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Thread: brandishing

  1. #1
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    If am standing outside my vehicle I'm loading or unloading my gun, is that considered brandishing if you don't have a CCW?

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    I don't believe that meets the definition, which is to wave or display or flourish in a menacing or threatining manner. Rather it's doing what you have to in the most civil way possible. Yes, a cop could hassle you, but it probably wouldn't hold up in court.
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    ruger45 wrote:
    If am standing outside my vehicle I'm loading or unloading my gun, is that considered brandishing if you don't have a CCW?
    There is a AG opinion that defines brandishing. While the opinion is in regards to a reserve police officer, it should be used broadly as it defines the word brandishing.

    http://www.ag.state.mi.us/opinion/da...0s/op10176.htm

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    Furner wrote:
    ruger45 wrote:
    If am standing outside my vehicle I'm loading or unloading my gun, is that considered brandishing if you don't have a CCW?
    There is a AG opinion that defines brandishing. While the opinion is in regards to a reserve police officer, it should be used broadly as it defines the word brandishing.

    http://www.ag.state.mi.us/opinion/da...0s/op10176.htm
    While the opinion was in regards to reserve officers, if you read the opinion she states that a volunteer reserve officer is the same as anyone that is not a legal LEO, so by definition he opinion related to any non LEO meaning you and I. So it really does apply to everyone.
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    Check out 750.234e. "Brandishing firearm in public" Page 132 Firearms Laws Of Mi.

    I received copy of book at CPL Training


    (2)Subsection (1) does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) A Peace Officer lawfully preforming his or her duties as a peace officer.

    (b) A person lawfully engaged in hunting.

    (c) A peson lawfully engaged in target practice.

    (d) A peson lawfully engaged in the sale, purchase, repair, or transfer of that firearm.

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    1COUNTRYBOY wrote:
    Check out 750.234e. "Brandishing firearm in public" Page 132 Firearms Laws Of Mi.

    I received copy of book at CPL Training


    (2)Subsection (1) does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) A Peace Officer lawfully preforming his or her duties as a peace officer.

    (b) A person lawfully engaged in hunting.

    (c) A peson lawfully engaged in target practice.

    (d) A peson lawfully engaged in the sale, purchase, repair, or transfer of that firearm.
    That just means that if you have un-holstered your gun for participation in a lawful purpose (including a private FTF sale) then it is not brandishing.
    Make sure you check out the Attorney General opinion that defines brandishing.

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    The AG's opinion was referring to a reserve police officer carring a holstered weapon. Futher on down the AG acutally defers to federal guidelines"U.S. v Moerman,233 F3d 379,380 (Ca6,2000)....."brandishing" a weapon is defined to mean "that the weapon was pointed or waved about, or displayed in a threatening manner"

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    1COUNTRYBOY wrote:
    The AG's opinion was referring to a reserve police officer carring a holstered weapon. Futher on down the AG acutally defers to federal guidelines"U.S. v Moerman,233 F3d 379,380 (Ca6,2000)....."brandishing" a weapon is defined to mean "that the weapon was pointed or waved about, or displayed in a threatening manner"
    Correct, but that opinion is important because even for a civilian, it sets a standard that a law enforcement officer must follow during a "man with a gun" call. They cannot ticket or charge you with brandishing for having a concealed or visible holstered gun. The AG does not use any special definition of brandishing, instead, she refered to a dictionary definition as allowed by People v Denio. This would almost certainly be applied to any falsly accused "brandishing" whether civilian or reserve officer.
    #7101 is one of those important pieces of documentation as it is the only place where brandishing is defined. It came about because of a reserve officer inquiry, but almost certainly would be applied to civilians as well. No way to know for sure because it has not been tested. But I am confident that it would hold up.


    As Venator said above, essentially, the volunteer reserve officers are not "real police".

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    1COUNTRYBOY wrote:
    The AG's opinion was referring to a reserve police officer carring a holstered weapon. Futher on down the AG acutally defers to federal guidelines"U.S. v Moerman,233 F3d 379,380 (Ca6,2000)....."brandishing" a weapon is defined to mean "that the weapon was pointed or waved about, or displayed in a threatening manner"
    A section of the opinion. Note the bold type.

    [size=In the absence of any reported ][/size][size=Michigan][/size][size= appellate court decisions defining "brandishing," it is appropriate to rely upon dictionary definitions. People v Denio, 454 ][/size][size=Mich][/size][size= 691, 699; 564 NW2d 13 (1997). According to The American Heritage Dictionary, ][/size][size=Second][/size][size= ][/size][size=College][/size][size= Edition (1982][/size][size=), at p 204, the term brandishing is defined as: "1. To wave or flourish menacingly, as a weapon. 2. To display ostentatiously. –n. A menacing or defiant wave or flourish." This definition comports with the meaning ascribed to this term by courts of other jurisdictions. For example, in ][/size][size=United States][/size][size= v Moerman][/size][size=, 233 F3d 379, 380 (CA 6, 2000), the court recognized that in federal sentencing guidelines, "brandishing" a weapon is defined to mean "that the weapon was pointed or waved about, or displayed in a threatening manner."][/size]

    [size=Applying these definitions to your question, it is clear that a reserve police officer, regardless whether he or she qualifies as a "peace officer," when carrying a handgun in a holster in plain view, is not waving or displaying the firearm in a threatening manner. Thus, such conduct does not constitute brandishing a firearm in violation of section 234e of the Michigan Penal Code.][/size]

    [size=It is my opinion, therefore, that a reserve police officer, by carrying a handgun in a holster that is in plain view, does not violate section 234e of the Michigan Penal Code, which prohibits brandishing a firearm in public.][/size]

    [size=This ruling applys to anyone OCing, That is they are NOT brandishing.][/size]
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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