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Thread: First time OC in Orange County

  1. #1
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    First off, I'd like to thank everybody in the CA forum for all their posts/insights. I've spent the past few days (literally) combing over as many of the experience & penal code postings as I could find.

    Yesterday, I finally gathered up the cahones to exercise my open carry rights.

    So, here it goes:

    Since it was my first time, I wanted it to be a short and relatively close (to my house) outing. It was around lunch time, so I holstered1 my Walther (P99 AS 9mm), headed into my garage, got in my car, and drove down the street to the local sub sandwich place.

    The sub sandwich place was right across the street from a gas station and next to a 24 hour fitness place, so there were enough people in the area. Walking into the sandwich place was uneventful. Upon entering the (surprisingly empty for lunch hour) I was greeted by an employee, and then headed to order my food.

    While I was reaching for my wallet, the cashier noticed my Walther on my hip and asked me, "On a break officer?" Not wanting to get in trouble for impersonating an officer I replied "I'm not a cop. I'm just a regular guy exercising his rights."

    "Well isn't that illegal?" he asked.

    "It's unloaded and I'm not hiding it, which makes it legal." I replied.

    "Oh, I thought it was only legal to do that with a fake one, like a BB gun." he said.

    "I'm not sure about that, but [I gave him a copy of the pamphlet posted on this forum] this should give you all the information." I added.

    After that, I paid for my sandwich, walked out the front door, and drove home. In all the experience (while scaring me poop-less) was interesting, to say the least. How many people can say that their first open carry experience resulted in a more informed person? (Okay, probably a lot. But I'm going to pretend that I'm unique.)

    A few things I'd like to add:
    • 1 My P99 was unloaded (of course) with an empty chamber and magazine in the gun.
    • I left my ammo and loaded magazine at home. I didn't want to take any chances if a LEO interaction was going to take place.

    A few questions:
    • I've attached in image of the case the gun came in. If I use the lock (as pictured) would it qualify as a "locked container" as per PC 12026?
    • Is the cashier (I put him at mid- to late-twenties) correct in saying that BB/air guns can also be openly carried like a "real steel" firearm? I checked the PC's definition of a "firearm" and it only mentions
      device, designed to be used as a weapon, from which is expelled through a barrel a projectile by the force of any explosion or other form of combustion
      A BB/air gun that uses compressed air doesn't seem to fit. Could he have actually been right?

    That's all I can think of/remember right now. I'd appreciate any comments/concerns/recommendations by any "seasoned operatives."
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Walther P99 AS 9mm
    ... loaded with Speer Gold Dot 124 gr

  2. #2
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    ntnwwnet wrote:
    A few questions:
    • I've attached in image of the case the gun came in. If I use the lock (as pictured) would it qualify as a "locked container" as per PC 12026?
    • Is the cashier (I put him at mid- to late-twenties) correct in saying that BB/air guns can also be openly carried like a "real steel" firearm? I checked the PC's definition of a "firearm" and it only mentions
      device, designed to be used as a weapon, from which is expelled through a barrel a projectile by the force of any explosion or other form of combustion
      A BB/air gun that uses compressed air doesn't seem to fit. Could he have actually been right?
    Congratulations on a sucessful open carry.

    1) The case you show in the picture appears to be fully enclosed and locked- but Im not so sure it is 'secure'. If you can open the latches and access the firearm with the lock in place, then it would not fit the definition.

    2) Carrying a BB gun or airsoft gun in public would be illegal as it fits the definition of 'imitation firearm'.. See PC 12556.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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  3. #3
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    ConditionThree wrote:
    2) Carrying a BB gun or airsoft gun in public would be illegal as it fits the definition of 'imitation firearm'.. See PC 12556.
    Ah, thanks.
    Walther P99 AS 9mm
    ... loaded with Speer Gold Dot 124 gr

  4. #4
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    ntnwwnet wrote:
    First off, I'd like to thank everybody in the CA forum for all their posts/insights. I've spent the past few days (literally) combing over as many of the experience & penal code postings as I could find.

    Yesterday, I finally gathered up the cahones (courage) to exercise my open carry rights.

    So, here it goes:

    Since it was my first time, I wanted it to be a short and relatively close (to my house) outing. It was around lunch time, so I holstered1 my Walther (P99 AS 9mm), headed into my garage, got in my car, and drove down the street to the local sub sandwich place.

    The sub sandwich place was right across the street from a gas station and next to a 24 hour fitness place, so there were enough people in the area. Walking into the sandwich place was uneventful. Upon entering the (surprisingly empty for lunch hour) I was greeted by an employee, and then headed to order my food.

    While I was reaching for my wallet, the cashier noticed my Walther on my hip and asked me, "On a break officer?" Not wanting to get in trouble for impersonating an officer I replied "I'm not a cop. I'm just a regular guy exercising his rights."

    "Well isn't that illegal?" he asked.

    "It's unloaded and I'm not hiding it, which makes it legal." I replied.

    "Oh, I thought it was only legal to do that with a fake one, like a BB gun." he said.

    "I'm not sure about that, but [I gave him a copy of the pamphlet posted on this forum] this should give you all the information." I added.

    After that, I paid for my sandwich, walked out the front door, and drove home. In all the experience (while scaring me poop-less) was interesting, to say the least. How many people can say that their first open carry experience resulted in a more informed sheeple? (Okay, probably a lot. But I'm going to pretend that I'm unique.)

    A few things I'd like to add:
    • 1 My P99 was unloaded (of course) with an empty chamber and magazine in the gun.
    • I left my ammo and loaded magazine at home. I didn't want to take any chances if a LEO interaction was going to take place.

    A few questions:
    • I've attached in image of the case the gun came in. If I use the lock (as pictured) would it qualify as a "locked container" as per PC 12026?
    • Is the cashier (I put him at mid- to late-twenties) correct in saying that BB/air guns can also be openly carried like a "real steel" firearm? I checked the PC's definition of a "firearm" and it only mentions
      device, designed to be used as a weapon, from which is expelled through a barrel a projectile by the force of any explosion or other form of combustion
      A BB/air gun that uses compressed air doesn't seem to fit. Could he have actually been right?

    That's all I can think of/remember right now. I'd appreciate any comments/concerns/recommendations by any "seasoned operatives."
    ================================================== ==========


    I left my ammo and loaded magazine at home. I didn't want to take any chances if a LEO interaction was going to take place.


    REALLY, why ???

    That's one Heavy Piece of equipment for NOT having ammo with.

    If somebody was around me WITHOUT ammo or EVEN a mag I would believe THAT would be NEGLIGENT (Homocide) if somebody got shoot/killed due to the FACT that you DID NOT have anything but some useless piece of metal. ESPECIALLY in Commifornia where they sue for ANYTHING

    BTW, congrats on your first OC experience.

    (Next time...OC WITH your ammo in your mag pouch/holder.)



    TJ



  5. #5
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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    REALLY, why ???

    That's one Heavy Piece of equipment for NOT having ammo with.

    If somebody was around me WITHOUT ammo or EVEN a mag I would believe THAT would be NEGLIGENT (Homocide) if somebody got shoot/killed due to the FACT that you DID NOT have anything but some useless piece of metal. ESPECIALLY in Commifornia where they sue for ANYTHING

    BTW, congrats on your first OC experience.

    (Next time...OC WITH your ammo in your mag pouch/holder.)



    TJ
    I was only 3 minutes away from home and wanted to be extra careful as the LEO in my city/neighborhood are not very friendly. I only got the P99 a few weeks ago, I don't yet have a holster/pouch for my extra magazine. For now, I just put the extra in my pocket.

    On the subject of magazines, does the magazine holster have to be open? (i.e., does it have to be held by friction?) Or do pouches that have a lid/cover qualify as being openly carried? I'm not really sure since the cover of a pouch pretty much hides the fact that you're carrying a loaded magazine.
    Walther P99 AS 9mm
    ... loaded with Speer Gold Dot 124 gr

  6. #6
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    ntnwwnet wrote:
    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    REALLY, why ???

    That's one Heavy Piece of equipment for NOT having ammo with.

    If somebody was around me WITHOUT ammo or EVEN a mag I would believe THAT would be NEGLIGENT (Homocide) if somebody got shoot/killed due to the FACT that you DID NOT have anything but some useless piece of metal. ESPECIALLY in Commifornia where they sue for ANYTHING

    BTW, congrats on your first OC experience.

    (Next time...OC WITH your ammo in your mag pouch/holder.)



    TJ
    I was only 3 minutes away from home and wanted to be extra careful as the LEO in my city/neighborhood are not very friendly. Not to mention that I don't yet have a holster/pouch for my extra magazines. I usually just put the extra in my pocket.

    On the subject of magazines, does the magazine holster have to be open? (i.e., does it have to be held by friction?) Or do pouches that have a lid/cover qualify as being openly carried? I'm not really sure since the cover of a pouch pretty much hides the fact that you're carrying a loaded magazine.
    In fornia I would absolutely carry the mags in an OPEN top mag holder/holster and it would have to IN the Open JUST like you Sidearm. In fornia from what I understand a mag is also considered a dangerous weapon, hence has to be Ocing that to.

    Wierd I know.

    There are MANY guys in the California Section that can get you the codes and laws for that.

    TJ

  7. #7
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    ConditionThree wrote:
    2) Carrying a BB gun or airsoft gun in public would be illegal as it fits the definition of 'imitation firearm'.. See PC 12556.
    That is interesting, however PC 12556 also states:
    (d) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to the following, when the imitation firearm is: (1) Packaged or concealed so that it is not subject to public viewing.
    I hope I'm reading that incorrectly, because that would mean that you can carry a BB/air gun concealed!
    Walther P99 AS 9mm
    ... loaded with Speer Gold Dot 124 gr

  8. #8
    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    Ya, the open carry of fake guns is illegal but concealed is ok. Concealed carry of real guns illegal but open is ok (generally).

  9. #9
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    cato wrote:
    Ya, the open carry of fake guns is illegal but concealed is ok.* Concealed carry of real guns illegal but open is ok (generally).*
    *sigh*

    If only it were the other way around in California.
    Walther P99 AS 9mm
    ... loaded with Speer Gold Dot 124 gr

  10. #10
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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    In fornia I would absolutely carry the mags in an OPEN top mag holder/holster and it would have to IN the Open JUST like you Sidearm. In fornia from what I understand a mag is also considered a dangerous weapon, hence has to be Ocing that to.

    Wierd I know.

    There are MANY guys in the California Section that can get you the codes and laws for that.

    TJ
    This is a reference to not statute, but case law. It's a questionable ruling to say the least. Also, it's a bit vague on when a 'concealed' mag would be a violation of 12025.

    Read California v. Hale, but be warned... the logic in CA court decisions may cause nausea, vomiting, or cranial explosion.
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  11. #11
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    ntnwwnet wrote:
    cato wrote:
    Ya, the open carry of fake guns is illegal but concealed is ok. Concealed carry of real guns illegal but open is ok (generally).
    *sigh*

    If only it were the other way around in California.
    You don't want that. An open carry Right will get you a concealed privilege but the other way round wouldn't work. Better to have the former.

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