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Thread: My encounter at 16

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    I was thinking last night about an event I had when I was 16, and I thought I'd share it with everyone and get a few responses from people with gun safety on their mind.


    I was 16, and just got my drivers license; my brother was seeing this girl that lived in the next town over. In order to get to this other town you had to drive through the country for 10 miles. Both towns are very safe places to live in they haven't had a violent crime in years during this time.

    Well I on the way back from hanging out with this girl my brother had a thing for I ended up hitting some black ice (it was winter time) and loosing control of my truck and slamming it side ways into a ditch. My brother was fine but I got knocked out for a minute and had a big cut above my eye from hitting the steering wheel so I was kinda out of it.

    This happened at about 8:30pm on a Friday and we had no cell phone at the time, and we were out in the middle of no where. I was just gonna walk home but my brother insisted on going to a house to call the police because I was banged up real good and he was worried I got hurt worse then I was telling him.

    So we walked up to this house and gently knocked on the door. About 2 minutes later an older guy about in his 50's opened the door with a major attitude problem. He said what the hell do you want? As my brother started to explain to him what happened (the guy could see my truck smashed and in the ditch it was only 60 yards from his front porch granted) when they guys says can't you see what I have? Me and my brother didn't see anything at first we just wanted to use a phone to get some help. I looked at the mans hand and he had a loaded pistol with his finger on the trigger pointed right at us! Needless to say I was instantly pissed off on how this man was treating us like criminals even after we told our story. Now everyone needs to remember I was just in a car accident and had blood pouring out of the cut I had above my eye which made it real hard to see.

    Just then his wife who was a very nice person started yelling at the guy to put that damn gun away their just kids that are hurt asking for help! The lady let me use her phone, and my mom came and picked us up; we walked down to my totaled truck to wait for her. We told our home what happened and she snapped and called the police not just about the accident but about that nut job old man pulling and point a gun at us.

    Now everyone needs to remember this is not a place where there was crime and we were just kids being very polite to these people.

    This is were it gets kinda weird ; the police show up and we tell them about the old man.. The cop didn't even go to that guys house to speak with him about what he did.

    I can understand having a pistol ready in case its needed, but pointing a loaded firearm at people with your finger on the trigger when they are not showing to be a threat is messed up! I think about this incident all the time and think what if?

    So the point of this little story is there is a time and place to bring a firearm into play, and trust me this was not one of them! This guy broke every gun safety rule I've ever learned.

    To some it may sound like this guy had a good reason to have his gun out, but if you were there you'd realize he had no excuse because we were not a threat to this guy at all. We simply needed to use a phone to call for help.

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    And the second you tried to draw on a guy with a gun pointed at you, bang, you're dead. He already has his ready to go, it's not a winnable situation.

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    Aran wrote:
    And the second you tried to draw on a guy with a gun pointed at you, bang, you're dead. He already has his ready to go, it's not a winnable situation.

    I explained what I would have done wrong; I would not have drawn my pistol on him, but I would have stepped to the side where his pistol wasn't directly pointed at me then I would pulled out mine if the situation permitted me to do so. You gotta remember I wasn't the one attempting to use deadly force he was. There was plenty of room to get out of the line of fire.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    quote>>Pointing a pistol at me now wouldn't be a good idea especially seeing I would see this as a threat against my life!<<quote





    You go up to someone's home, and he has a pistol, so you bring yours out and point it at him and you'll be a guest of the state for a long, long time. You were on his property, at his front door, he didn't know you from Adam. While he perhaps should have kept the gun out of sight--as I've done in similar circumstances, although it was at 3AM, he was completely within his rights to have the weapon. Your comment that you would pull a gun on someone while on his property is the dumbest thing I've heard on this forum. Stay off his property, or if you choose to go, keep the gun to yourself or you'll wind up dead, and with full justification, or in jail. If someone came to my door, and I had a pistol, then for WHATEVER reason drew his own, I wouldn't have to call the cops. Just the Cornoner. "Dead witnesses offer slight rebuttal."
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Gunslinger wrote:
    quote>>Pointing a pistol at me now wouldn't be a good idea especially seeing I would see this as a threat against my life!<<quote





    You go up to someone's home, and he has a pistol, so you bring yours out and point it at him and you'll be a guest of the state for a long, long time. You were on his property, at his front door, he didn't know you from Adam. While he perhaps should have kept the gun out of sight--as I've done in similar circumstances, although it was at 3AM, he was completely within his rights to have the weapon. Your comment that you would pull a gun on someone while on his property is the dumbest thing I've heard on this forum. Stay off his property, or if you choose to go, keep the gun to yourself or you'll wind up dead, and with full justification, or in jail. If someone came to my door, and I had a pistol, then for WHATEVER reason drew his own, I wouldn't have to call the cops. Just the Cornoner. "Dead witnesses offer slight rebuttal."
    I edited my story once I read it I realized I said things wrong. Once again this was taken the wrong way I wasn't trying to say I would have pulled my own pistol on the guy. And I didn't at all say I would have drawn my pistol not sure where you got that from. Yes he has a right to defend his home I wont argue with that at all, but he didn't have a right to pull a loaded gun and point it at me with his finger on the trigger. Knocking on a persons door is not an act of violence. With the comment I made I carry my own pistol now I was trying to say and didn't explain myself real well which I should have. What I was trying to say is now I understand why this man had a gun because now I carry my own and now it would be a different story because I understand the world better then I did then. And to comment on he had full justification, just because someone is on your property does not give you the right to shoot them. Now if I was to pull a gun on his property then yes he would be justified, but not just because I standing on his porch and knocked on his door.

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    adam40cal wrote:
    I edited my story once I read it I realized I said things wrong. Once again this was taken the wrong way I wasn't trying to say I would have pulled my own pistol on the guy. And I didn't at all say I would have drawn my pistol not sure where you got that from. Yes he has a right to defend his home I wont argue with that at all, but he didn't have a right to pull a loaded gun and point it at me with his finger on the trigger. Knocking on a persons door is not an act of violence. With the comment I made I carry my own pistol now I was trying to say and didn't explain myself real well was I understand things better now and would understand why the man had a gun I wasn't trying to say because I'd pull my gun.
    x2

    I can understand him having a gun when somebody unexpectedly knocks on his door at 3 AM, but he was in no way justified in pointing the damn thing at you. IMO, as long as you're not breaking the law, whenever someone points a gun at you it's an invitation for you to return the favor.

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    adam40cal wrote:
    Gunslinger wrote:
    quote>>Pointing a pistol at me now wouldn't be a good idea especially seeing I would see this as a threat against my life!<<quote





    You go up to someone's home, and he has a pistol, so you bring yours out and point it at him and you'll be a guest of the state for a long, long time. You were on his property, at his front door, he didn't know you from Adam. While he perhaps should have kept the gun out of sight--as I've done in similar circumstances, although it was at 3AM, he was completely within his rights to have the weapon. Your comment that you would pull a gun on someone while on his property is the dumbest thing I've heard on this forum. Stay off his property, or if you choose to go, keep the gun to yourself or you'll wind up dead, and with full justification, or in jail. If someone came to my door, and I had a pistol, then for WHATEVER reason drew his own, I wouldn't have to call the cops. Just the Cornoner. "Dead witnesses offer slight rebuttal."
    I edited my story once I read it I realized I said things wrong. Once again this was taken the wrong way I wasn't trying to say I would have pulled my own pistol on the guy. And I didn't at all say I would have drawn my pistol not sure where you got that from. Yes he has a right to defend his home I wont argue with that at all, but he didn't have a right to pull a loaded gun and point it at me with his finger on the trigger. Knocking on a persons door is not an act of violence. With the comment I made I carry my own pistol now I was trying to say and didn't explain myself real well was I understand things better now and would understand why the man had a gun I wasn't trying to say because I'd pull my gun.
    Ok, I see what you're saying. He was wrong to have his finger on the trigger. But, if you are 'in' someone else's home--and the law generally extends that to the front door landing area, or back door, he has the right to defend himself, with the door open, as if you were in his house. The Castle Law in many states gives the homeowner great defense against deadly force. You, under NO circumstances, would have a defense for your use of deadly force. Not at his home unless he actually shot at you. He, on the other hand, would only have to see you armed to defend his use of deadly force. This is called "Armed trespass" and applies even if no sign posted warning you off his property. When you are armed, you forfeit the defense of "peaceful passage." That's one reason a lot of states ban loaded weapons in your car.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    MetalChris wrote:
    adam40cal wrote:
    I edited my story once I read it I realized I said things wrong. Once again this was taken the wrong way I wasn't trying to say I would have pulled my own pistol on the guy. And I didn't at all say I would have drawn my pistol not sure where you got that from. Yes he has a right to defend his home I wont argue with that at all, but he didn't have a right to pull a loaded gun and point it at me with his finger on the trigger. Knocking on a persons door is not an act of violence. With the comment I made I carry my own pistol now I was trying to say and didn't explain myself real well was I understand things better now and would understand why the man had a gun I wasn't trying to say because I'd pull my gun.
    x2

    I can understand him having a gun when somebody unexpectedly knocks on his door at 3 AM, but he was in no way justified in pointing the damn thing at you. IMO, as long as you're not breaking the law, whenever someone points a gun at you it's an invitation for you to return the favor.
    NOT on his property at or in his home. You go to jail or you go to the morgue. He has absolute right to use deadly force. You, failing his shooting at you, have none.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    This reminds me of a story I heard back when I was in Scouts. Our troop was told of a story where two youth scouts, either 16 or 17, were driving together when they noticed a pick-up truck had broken down on the side of the road. There were two men out back looking at the truck. The two scouts talked about it, and decided to stop and help the men, the thought being that there was only two of them, and if things turned nasty, they would be able to defend themselves. Well, once the scouts were out of their vehicle, and approaching the truck, two more men popped up from the bed of the truck and the four men easily overpowered the two scouts, took their money, etc....

    The point being, imagine if you're that old man. You hear a knock on the door, look out, and see one teenager with no wounds, and a second who 'appears' to be injured. You haven't spoken with them, so you don't know the situation, or what their conditions really are. You're just home alone, in the middle of no where, with your wife. Even though it's a low crime area, these could be two kids who are looking to rough you up and steal some items from you, if not worse. I don't blame the guy one bit for his actions.

    Now, you know yourself, and you know that you were not out to hurt or rob that family. You can be pissed that he answered the door with a gun pointed at you and didn't trust you right away, and I wouldn't fault you for that. But you have to consider that this guy was a complete stranger and didn't know you, so what was he supposed to do?

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    Gunslinger wrote:
    quote>>Pointing a pistol at me now wouldn't be a good idea especially seeing I would see this as a threat against my life!<<quote





    You go up to someone's home, and he has a pistol, so you bring yours out and point it at him and you'll be a guest of the state for a long, long time. You were on his property, at his front door, he didn't know you from Adam. While he perhaps should have kept the gun out of sight--as I've done in similar circumstances, although it was at 3AM, he was completely within his rights to have the weapon. Your comment that you would pull a gun on someone while on his property is the dumbest thing I've heard on this forum. Stay off his property, or if you choose to go, keep the gun to yourself or you'll wind up dead, and with full justification, or in jail. If someone came to my door, and I had a pistol, then for WHATEVER reason drew his own, I wouldn't have to call the cops. Just the Cornoner. "Dead witnesses offer slight rebuttal."
    I'm embarrassed to share a forum with you. You're insane.

    Within his rights to hold you at gunpoint for knocking on his door? Sell your guns, you're a danger to everyone around you.

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    Gunslinger wrote:
    You, under NO circumstances, would have a defense for your use of deadly force. Not at his home unless he actually shot at you...

    Even if someone let you into their house, and then suddenly decided they wanted to kill you, good luck convincing anybody it was self-defense if you somehow won the fight.

    The news headline would be: Stanger enters house, kills owner.

    If someone opens up their door and points a gun at you, chances are they aren't going to shoot you unless they think you are doing something bad.(Not very many people just decide to shoot people thatcome up to theirdoor for the fun of it.)Its not the same as if someone on the street points a gun at you, where it is to kill you or rob you. In this case, they are pulling the gun for their own self-preservation.

    The finger on the trigger and the gun pointed at you wasn'tgood at allfrom a gun safety standpoint, but if he thought you were there to hurt his familyhe probably didn't care much about your safety.Still, bad assessment on his part. I would never point a gun at someone unless I felt they were an immediate threat to life.

    Your best chance of survival in such a situation is to make sure that they realize you aren't a threat,and perhaps tocalmlyleave. I doubt a homeowner would shoot you in the back unless you were running off with their property.

    In someone elses house there is no way I would draw on them. If it really came to a point where you needed to defend yourself against someone on their own property (maybe they lured you there specifically to kill you andtrappedyou in a room.) I would consider relocating to some mountain cave in a foreign country. Unless of course they had the skulls of everyone else they killed in that room they trapped you in. Then you might have a case for self-defense.

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    while I wouldn't necessarily have the gun pointed at you, especially with my finger on the trigger, ANYONE who knocks on my door past a given time will be greeted as courteously as anyone else, with the exception that my pistol will be in my hand instead of my holster. that's just teh way it is for me.

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    And see me and my brother were very kind to this man we told him exactly what happened he seen my truck in the ditch and knew we just got in an accident. As I said before I understand him having the gun. The point of my story was use self defense when self defense is needed don't jump to conclusions. At the time this happened Michigan had a self defense law that you had a a duty to retreat which in this case the man was the aggressor. All in all this man broke the law even though we were on his property, he pulled a gun in a threating manner when he had no right to do so. If he was that worried he could have yelled through the door we'll call the police for you there was no need to take it to the level he did.

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    jcman wrote:
    This reminds me of a story I heard back when I was in Scouts. Our troop was told of a story where two youth scouts, either 16 or 17, were driving together when they noticed a pick-up truck had broken down on the side of the road. There were two men out back looking at the truck. The two scouts talked about it, and decided to stop and help the men, the thought being that there was only two of them, and if things turned nasty, they would be able to defend themselves. Well, once the scouts were out of their vehicle, and approaching the truck, two more men popped up from the bed of the truck and the four men easily overpowered the two scouts, took their money, etc....

    The point being, imagine if you're that old man. You hear a knock on the door, look out, and see one teenager with no wounds, and a second who 'appears' to be injured. You haven't spoken with them, so you don't know the situation, or what their conditions really are. You're just home alone, in the middle of no where, with your wife. Even though it's a low crime area, these could be two kids who are looking to rough you up and steal some items from you, if not worse. I don't blame the guy one bit for his actions.

    Now, you know yourself, and you know that you were not out to hurt or rob that family. You can be pissed that he answered the door with a gun pointed at you and didn't trust you right away, and I wouldn't fault you for that. But you have to consider that this guy was a complete stranger and didn't know you, so what was he supposed to do?
    He had options but he decided not to use them. He could have said through the door we'll call the police for you their on their way. He could have had the pistol ready to use, but out of sight. He could have not answered the door at all. Point being you can't just point a load gun at someone with your finger on the trigger ready to shoot just because they knock on your door that is a crime. In Michigan thats brandishing a firearm without good cause. Michigan law says now but back then you had a duty to retreat not that I agree with the old law but thats how it was. You are only allowed to use the same amount of force thats used against you. Therefore me standing there is not an act of force. Regardless of age he was in the wrong.



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    adam40cal wrote:
    jcman wrote:
    This reminds me of a story I heard back when I was in Scouts. Our troop was told of a story where two youth scouts, either 16 or 17, were driving together when they noticed a pick-up truck had broken down on the side of the road. There were two men out back looking at the truck. The two scouts talked about it, and decided to stop and help the men, the thought being that there was only two of them, and if things turned nasty, they would be able to defend themselves. Well, once the scouts were out of their vehicle, and approaching the truck, two more men popped up from the bed of the truck and the four men easily overpowered the two scouts, took their money, etc....

    The point being, imagine if you're that old man. You hear a knock on the door, look out, and see one teenager with no wounds, and a second who 'appears' to be injured. You haven't spoken with them, so you don't know the situation, or what their conditions really are. You're just home alone, in the middle of no where, with your wife. Even though it's a low crime area, these could be two kids who are looking to rough you up and steal some items from you, if not worse. I don't blame the guy one bit for his actions.

    Now, you know yourself, and you know that you were not out to hurt or rob that family. You can be pissed that he answered the door with a gun pointed at you and didn't trust you right away, and I wouldn't fault you for that. But you have to consider that this guy was a complete stranger and didn't know you, so what was he supposed to do?
    He had options but he decided not to use them. He could have said through the door we'll call the police for you their on their way. He could have had the pistol ready to use, but out of sight. He could have not answered the door at all. Point being you can't just point a load gun at someone with your finger on the trigger ready to shoot just because they knock on your door that is a crime. In Michigan thats brandishing a firearm without good cause. Michigan law says now but back then you had a duty to retreat not that I agree with the old law but thats how it was. You are only allowed to use the same amount of force thats used against you. Therefore me standing there is not an act of force. Regardless of age he was in the wrong.

    It sounds more like you had your feathers ruffled because the guy wasn't polite enough to invite you in.

    As you stated, it was at night, in the middle of nowhere. A couple of teen agers run their truck off the road. How is he to know you aren't drunk, high, or have some other sort of mischief in mind? Accidents and breakdowns have been staged before to gain entry into peoples home. Heck, that's one of the reasons Castle Doctrine laws are being passed.

    I think his tactical mistake was to open the door at all. Nope, gotta go with the home owner on this one.

    DocV



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    If I were in the homeowner's position, I'd have answered the door not with a pistol... But with a shotgun. I would have told you to keep your hands up and not to move. Then I'd ask you what your business is.

    In your position, I would have yielded full respect to the homeowner and requested access to the phone or requested him to call the police.

    Just because an area is low crime doesn't mean it couldn't happen. He may have had a real attitude problem, but if he was old and it was late in the evening in the middle of winter, who wouldn't? Given your situation, his attitude should have been the least of your problems.

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    Walleye wrote:
    If I were in the homeowner's position, I'd have answered the door not with a pistol... But with a shotgun. I would have told you to keep your hands up and not to move. Then I'd ask you what your business is.

    In your position, I would have yielded full respect to the homeowner and requested access to the phone or requested him to call the police.

    Just because an area is low crime doesn't mean it couldn't happen. He may have had a real attitude problem, but if he was old and it was late in the evening in the middle of winter, who wouldn't? Given your situation, his attitude should have been the least of your problems.
    What part are you people not understanding? I was very polite to this guy and all I wanted was for him to call the police I didn't ask to come in his house. And for the record you can't just pull a gun on someone if they are not showing a threat and just knocking on your door! if this is the mind set you people have you will probably end up in jail one of these days. Show me in the law where this is justifiable to pull a gun on someone for knocking on your door.

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    adam40cal wrote:
    What part are you people not understanding? I was very polite to this guy and all I wanted was for him to call the police I didn't ask to come in his house. And for the record you can't just pull a gun on someone if they are not showing a threat and just knocking on your door! if this is the mind set you people have you will probably end up in jail one of these days. Show me in the law where this is justifiable to pull a gun on someone for knocking on your door.
    Adam, i think that we all have our wires crossed here.

    personally, I understand what you're saying. you were upset by the fact that he was drawing on you at the time. No one here is arguing against that being bad.

    All I said was that I would have had my pistol ready in the same situation, as I always do.

    everyone is getting caught up on different points of the story.

    you are emphasizing this portion:

    "I looked at the mans hand and he had a loaded pistol with his finger on the trigger pointed right at us!"

    while everyone else seems to be putting emphasis here:

    "I looked at the mans hand and he had a loaded pistol with his finger on the trigger pointed right at us!"

    this is where the confusion comes in.

    any time anyone comes to my door after dark, I unholster my gun and take the safety off, but I keep my finger outside of the trigger guard, and I damn sure don't point it at anyone. I would say that the majority of folks here do the same thing, probably including you.

    everyone is under the impression ( I assume) that you are complaining about the presence of the gun, which you are not.

    you are complaining about the fact that if this guy farted too hard, he could have parted your hair for you...



    that help everyone explain the lack of communication involved?

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    unreconstructed1 wrote:
    adam40cal wrote:
    What part are you people not understanding? I was very polite to this guy and all I wanted was for him to call the police I didn't ask to come in his house. And for the record you can't just pull a gun on someone if they are not showing a threat and just knocking on your door! if this is the mind set you people have you will probably end up in jail one of these days. Show me in the law where this is justifiable to pull a gun on someone for knocking on your door.
    Adam, i think that we all have our wires crossed here.

    personally, I understand what you're saying. you were upset by the fact that he was drawing on you at the time. No one here is arguing against that being bad.

    All I said was that I would have had my pistol ready in the same situation, as I always do.

    everyone is getting caught up on different points of the story.

    you are emphasizing this portion:

    "I looked at the mans hand and he had a loaded pistol with his finger on the trigger pointed right at us!"

    while everyone else seems to be putting emphasis here:

    "I looked at the mans hand and he had a loaded pistol with his finger on the trigger pointed right at us!"

    this is where the confusion comes in.

    any time anyone comes to my door after dark, I unholster my gun and take the safety off, but I keep my finger outside of the trigger guard, and I damn sure don't point it at anyone. I would say that the majority of folks here do the same thing, probably including you.

    everyone is under the impression ( I assume) that you are complaining about the presence of the gun, which you are not.

    you are complaining about the fact that if this guy farted too hard, he could have parted your hair for you...



    that help everyone explain the lack of communication involved?
    Sorry bud my comment wasn't at you at all I knew you understood where I was coming from thanks for clearing this up to the others. Like you said the man having the gun was not an issue at all. It was the fact he over reacted.

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    It doesn't matter that you were "polite", "kind", or whatever to the gentleman in question. You entered his property at night, and he had no way initially of knowing what you were doing there. If anything, I applaud the gentleman for taking caution to ensure that he's one less victim of a late-night home invasion.

    You'll notice I come down very hard against the people who want to shoot beer thieves and such... but the home (physical structure) is sacred, and pretty much only the owner and family has the right and reason to be there. It's plausible that someone might accidentally stumble onto your property, fair enough. But coming to the door? There's little room for accident there.

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    I'm with imperalism2024 on this one. Two young men come knocking on your door in the middle of winter at 2100 in the evening isn't cause for alarm or caution? I don't think he wanted to take any chances.

    You think he overreacted; most of us will disagree. An overreaction would have been if he'd shot you.

  22. #22
    Founder's Club Member
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    Guys!!

    I don't understand why we're having this debate.

    The law in many states, if not all,is clear on a particular point in the story.

    When the homeowner called the kid's attention to the pointed firearm it was, at a minimum, brandishing.

    End of discussion. We don't need to resort to personal opinion. What are we going to do, rehash 600 years of common law on threatening someone with aweapon?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  23. #23
    Regular Member possumboy's Avatar
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    unreconstructed1 wrote:
    while I wouldn't necessarily have the gun pointed at you, especially with my finger on the trigger, ANYONE who knocks on my door past a given time will be greeted as courteously as anyone else, with the exception that my pistol will be in my hand instead of my holster. that's just teh way it is for me.
    I have never answered the door past a given time.

    I have always went to a window and asked the person what was needed.

    I am armed, but I do not have a light on me, and there is a light on the person.I have let people into my cars to stay warm while waiting and given them food, drinks, and phone access. Since the children came around, no one I do not know gets into my house after hours.

    If they drive off in the car, it has lo-jack and it was better than having to defend my familyin my home.

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Perhaps the gentleman had heard of James Parker, Rob Tulloch and the Dartmouth Murders. Jim and Rob were two teenage boys who attempted the "just got in an accident" as a ruse to gain entry to two homes before changing tactics to gain entry and murder the Zantops. And they were not the first. I can understand the man's concern and caution.

    While pointing it at you with his finger on the trigger is a huge no-no by today's standards, depending when, how or if he were trained, he may have been taught that method. The OP also states "we were in the middle of nowhere". In context, I can see why the cops didn't get all that excited about the situation. I can tell you that I would not have let them in the house with my fiancee there. I would have called the police for them while they waited on the front porch. Whether I offered further assistance would depend on many factors.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

  25. #25
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    You can just say he is a crazy old man. Would it surprise you that a old man would do something like that, then have his wife put him in order. It is a classic situation if you ask me. It was not wrong to have a loaded gun at the door, it was wrong to point it at you for no reason. From reading some of the first fewpost I see you understand that.

    And yeah If someone draws on the old man in that situation, they would have to be a very good shooter to win that shootout, and then they would have to be very convincer good to win in court.

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