an exchange while my XD-9mm 4" was on my hip and he never said a thing. As far as other places that have been O/C friendly were the Suzuki dealer on College Ave. i went and talked to them about a vehicle and even filled out a credit app while carrying with no problems(and he noticed my pistol making a cheesy comment about being ready to deal with salesmen) also no problems at the foothills fashion mall or corral ranch western wear. I have also had great experiences at many other places in the FoCo Loveland area, and would be happy to update asI have more.

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God help us all if Mr. "O" becomes president!

He wants to do away with CCW alltogether, a 500% sales tax on ammunition & and a 250% sales tax on ALL firearms. Personally, I don't think he'd be pres. for long.

Not that I wish any harm on the man.

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I have already mailed in my vote for PALIN/McPain.I've obtained all the arms and ammo I'll need for the duration or rest of my life - which ever comes first. I have also this A.M. contributed another $25 to the PALIN campaign (I'm not a Wall StFAT CAT). All of us can at least contribute $25. Go to -www. JohnMcCain.com to contribute.