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Thread: HB 4490 and SB 370 Safety Inspection, UPDATE AS OF 6-24-08

  1. #1
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Originally Posted By MichMan1:
    Here is what the House did yesterday to your constitutional right to keep and bear arms.

    legislature.mi.gov/documents/2007-2008/billanalysis/House/pdf/2007-HLA-0370-5.pdf

    It has to go back to Sen. Randy Richardville in the Senate.

    Here is his press release and list of supporting organizations. The Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners, Michigan United Conservation Clubs, National Rifle Association, Shooters Alliance for Firearm Rights and Great Lakes Shooting Sports Association support the legislation.

    www.senate.michigan.gov/gop/readarticle.asp?id=1564&District=17

    Consider writing to him and the supporting gun orginazations and saying that the burdens imposed by the revised bill are worse than those imposed under the current law. The bill is essentially a proposal to adopt computerized registration of all pistols, accessible by the police in the LIEN network at any time. The FBI NCIS law is not even this pervasive. NICS is simply a background check, this bill is full blown registration. NCIS destroys the records, here the State Police keep it forever.

    Here is a short list of the new items:
    --state police computerized database of all pistols you obtain (state police "red file")
    --you must document your purchase or face state civil infraction with possible loss of CCP
    --you must carry your purchase permit for 30 days
    --expands power of state police to seize weapon if you did not report purchase
    --Expands purchase permit requirement to pistols on loan belonging to someone
    --Requires 4 purchase permits not three and requires you to send two to the local or state police.
    http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.htm...706&page=1

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    believe me, letters have been sent.

  3. #3
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Only 1 fockin response?

    Are you people sleeping or something?

    This Bill would make it LEGAL for them to keep a FULL BLOWN DATABASE on gun owners!:what:

    READ IT! Write your legislator! Send a few emails! WAKE UP!



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    I'll be sending my emails out tomorrow when I get home from work. This is crazy what their trying to do!

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    Any idea how LeBlanc voted?

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    How does Glenn Anderson stand?

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    boom357 wrote:
    How does Glenn Anderson stand?
    He has NO spine.

    Dear Mr. Holloway:

    Thank you for your recent communication regarding Senate Bill 370 and 371. I
    appreciate your comments.

    While I certainly understand the importance of safety with all firearms, the in
    person safety inspections for hand gun owners seem to be an unnecessary step for
    owners to take. After extensive background checks and other safety hurdles,
    this bill would allow owners to provide documentation via mail of their
    purchasing agreements and completed licenses. The bill still provides certain
    requirements and prohibitions which are intended to keep citizens safe. This
    legislation would also save State and Local Governments significant revenue, at
    a time when local governments all over the State are experiencing revenue
    shortfalls.

    Recently, I supported both pieces of legislation on the Senate floor.

    Thank you again for taking the time to write and share your thoughts on this
    issue. Should you have any questions or concerns in the future please do not
    hesitate to contact me.

    Sincerely,
    Glenn S. Anderson

    Michigan State Senator
    6th District


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    Done...

  9. #9
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    I sent this email to these Reps

    senacropsey@senate.michigan.gov, senacropsey@senate.michigan.gov , senrichardville@senate.michigan.gov , senasanborn@senate.michigan.gov , senbpatterson@senate.michigan.gov , senwkuipers@senate.michigan.gov , senrkahn@senate.michigan.gov , senrjelinek@senate.michigan.gov , senmjansen@senate.michigan.gov , senjgilbert@senate.michigan.gov , tonyaschuitmaker@house.mi.gov , davidlaw@house.mi.gov , kevinelsenheimer@house.mi.gov , johnstakoe@house.mi.gov , rickjones@house.mi.gov , toryrocca@house.mi.gov


    The Honorable Senator,

    As a Westland resident and homeowner I concur with Kerry Morgan's assessment of
    what this
    legislation has become - full blown centralized computerized registration. We
    all know or should beware of registration because with registration comes the
    potential for confiscation.

    It's happened before in history and will happen again if we let it.

    It matters not, whether we are a Democrat or a Republican for this bill smacks
    of 1935 Germany. We are not Germans but rather Americans and thus should act
    like it.

    To be American is to love freedom. Freedom to go about your daily life without
    having to show someone your "papers". Freedom to be secure in your life and
    personal
    effects. Freedom to exercise self evident rights. Freedom without governmental
    oppression.

    It is my opinion and position that the substitute bill is no longer in the best
    interests of any freedom loving, law abiding American and I object to it and
    hereby oppose it for the following reason and for the reasons Kerry has pointed out;

    Entry of purchased pistols into the LEIN database which is generally reserved
    for criminal background. I don't want this information in LEIN where any average
    John Q. Law can inquire about it. We all know inquiries are run on the LEIN
    system for other than lawful purposes by people who want information on people.
    This has happened and I don't want people accessing how many guns I own short of
    a court order - and I don't want it to be an easy process. Looking up green
    cards manually as the result of a criminal investigation suits me fine.

    I don't want these new intrusions into my sovereignty and my Constitutional
    rights as a free citizen of the United States of America and I reject this
    legislation as written as I would expect you to also.

    Thank you for taking the time to read this.

    --
    Respectfully,

    Douglas Holloway







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    With Anderson replying with that trash, we know how his clone - LeBlanc - voted.

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    They should both be ashamed

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    Been following the issues and the site for quite some time, just now registering. Delighted to be here.

    Do I understand that the proposed legislation requires a LICENSE to own, transport, carry.........even OPEN CARRY a pistol? Is this in ADDITION tonow having our pistols registered? I'm rapidly becoming of the opinion that this is substantially WORSE than what we have now. Any attorney's out there willing to comment on the proposal? WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON?

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    Welcome, defcon. Please edit your profile by using the dropdown for location.

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    I offer my apologies. Michigan citizen and Constitutional originalist. A label scary to some members of "my" own government.

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    defcon1 wrote:
    Been following the issues and the site for quite some time, just now registering. Delighted to be here.

    Do I understand that the proposed legislation requires a LICENSE to own, transport, carry.........even OPEN CARRY a pistol? Is this in ADDITION tonow having our pistols registered? I'm rapidly becoming of the opinion that this is substantially WORSE than what we have now. Any attorney's out there willing to comment on the proposal? WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON?
    Honestly, I don't think it will change much. You already need to get the license to purchase, this just makes it into a license to purchase and possess. Carrying around the proof of ownership for 30 days sucks, and I don't know whether or not the entry into the electronic system is anything new.

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    Rogue9er wrote:
    defcon1 wrote:
    Been following the issues and the site for quite some time, just now registering. Delighted to be here.

    Do I understand that the proposed legislation requires a LICENSE to own, transport, carry.........even OPEN CARRY a pistol? Is this in ADDITION tonow having our pistols registered? I'm rapidly becoming of the opinion that this is substantially WORSE than what we have now. Any attorney's out there willing to comment on the proposal? WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON?
    Honestly, I don't think it will change much. You already need to get the license to purchase, this just makes it into a license to purchase and possess. Carrying around the proof of ownership for 30 days sucks, and I don't know whether or not the entry into the electronic system is anything new.
    This requirement is only for those who do not have a CPL.

    Oops!!! My bad.



    Require persons licensed to carry a concealed weapon to keep the required sales record with them for first 30 days after the purchase of a pistol, but not afterward.

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    Ok guys, I need some help here. I would like to cover this a little more in depth on my show. I can't find the thread that shows it was passed and what the results are. If someone can PM me or post the results in "plain english" (I don't understand LEGALISE too well) I would appreciate it.

    Thanks, Jerry

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    WARCHILD wrote:
    Ok guys, I need some help here. I would like to cover this a little more in depth on my show. I can't find the thread that shows it was passed and what the results are. If someone can PM me or post the results in "plain english" (I don't understand LEGALISE too well) I would appreciate it.

    Thanks, Jerry
    The law as presented to the Governor:


    STATE OF MICHIGAN 94TH LEGISLATURE REGULAR SESSION OF 2008

    Introduced by Reps. Opsommer, Sheltrown, Stahl, Miller, Palsrok, Hoogendyk, Meekhof, Nitz, LeBlanc, Mayes, Meltzer, Acciavatti, Agema, Angerer, Ball, Booher, Brandenburg, Brown, Byrum, Casperson, Caswell, Farrah, Gaffney, Garfield, Gonzales, Hammel, Hammon, Hansen, ldenbrand, Huizenga,Hune, Rick Jones, Knollenberg, Lahti, Marleau, Melton, Moolenaar, Moss, Pastor, Pavlov, Pearce,Polidori, Rocca, Sak, Schuitmaker, Shaffer, Sheen, Simpson, Spade and War

    ENROLLED HOUSE BILL No. 4490


    AN ACT to amend 1927 PA 372, entitled “An act to regulate and license the selling, purchasing, possessing, and carrying of certain firearms and gas ejecting devices; to prohibit the buying, selling, or carrying of certain firearms and gas ejecting devices without a license or other authorization; to provide for the forfeiture of firearms under certain circumstances; to provide for penalties and remedies; to provide immunity from civil liability under certain circumstances; to prescribe the powers and duties of certain state and local agencies; to prohibit certain conduct against individuals who apply for or receive a license to carry a concealed pistol; to make appropriations; to prescribe certain conditions for the appropriations; and to repeal all acts and parts of acts inconsistent with this act,” by amending sections 2, 12, and 12b (MCL 28.422, 28.432, and 28.432b), section 2 as amended by 2004 PA 101, section 12 as amended by 2006 PA 75, and section 12b as added by 1982 PA 182; and to repeal acts and parts of acts.


    The People of the State of Michigan enact:


    Sec. 2. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not purchase, carry, possess, or transport a pistol in this state without first having obtained a license for the pistol as prescribed in this section.


    (2) A person who brings a pistol into this state who is on leave from active duty with the armed forces of the United States or who has been discharged from active duty with the armed forces of the United States shall obtain a license for the pistol within 30 days after his or her arrival in this state.


    (3) The commissioner or chief of police of a city, township, or village police department that issues licenses to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistols, or his or her duly authorized deputy, or the sheriff or his or her duly authorized deputy, in the parts of a county not included within a city, township, or village having an organized police department, in discharging the duty to issue licenses shall with due speed and diligence issue licenses to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistols to qualified applicants residing within the city, village, township, or county, as applicable unless he or she has probable cause to believe that the applicant would be a threat to himself or herself or to other individuals, or would commit an offense with the pistol that would violate a law of this or another state or of the United States. An applicant is qualified if all of the following circumstances exist:


    (a) The person is not subject to an order or disposition for which he or she has received notice and an opportunity for a hearing, and which was entered into the law enforcement information network pursuant to any of the following:


    (
    i) Section 464a(1) of the mental health code, 1974 PA 258, MCL 330.1464a.


    (
    ii) Section 5107 of the estates and protected individuals code, 1998 PA 386, MCL 700.5107, or section 444a of former 1978 PA 642.


    (
    iii) Section 2950(10) of the revised judicature act of 1961, 1961 PA 236, MCL 600.2950.


    (
    iv) Section 2950a(7) of 1961 PA 236, MCL 600.2950a.


    (
    v) Section 14 of 1846 RS 84, MCL 552.14.


    (
    vi) Section 6b(5) of chapter V of the code of criminal procedure, 1927 PA 175, MCL 765.6b, if the order has a condition imposed under section 6b(3) of chapter V of 1927 PA 175, MCL 765.6b.


    (vii) Section 16b(1) of chapter IX of 1927 PA 175, MCL 769.16b.


    (b) The person is 18 years of age or older or, if the seller is licensed pursuant to section 923 of title 18 of the United States Code, 18 USC 923, is 21 years of age or older.


    (c) The person is a citizen of the United States and is a legal resident of this state.


    (d) A felony charge against the person is not pending at the time of application.


    (e) The person is not prohibited from possessing, using, transporting, selling, purchasing, carrying, shipping, receiving, or distributing a firearm under section 224f of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.224f.


    (f) The person has not been adjudged insane in this state or elsewhere unless he or she has been adjudged restored to sanity by court order.


    (g) The person is not under an order of involuntary commitment in an inpatient or outpatient setting due to mental illness.


    (h) The person has not been adjudged legally incapacitated in this state or elsewhere. This subdivision does not apply to a person who has had his or her legal capacity restored by order of the court.


    (i) The person correctly answers 70% or more of the questions on a basic pistol safety review questionnaire approved by the basic pistol safety review board and provided to the individual free of charge by the licensing authority. If the person fails to correctly answer 70% or more of the questions on the basic pistol safety review questionnaire, the licensing authority shall inform the person of the questions he or she answered incorrectly and allow the person to attempt to complete another basic pistol safety review questionnaire. The person shall not be allowed to attempt to complete more than 2 basic pistol safety review questionnaires on any single day. The licensing authority shall allow the person to attempt to complete the questionnaire during normal business hours on the day the person applies for his or her license.


    (4) Applications for licenses under this section shall be signed by the applicant under oath upon forms provided by the director of the department of state police. Licenses to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistols shall be executed in quadruplicate upon forms provided by the director of the department of state police and shall be signed by the licensing authority. Four copies of the license shall be delivered to the applicant by the licensing authority. A license is void unless used within 10 days after the date it is issued.


    (5) If an individual purchases or otherwise acquires a pistol, the seller shall fill out the license forms describing the pistol, together with the date of sale or acquisition, and sign his or her name in ink indicating that the pistol was sold to or otherwise acquired by the purchaser. The purchaser shall also sign his or her name in ink indicating the purchase or other acquisition of the pistol from the seller. The seller may retain a copy of the license as a record of the transaction. The purchaser shall receive 3 copies of the license. The purchaser shall return 2 copies of the license to the licensing authority within 10 days after the date the pistol is purchased or acquired. The return of the copies to the licensing authority may be made in person or may be made by first-class mail or certified mail sent within the 10-day period to the proper address of the licensing authority. A purchaser who fails to comply with the requirements of this subsection is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be fined not more than $250.00. If a purchaser is found responsible for a state civil infraction under this subsection, the court shall notify the department of state police of that determination.


    (6) Within 48 hours after receiving the license copies returned under subsection (5), the licensing authority shall forward 1 copy of the license to the department of state police. The licensing authority shall retain the other copy of the license as an official record for not less than 6 years. Within 10 days after receiving the license copies returned under subsection (5), the licensing authority shall electronically enter the information into the pistol entry database as required by the department of state police if it has the ability to electronically enter that information. If the licensing authority does not have that ability, the licensing authority shall provide that information to the department of state police in a manner otherwise required by the department of state police. Any licensing authority that provided pistol descriptions to the department of state police under former section 9 of this act shall continue to provide pistol descriptions to the department of state police under this subsection. The purchaser has the right to obtain a copy of the information placed in the pistol entry database under this subsection to verify the accuracy of that information. The licensing authority may charge a fee not to exceed $1.00 for the cost of providing the copy. The licensee may carry, use, possess, and transport the pistol for 30 days beginning on the date of purchase or acquisition only while he or she is in possession of his or her copy of the license. However, the person is not required to have the license in his or her possession while carrying, using, possessing, or transporting the pistol after this period. (7) This section does not apply to the purchase of pistols from wholesalers by dealers regularly engaged in the business of selling pistols at retail, or to the sale, barter, or exchange of pistols kept as relics or curios not made for modern ammunition or permanently deactivated. This section does not prevent the transfer of ownership of pistols that are inherited if the license to purchase is approved by the commissioner or chief of police, sheriff, or their authorized deputies, and signed by the personal representative of the estate or by the next of kin having authority to dispose of the pistol.


    (8) The licensing authority shall provide a basic pistol safety brochure to each applicant for a license under this section before the applicant answers the basic pistol safety review questionnaire. A basic pistol safety brochure shall contain, but is not limited to providing, information on all of the following subjects:


    (a) Rules for safe handling and use of pistols.


    (b) Safe storage of pistols.


    (c) Nomenclature and description of various types of pistols.


    (d) The responsibilities of owning a pistol.


    (9) The basic pistol safety brochure shall be supplied in addition to the safety pamphlet required by section 9b.


    (10) The basic pistol safety brochure required in subsection (8) shall be produced by a national nonprofit membership organization that provides voluntary pistol safety programs that include training individuals in the safe handling and use of pistols.


    (11) A person who forges any matter on an application for a license under this section is guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 4 years or a fine of not more than $2,000.00, or both.


    (12) A licensing authority shall implement this section during all of the licensing authority’s normal business hours and shall set hours for implementation that allow an applicant to use the license within the time period set forth in subsection (6).


    Sec. 12. (1) Section 2 does not apply to any of the following:


    (a) A police or correctional agency of the United States or of this state or any subdivision of this state.


    (b) The United States army, air force, navy, or marine corps.


    (c) An organization authorized by law to purchase or receive weapons from the United States or from this state.


    (d) The national guard, armed forces reserves, or other duly authorized military organization.


    (e) A member of an entity or organization described in subdivisions (a) through (d) for a pistol while engaged in the course of his or her duties with that entity or while going to or returning from those duties.


    (f) A United States citizen holding a license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by another state.


    (g) The regular and ordinary transportation of a pistol as merchandise by an authorized agent of a person licensed to manufacture firearms or a licensed dealer.


    (h) Purchasing, owning, carrying, possessing, using, or transporting an antique firearm. As used in this subdivision, “antique firearm” means that term as defined in section 231a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.231a.


    (i) An individual carrying, possessing, using, or transporting a pistol belonging to another individual, if the other individual’s possession of the pistol is authorized by law and the individual carrying, possessing, using, or transporting the pistol has obtained a license under section 5b to carry a concealed pistol or is exempt from licensure as provided in section 12a.


    (2) The amendatory act that added subsection (1)(h) shall be known and may be cited as the “Janet Kukuk act”.


    Sec. 12b. Section 2 does not apply to a signaling device that is approved by the United States coast guard pursuant to regulations issued under 46 USC 481, or under 46 USC 1454. Enacting section 1. Section 9 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.429, is repealed. Enacting section 2. This amendatory act takes effect 180 days after the date it is enacted into law.


    Enacting section 3. This amendatory act does not take effect unless all of the following bills of the 94th Legislature are enacted into law: (a) Senate Bill No. 370. (b) House Bill No. 4491.


    This act is ordered to take immediate effect. Clerk of the House of Representatives Secretary of the Senate Approved Governor


    AN ANALYSES OF THE BILL:

    Page 1 of 2 4490&4491/0708

    PISTOL RECORDS; SAFETY INSPECTIONS H.B. 4490 (S-2) & 4491 (S-1):

    FLOOR SUMMARY

    House Bill 4490 (Substitute S-2 as reported by the Committee of the Whole)

    House Bill 4491 (Substitute S-1 as reported by the Committee of the Whole)

    Sponsor: Representative Paul Opsommer (S.B. 4490)

    Representative Joel Sheltrown (S.B. 4491)

    House Committee: Tourism, Outdoor Recreation, and Natural Resources

    Senate Committee: Judiciary

    CONTENT

    House Bill 4490 (S-2) would amend the handgun licensure Act to do the following:

    -- Repeal Section 9, which requires a person within Michigan who owns or comes into possession of a pistol to present it for a safety inspection to the commissioner or chief of police of the city, township, or village, or to the sheriff of the county, where the person resides.

    -- Require a purchaser to return two copies of a completed license to a licensing authority within 10 days after the date the pistol was purchased (as currently required) or acquired.

    -- Allow a purchaser to return the copies of the license to the licensing authority in person or by first-class or certified mail sent within the 10-day period.

    -- Provide that a purchaser who failed to return copies of the license would be responsible for a State civil infraction and could be fined up to $250.

    -- Require the court to notify the State Police of a State civil infraction determination.

    -- Allow a licensee to carry, use, possess, and transport the pistol only while he or she was in possession of his or her copy of the license, for 30 days beginning on the date of purchase or acquisition.

    -- Require licensing authorities with the ability to enter data electronically into the pistol entry database to enter license information required by the Department of State Police into the database; and require those without the ability to enter data electronically to provide that information to the State Police in a manner required by the Department.

    -- Allow purchasers to obtain a copy of the information in the database to verify its accuracy.

    -- Require licensing authorities to continue to provide to the State Police pistol descriptions required under Section 9 of the Act.

    -- Prohibit a person from possessing a pistol in this State without first having obtained a license for it.

    House Bill 4491 (S-1) would repeal Section 228 of the Michigan Penal Code, which makes it is a misdemeanor punishable by up to 90 days' imprisonment and/or a fine of up to $100 to fail to have a pistol inspected as required under Section 9 of the handgun licensure Act.

    The bills are tie-barred to each other and to Senate Bill 370, and would take effect 180 days after the date they were enacted. (Senate Bill 370 (H-4), as passed by the House, would amend the handgun licensure Act to require an individual licensed to carry a concealed weapon who purchased or otherwise acquired a pistol, to forward two copies of the sales record to the police department of the city, village, or township, or to the sheriff of the county, in which the purchaser resided within 10 days following the purchase or accquisition;

    and require the police department or sheriff to forward a copy to the State Police within 48 hours after receiving the copies. The bill also would exempt a State court judge or a retired State court judge from provisions under which concealed pistols may not be carried on certain premises (no-carry zones). In addition, the bill would include certain motor carrier officers and security personnel employed by the State as peace officers, in provisions requiring individuals to have their license to carry with them when carrying a concealed

    pistol, to show their license to a peace officer upon request, and to disclose that they are carrying a concealed pistol when stopped by a peace officer; and authorizing peace officers to seize pistols carried in violation of these requirements.)

    MCL 28.422 et al. (H.B. 4490) Legislative Analyst: Craig Laurie

    750.224b & 750.231a (S.B. 4491)

    FISCAL IMPACT

    House Bill 4490 (S-2) would result in minor fiscal savings for local and State law

    enforcement agencies by reducing administrative duties concerning heinspection of firearms and associated record-keeping, in an amount that cannot be determined.

    House Bill 4491 (S-1) would have an indeterminate fiscal impact on local government. There are no data to indicate how many offenders will be convicted of failing to have a pistol inspected as currently required, absent the bill. To the extent that the bill would result in decreased convictions, local governments would incur decreased costs of incarceration in local facilities, which vary by county. Public libraries would receive less penal fine revenue.

    Date Completed: 6-27-08 Fiscal Analyst: Bruce Baker

    Lindsay Hollander

    floorhb4490 Analysis available @ http://www.michiganlegislature.org

    This analysis was prepared by nonpartisan Senate staff for use by the Senate in its deliberations and does not

    constitute an official statement of legislative intent.





    Special offer - buy a copy of "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" and get a free copy of "Bond of Unseen Blood" Go to http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    WARCHILD wrote:
    SNIP:...I can't find the thread that shows it was passed and what the results are.
    Did it pass? I thought it was STILL in the consideration stages.

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    in the propsed bill 4490, it also states that ONLY US CITIZENS would be legally able to purchase firearms!!!! This is contrary to the current law which allows Permanent Residents (Green card holders) to also purchase firearms and obtain a MI CPL... this new bill would make it illegal for me to own ANY FIREARMS and/or maintain my MI CPL!!!!!

    In essence, as a permanent resident my "human rights" would be trampled upon and I would, by law, not be able to defend my family (wife and both kids = 100 % born and raised american!!!) w/ a firearm!!!! This is a bunch of *BUNK*!!!! :X


    IF I am reading and/or understanding this wrong, PLEASE let me know!!! Else, the "Mole's" office is going to be getting a call from me in the morning!



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    TireFryer wrote:
    in the propsed bill 4490, it also states that ONLY US CITIZENS would be legally able to purchase firearms!!!! This is contrary to the current law which allows Permanent Residents (Green card holders) to also purchase firearms and obtain a MI CPL... this new bill would make it illegal for me to own ANY FIREARMS and/or maintain my MI CPL!!!!!

    In essence, as a permanent resident my "human rights" would be trampled upon and I would, by law, not be able to defend my family (wife and both kids = 100 % born and raised american!!!) w/ a firearm!!!! This is a bunch of *BUNK*!!!! :X


    IF I am reading and/or understanding this wrong, PLEASE let me know!!! Else, the "Mole's" office is going to be getting a call from me in the morning!


    IANAL, but, IMO, I think you are good to go.

    (c) The person is a citizen of the United States and is a legal resident of this state.

    Keyword is "and", meaning, both must exist. Make your contacts just to be sure.




  22. #22
    Regular Member
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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    (c) The person is a citizen of the United States and is a legal resident of this state.

    Keyword is "and", meaning, both must exist. Make your contacts just to be sure.


    When I read the above stated condition, what registers in my mind is this:
    a) YOu must be a US Citizen
    AND
    b) You must be a legal resident of MI...not of OH, IL, NY, MA, FL, ... in other words, you must have an established residency in MI paying utilities, taxes, blah, blah, blah...

    Hence, even though I would be fulfilling the 2nd requirement, the 1st requirement trumps to 2nd!!

    Will post response from Mole's office later today!

  23. #23
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    TireFryer wrote:
    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    (c) The person is a citizen of the United States and is a legal resident of this state.

    Keyword is "and", meaning, both must exist. Make your contacts just to be sure.


    When I read the above stated condition, what registers in my mind is this:
    a) YOu must be a US Citizen
    AND
    b) You must be a legal resident of MI...not of OH, IL, NY, MA, FL, ... in other words, you must have an established residency in MI paying utilities, taxes, blah, blah, blah...

    Hence, even though I would be fulfilling the 2nd requirement, the 1st requirement trumps to 2nd!!

    Will post response from Mole's office later today!
    The solution is simple. Become a citizen.

  24. #24
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    TireFryer wrote:
    SpringerXDacp wrote:

    (c) The person is a citizen of the United States and is a legal resident of this state.


    Keyword is "and", meaning, both must exist. Make your contacts just to be sure.


    When I read the above stated condition, what registers in my mind is this:
    a) YOu must be a US Citizen
    AND
    b) You must be a legal resident of MI...not of OH, IL, NY, MA, FL, ... in other words, you must have an established residency in MI paying utilities, taxes, blah, blah, blah...

    Hence, even though I would be fulfilling the 2nd requirement, the 1st requirement trumps to 2nd!!

    Will post response from Mole's office later today!
    Even if this is true, it should not affect previous purchases and any CPL you might have. It MAY apply to future purchases. I'm just not that clear on the new law as a whole so this is just an opinion.

    In regard to this new law (If the Gov signs it.) this was posted on the MGO site. You may want to PM this person and ask your question. He seemed to be very involed in passing this law.

    "Guys and gals. By now it's all done and the need to return for a physical safety inspection will soon be a thing of the past.

    I've been along for the ride on every step of these Bills. It's a good package. Despite what a few people may have circulated on listservs or posted on message boards, these Bills add no new registration, no new license, add no new data base and add no new burdens. Pistol registration has been codified into state law since the 30's. A database of pistol registrations has been kept by local PD's and the MSP for years and years. While I've continued to hear that registration is illegal in MI, I have never found anyone who can show me the MCL that says so. Unless you can point to the specific line in the MCL, please don't post that it is.

    First, SB 371 is gone. SB 370 and HB 4490 and HB 4491 have passed and I have confirmation that the Governor WILL sign them when they get to her desk. This is what we get:

    A non CPL holder will need a Purchase Permit. That is the license to buy and possess a specific pistol. Nothing new here. Procedure stays the same. A 4th part will be added to mail in to the local PD. You will have the choice of mailing it in or taking it in in person. Those with good PD's like the Hillsdale County Sheriff will get them in 5 minutes 24/7. Those is crappy jurisdictions will wait for weeks. The AG says they can't do that but that's a fight for another day.

    CPL holders will use the RI-60. A 4th part will be added to mail in to the local PD. You will have the choice of mailing it in or taking it in in person. That is your registration.

    Local PD's will have the choice of entering them directly or sending them in to MSP for them to enter into the database. Nothing new here. Same procedure.

    The buyer will now be responsible for sending in a copy of the form used PP or RI-60 to the MSP. The seller retains a copy and has some assurance that the pistol will be taken out of their name as there is a penalty for the buyer failing to register the pistol in their name. the buyer keeps a copy for themselves and mails the final one to their local PD.

    Green Cards are gone. The buyer is required to keep their copy with the pistol for 30 days after which they may destroy it, use it for wall paper or keep it in a safe place. There is no requirement to retain it after 30 days. This forever clears up the need or lack there of to have a copy of your green card with the gun. You won't need anything after 30 days.

    Super Trucker, your problem and those of about 60% of the people who contact us about local PD's are over. No more limited hours, no more keeping guns overnight or for two or four days. No ham handed idiots who scratch, drop, dry fire, slam slides or mar finishes.

    A huge new incentive is created for people to get a CPL because now they can buy a pistol and never have to put up with waiting periods or limited hours.

    Big win here all. The biggest loss we took is having to keep a copy of the form with the gun for 30 days. Other than that, nothing new.

    We also owe Senator Richardville a big thanks as he personally told the House that the Judges Exemption from the CEZ's was DOA in the Senate. He and his staff negotiated getting the Bills passed after the Senate stripped that out. Rep. Opsommer also gets a big pat on the back. He wanted to end registration completely. When he saw that there was no way to do that, rather than just let the Bill die, he worked to find a compromise to help gun owners without any new burdens.

    Finally, to the small group of people who tried to kill these Bills, you have no idea the damage your efforts created within the Capital."



    Brad Benzing
    NRA Life(Patron)Member
    SAFR Legislative Liason
    Michigan
    Certified Hunter Safety Educator
    RSO

    Special offer - buy a copy of "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" and get a free copy of "Bond of Unseen Blood" Go to http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  25. #25
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Sailorwatson wrote:
    TireFryer wrote:
    SpringerXDacp wrote:

    (c) The person is a citizen of the United States and is a legal resident of this state.


    Keyword is "and", meaning, both must exist. Make your contacts just to be sure.


    When I read the above stated condition, what registers in my mind is this:
    a) YOu must be a US Citizen
    AND
    b) You must be a legal resident of MI...not of OH, IL, NY, MA, FL, ... in other words, you must have an established residency in MI paying utilities, taxes, blah, blah, blah...

    Hence, even though I would be fulfilling the 2nd requirement, the 1st requirement trumps to 2nd!!

    Will post response from Mole's office later today!
    The solution is simple. Become a citizen.
    Glib as always.
    Special offer - buy a copy of "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" and get a free copy of "Bond of Unseen Blood" Go to http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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