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Thread: Living with Honor.

  1. #1
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    At what point must one put aside the label "law-abiding citizen" and choose to stand for their principles? And, at what cost?

    I have been considering this point heavily for the last few days.

    I am looking at this point mostly from the perspective of the right to bear arms, as the defense of all other rights comes from the ability to preserve these rights against oppression and tyranny.

    I strongly desire tranquility, to walk the path of the peaceful warrior. It is not my nature to seek conflict. But the question arises: At what point do we have to stand and say "Live Free or Die"? At what point does living with honor require us to live outside of the law?

    Is there concern for our nation, when the main place that the right to bear arms is restricted is in the halls of the government? This, the government designed to be "of the people, by the people, for the people"?

    Why is it a crime for me to enter a post office with a sidearm? Why does the mayor and council wish to exercise power against us, instead of exercising it's power to serve us? When did the government gain the ability to state that I am not worthy of it's trust, when it's explicit purpose is to serve myself and my fellow citizen?

    When do words no longer serve their purpose? When must one take action?

    I know that we, as these United States, are not there. But I am concerned. I see the violence and degradation of society in our cities, the disdain the police hold for the citizenry and the rule of law, the lack of community and respect.

    The level of apathy that exists within the citizens of this country scares me. Burke said it best:
    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.I encourage each and everyone of us to become politically active. We need to have our voices heard. We need to speak loudly. We need to wake those who are willing to be motivated.

    I look forward to hearing your opinions and thoughts.



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    Well, looking at the government from the mindset of a the typical liberal, I think that if I were one of them, I'd already believe thaty the government is serving the people. Think about it; the government practices income redistribution through progressive taxation, has passed more than 20,000 gun control laws nationwide, and if thier candidate for president wins in November, everyone, including alcoholics, smokers, drug abusers and others whose health problems are the result of poor lifestyle choices will receive health care at taxpayer expense. Seems to me like government working for the people

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    personally, for me that time has already come. I see the outright infringement of not only our second ammendment rights in a vast majority of ways.

    But the time to act, isn't when you've had enough, but when you convince enough people to have had enough. while a lone man standing in front of a line of tanks makes for an interesting photo, that one man cannot change the course of the government by himself. He must practice the dedication necessary to show more and more people that the system is bankrupt.

    when will it be enough? when enough people stand by your side to effect change.

  4. #4
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    tattedupboy wrote:
    Well, looking at the government from the mindset of a the typical liberal, I think that if I were one of them, I'd already believe thaty the government is serving the people.* Think about it; the government practices income redistribution through progressive taxation, has passed more than 20,000 gun control laws nationwide, and if thier candidate for president wins in November, everyone, including alcoholics, smokers, drug abusers and others whose health problems are the result of poor lifestyle choices will receive health care at taxpayer expense.* Seems to me like government working for the people
    And therein lies the problem. We already have a government that is 'by, for, and of the people' - we just have all the wrong people running it.

  5. #5
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    Phoenixphire wrote:
    At what point must one put aside the label "law-abiding citizen" and choose to stand fortheir principles? And, at what cost?
    These arebig-picture questions dealing with one's relationship to society, responsibility to society, ethics, morals, and so forth.

    I don't think you're really going to get an answer useful to yourself without first nailing down those subjects for yourself.

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  6. #6
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    like_the_roman wrote:
    tattedupboy wrote:
    Well, looking at the government from the mindset of a the typical liberal, I think that if I were one of them, I'd already believe thaty the government is serving the people. Think about it; the government practices income redistribution through progressive taxation, has passed more than 20,000 gun control laws nationwide, and if thier candidate for president wins in November, everyone, including alcoholics, smokers, drug abusers and others whose health problems are the result of poor lifestyle choices will receive health care at taxpayer expense. Seems to me like government working for the people
    And therein lies the problem. We already have a government that is 'by, for, and of the people' - we just have all the wrong people running it.
    Precisely! However, it all depends on what your definition of "wrong" is. If people who respect the Constitution and are despised by liberals are the ones running the country, they would then be the ones saying that the "wrong" people are running the country.

  7. #7
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    I recall several months ago a member bringing up the term "peaceable citizen" instead of "law-abiding citizen" to differentiate between those who act in a responsible and prudent manner in society, and those who only blindly follow the law of man.

    Remember, the concentration camp guards in Nazi Germany were "law-abiding citizens". The Jews who fought off their oppressors were "criminals".

  8. #8
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    Phoenixphire , I couldn't agree more. Too many people today live without honor or even a sense of honor. They fail to learn those lessons of history and with no regard for the legacy they leave their children, live in selfish indignance with little to no regard for fellow man unless it makes them look good. They want money without work, sex without responsbility of parenting, and all the spoils of today without the toils of yesterday. They live with no thought of consequence either for themselves, their souls or anything they leave behind; their families, their children, their community or nation. Self, self, self is the only thing that matters these days for far too many.

    Our governmenthas setdishonorable laws against usas the mandate fromthe people as it always has! It will listen to the voices that speak out...but it also acknowledges the silence as "silent consent". We as a nation, through the voices of few and the silence of many, manipulated through deception and our own laziness and apathy, gave it to them. That's why Lincoln's point of not being able to fool all the people all the time is so profound. They may get one over on us for a little while, but it won't last. Unless we let it.

    Barring outside influence,America as any nation, gets exactly what sheand her people desire and deserve. Whathas been earned through eitheraction...or inaction.

    We can't change the world, but we can change OUR world by changing ourselves. Live with honor, refuseto be like the selfish and corrupt. Set the example and when tested, strengthen your resolve. Do the right thing but not for a pat on the back, not for the fameor recognition...just do it because it is the right thing to do. Then teach that to your children. Make your voice heard in the community and nation!!

    To paraphrase Pirsig, "Start first in your own heart and head and hands and work outward from there!

  9. #9
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    Be the Change you wish to see in the world — Ghandi.

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    This "code," if you will, is by no means inconsistent with arms advocacy. I'm reminded of the Spartan tradition. Nice people can and do make nasty adversaries. Lycurgus supposedly said, upon being asked why Sparta had so few laws, said something to the effect that "men of few words need few laws." Not that this is so profound, necessarily, but it does suggest a state of mind -of character -that is not in evidence in this age of attorneys.

    -ljp

  11. #11
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    When the time comes for "Live Free or Die", You will have no doubts about what to do.

    For me, I closely study the Word of God.

    So, IMO,

    WhenANYONE on this planet,causes me to sin against God or His word;

    I will not merely rebel,

    I will Cast Down those who wish to impose their evilness on myself, my family, or any other fellowman,woman or child,on this planet.

    Now, Know this. If and when what I metioned above ever happens, I will undoubtly have nochoice in the matter. I foresee it happening by mere reaction of the situation. This by NO MEANS is some sort of FFA, as if someone pissed me off, or was doing something I didn't like. I'm talking about STRICTLY and DIRECTLY causing me to sin.

    I don't see this happening anytime soon.

    I'm not sure how to further explain what I'm trying to say so I'll give an example.

    Examples:

    I'm not going to kill porno makers b/c I can't stop watching it. (MERELY AN EXAMPLE !) I don't take this issue lightly either, so no jokes please !

    Another example:

    The 2nd time I went to combat was in Fallujah, Iraq,in the Winter of 04'. I remember this one particular PFC who seem to be struggling with the possibility of whether or not he would be able to pull the trigger when the time came.

    >(For those of you who are unfamilar with the Fallujah Battle, It was NOT a matter of IF you had to pull the trigger, it was a matter of WHEN. The Insurgents there had close to6 months to bunker down. They knew we were coming, and we knew they were waiting.
    So This not being my first combat deployment, I explained and promised the young man, that when the time came, he would not have to make a choice, he would simply react to the situation and his root, core, soul, training would take over. Not 24 hour's later, we were involved in our first firefight of the day, and deployment. I won't go into details but needless to say, the kid performed well.)<

    So Mr. Pierce, I think when the bullets start flying, all men will react instinctively. All men will simply react and revert back to their own roots, training, belief. No One will have to tell you anything, I think we'll all know, real clear when that time comes. There will be no hesitation.

    If and when that day comes, I will stand firm, and cast down those who attempt to destroy me, and or my fellow people.



    and thats all I got say aboutdat....


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