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Thread: Open Carry Welcomed

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    The Coffee Beanery in Berkley, on Woodward, welcomes open carry. Per part owner Greg.

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Awsome!

    But what about the other owner/s

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    I would OC there when I visit Michigan in a couple weeks while I recover from my CZ52 eff up, but being a non resident without a CPL I can't bring my pistol. But I will be stopping in for a snack, an open invitation to OCers is more than enough to earn a visit from me.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    I have only dealt with the one owner who works the afternoon shift 4-9.

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    Just to clarify which coffee store. The Coffee Beanery is on the West side of Woodward, South of 12 Mile. There's a "Beaner" which is now called "Bigsby" on the East side of Woodward a lttle farther North.

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    NervisRek wrote:
    Just to clarify which coffee store. The Coffee Beanery is on the West side of Woodward, South of 12 Mile. There's a "Beaner" which is now called "Bigsby" on the East side of Woodward a lttle farther North.
    Do they have a fairly large seating area? Maybe you can arrange/host an OC get together there this year. Find out what the owner(s) have to say. We would only be there about 2 hours or so depending on how many that would attend.

    It never hurts to ask. All they can say isno.

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    That's only a mile from my house! I'm up for a meet if my schedule is open, and if you set one up.

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    I'm in,was planning to go anyway. (just because they support o.c.) I am liking the o.c. more and more) Plan on talking to some of the local bussiness to see how they will respond. Guys at work still tell me crazy to do it. Mom always said it never did any good to tell me I couldn't do something.(spend many a day grounded or sore a**ed)



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    Just so you guys know, you don't need a group to carry at the coffee shop, you can do so as an individual. I've done so many times. Mon - Fri 4:00-9:00pm. Greg says no problem. By the way, great food also and yes lots of seating, with entertainment on Friday nights (Usually),

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    I told my brother about this, and he happily came by and bought some stuff even though he isn't an OCer. It's nice being able to go to an actually cool coffee shop.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    1COUNTRYBOY wrote:
    I'm in,was planning to go anyway. (just because they support o.c.) I am liking the o.c. more and more) Plan on talking to some of the local bussiness to see how they will respond. Guys at work still tell me crazy to do it. Mom always said it never did any good to tell me I couldn't do something.(spend many a day grounded or sore a**ed)

    Why do that? I suggest you just OC in the store and let the management approach you if they do at all. In all of my OCing only one coffee shop asked me to take my gun out to my car. You can read about it in the OC experiences thread.

    Why ask how they feel about it? Nothing to gain by doing that
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Why do that? I suggest you just OC in the store and let the management approach you if they do at all. In all of my OCing only one coffee shop asked me to take my gun out to my car. You can read about it in the OC experiences thread.

    Why ask how they feel about it? Nothing to gain by doing that

    Shame on you, haven't I been any influence on you yet? It's called RESPECT! The same as I respect your opinion of "better to be forgiven than ask permission". Not that I agree with it (we always agree to disagree on this one). I commend him for his being thoughtful enough to ask.

    off my soap box now---- See you sat. Brian


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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    On the one hand, it IS polite to ask. But why should you have to? We here all agree that it's a basic human right to be able to defend yourself to whatever reasonable level is needed, and a firearm is part of that. If someone wants to take away that basic freedom from you while you are actually giving them business, they should at least have a sign. But yes, it is an uncommon thing to have a weapon displayed on a hip. It goes both ways, and I say you are both right.


    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    I never saw it as respectful or polite to ask to carry a gun into someones establishment. I consider carrying a gun a personal choice. To me it is like asking if I can wear purple underwear into the same place. It's not like I'm not respect thier wishes, it's just that I don't see any benifit from making an issue out of it. I don't see not asking as disrespectful or impolite. However respecting thier wishes if they ask you to leave.

    My opinion is that they don't have any right to tell you to not wear the gun. The right they do have is telling me to leave, not cover up or disarm. Their house, their rules; my body, my rules.

    Sorry, but I just find it kind of strange to walk up to a proprietor and ask, "Excuse me but, do you mind if I carry my gun in here?" (mind you, I am talking about me personaly. People must do what they feel comfortable with). That would be myself making an issue out of it. I would much rather treat it as a non-issue, and if someone else decides to make an issue of it then, well ... that's their decision. However, I'm not going to fall into the game of making it out to be more than it is. By that logic, CCW's, as well as LEO would also be asking permission. Act like you belong there.

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    ghostrider wrote:
    I never saw it as respectful or polite to ask to carry a gun into someones establishment. I consider carrying a gun a personal choice. To me it is like asking if I can wear purple underwear into the same place. It's not like I'm not respect thier wishes, it's just that I don't see any benifit from making an issue out of it. I don't see not asking as disrespectful or impolite. However respecting thier wishes if they ask you to leave.

    My opinion is that they don't have any right to tell you to not wear the gun. The right they do have is telling me to leave, not cover up or disarm. Their house, their rules; my body, my rules.

    Sorry, but I just find it kind of strange to walk up to a proprietor and ask, "Excuse me but, do you mind if I carry my gun in here?" (mind you, I am talking about me personaly. People must do what they feel comfortable with). That would be myself making an issue out of it. I would much rather treat it as a non-issue, and if someone else decides to make an issue of it then, well ... that's their decision. However, I'm not going to fall into the game of making it out to be more than it is. By that logic, CCW's, as well as LEO would also be asking permission. Act like you belong there.
    Underwear should be CCed, maybe purple pants?

    I agree with you're entire post. Asking seems like it is more likely to cause more problems and should be unnecessary.

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    SQLtables wrote:
    ghostrider wrote:
    I never saw it as respectful or polite to ask to carry a gun into someones establishment. I consider carrying a gun a personal choice. To me it is like asking if I can wear purple underwear into the same place. It's not like I'm not respect thier wishes, it's just that I don't see any benifit from making an issue out of it. I don't see not asking as disrespectful or impolite. However respecting thier wishes if they ask you to leave.

    My opinion is that they don't have any right to tell you to not wear the gun. The right they do have is telling me to leave, not cover up or disarm. Their house, their rules; my body, my rules.

    Sorry, but I just find it kind of strange to walk up to a proprietor and ask, "Excuse me but, do you mind if I carry my gun in here?" (mind you, I am talking about me personaly. People must do what they feel comfortable with). That would be myself making an issue out of it. I would much rather treat it as a non-issue, and if someone else decides to make an issue of it then, well ... that's their decision. However, I'm not going to fall into the game of making it out to be more than it is. By that logic, CCW's, as well as LEO would also be asking permission. Act like you belong there.
    Underwear should be CCed, maybe purple pants?

    I agree with you're entire post. Asking seems like it is more likely to cause more problems and should be unnecessary.
    I too have to agree with Venator and ghostrider on this issue. However, in a case where you may know the owner/manager of the business, I would agree with Jerry and most likely ask. Other than that, I don't see the point. It's just asking them to post signage.

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    I too have to agree with Venator and ghostrider on this issue. However, in a case where you may know the owner/manager of the business, I would agree with Jerry and most likely ask. Other than that, I don't see the point. It's just asking them to post signage.
    I concur. If you know the owner/manager, then you will know the correct course of action as to whether or not to ask. It would much depend upon the relation you have with that person.

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    If you are someone like warchild, who likes to go up and talk to people and be courteous, I think asking permission can very much be a good thing. You can figure out a perfect way to ask, similar to the technique of hobo's who are really good with psychology, and not only educate the store owner or clerk or manager, who would have maybe not even really noticed or thought you were a plain clothes cop, but you might even recruit a new OCer!!!:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

    Granted, that sort of thing isn't for everyone, and I don't feel like doing that either, but if that is the attitude someone wants to take, I see nothing wrong with it.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Michigander wrote:
    If you are someone like warchild, who likes to go up and talk to people and be courteous, I think asking permission can very much be a good thing. You can figure out a perfect way to ask, similar to the technique of hobo's who are really good with psychology, and not only educate the store owner or clerk or manager, who would have maybe not even really noticed or thought you were a plain clothes cop, but you might even recruit a new OCer!!!:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

    Granted, that sort of thing isn't for everyone, and I don't feel like doing that either, but if that is the attitude someone wants to take, I see nothing wrong with it.
    I can see where this may work. If, for example, you did not know the owner/manager on a personal basis, butas a frequent patron of the business (coffee shop, gas station, etc.) you may haveestablished some trust from the individuals.

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    Michigander wrote:
    If you are someone like warchild, who likes to go up and talk to people and be courteous, I think asking permission can very much be a good thing. You can figure out a perfect way to ask, similar to the technique of hobo's who are really good with psychology, and not only educate the store owner or clerk or manager, who would have maybe not even really noticed or thought you were a plain clothes cop, but you might even recruit a new OCer!!!:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

    Granted, that sort of thing isn't for everyone, and I don't feel like doing that either, but if that is the attitude someone wants to take, I see nothing wrong with it.
    I completely agree with you. I think it's good that there are those who can do it in a positive manner with good results. My only point is that I don't consider asking permission a matter of respect or courteous. After all, Rosa Parks wasn't demonstrating disrespectful behavior when she sat at the front of the bus, nor was she being impolite. It also would not have been respectful for her to ask permission to do so. She had every right to be there, and so do we as gun owners. The difference lies in that a private business/property owner has the right to ask us to leave, and it is respectful and courteous to do so without making a scene.

    I’m not in any way trying to disparage or discourage the practice of asking permission. If that’s what someone wants to do then God Bless Them. People have to make their own personal decision on how they will conduct themselves, and unless it somehow affects me personally, I don’t see it as my place to criticize. I also understand that there are instances where such actions may well be the best course.


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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    This is what I like about this forum. A good debate of the pros and cons of an individual choice. I do agree fully with both points of view. No, I do not ask "every" store I go into for permission. It is the ones that I frequent most and are seen often. The posts have demonstrated my point fully. It is the persons own choice how to present himself that matters. I don't make it a point to find a manager everywhere I go just to ask. But if I see one and he gives any notice to my gun, I will initiate a conversation with him about it. As we know, many people are not aware that it's legal to carry. As with the Dollar General store here in Owosso. When I got a fixed look from the employee, I explained to herit was legal and not to have any concern. She was fine with that and no further issues have occured.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    WARCHILD wrote:
    Why do that? I suggest you just OC in the store and let the management approach you if they do at all. In all of my OCing only one coffee shop asked me to take my gun out to my car. You can read about it in the OC experiences thread.

    Why ask how they feel about it? Nothing to gain by doing that

    Shame on you, haven't I been any influence on you yet? It's called RESPECT! The same as I respect your opinion of "better to be forgiven than ask permission". Not that I agree with it (we always agree to disagree on this one). I commend him for his being thoughtful enough to ask.

    off my soap box now---- See you sat. Brian
    You have had some influences on me, but not on this point.

    Let's look at the numbers. Look, most people are neutral on guns, many are plain anti-gun, a few are pro gun. We as pro-gun people can't even agree on OC vs CC for God's sake, how is a neutral person, say an owner or manger going to react if you ask..."Hey I"m bringing a gun into your store do you mind?" The odds, based on theabove breakdown is thatthe manager will say no (for whatever reason..but I bet it will be because he doesn't want to take on the perceived responsibility by allowing you to carry the gun in his store). If they are anti-gun you are screwed. You might get lucky and find one of the few pro gun people as an owner/manager, but with the odds I showed, I wouldn't bet on it. So the odds are stacked against you by asking permission, little gain with a big potential lose.

    I feel it's much better to go about your shopping as if nothing is out of the ordinary. If nothing happens and no one complains, you show up again. If you are a regular customer and they get to know you by sight, they will realize you are not a threat and they may more favourably deal with a customer that is concerned. He may say "oh that guy, he's okay, he's in here a lot, don't worry." I have had this happen more then being asked to leave (with the one time so far).

    And, this doesn't take into account all the other reasons mentioned, like personal defense and freedom, etc...

    I still say it's better odds not to ask.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    I think you guys need to save this one for the show

    I see both as viable options solely dependent on if you frequent the business and are already known(by face or name) by the owner/manager.

    I think:

    If the manager or owner doesn't know you the chances of being asked to conceal or not bring the weapon in is greater. (bad thing)

    If the manager or owner does know you the chances of being welcome to bring the weapon in is much greater. (good thing)

    So, could it be said that if you are known it's best to ask and if you are not known it's best to not ask?



    ummm...opps, I think I may have just killed the discussion.:P

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    Venator wrote:

    Let's look at the numbers. Look, most people are neutral on guns, many are plain anti-gun, a few are pro gun. We as pro-gun people can't even agree on OC vs CC for God's sake, how is a neutral person, say an owner or manger going to react if you ask..."Hey I"m bringing a gun into your store do you mind?" The odds, based on theabove breakdown is thatthe manager will say no (for whatever reason..but I bet it will be because he doesn't want to take on the perceived responsibility by allowing you to carry the gun in his store). If they are anti-gun you are screwed. You might get lucky and find one of the few pro gun people as an owner/manager, but with the odds I showed, I wouldn't bet on it. So the odds are stacked against you by asking permission, little gain with a big potential lose.

    I feel it's much better to go about your shopping as if nothing is out of the ordinary. If nothing happens and no one complains, you show up again. If you are a regular customer and they get to know you by sight, they will realize you are not a threat and they may more favourably deal with a customer that is concerned. He may say "oh that guy, he's okay, he's in here a lot, don't worry." I have had this happen more then being asked to leave (with the one time so far).

    And, this doesn't take into account all the other reasons mentioned, like personal defense and freedom, etc...

    I still say it's better odds not to ask.
    All valid points, and well said.

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    It just burns my nosehairs when you confuse me with facts. Thanks againg Brian, you just always gotta be right. I do agree with your points of fact, can't deny your logic either. Darn it.

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