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Thread: Sorry Folks!

  1. #1
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    Alright, ladies and gentleman, I just found this website thanks to Nightline. O.K. it's fine that our constitution says we have the right to bear arms, but i just couldn't help myself but watch the special and think:

    1. How manyof "most" of you (and not all) really need to carry a gun in the open?

    2. How many of you have actually have deterred a crime because you have a gun holstered?

    3. Do you really need to carry it to feel safe?

    I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but the reality from what I saw on the special is a bunch of people afraid of being a victim of a crime that really have no need to carry a firearm at all. I've lived in very compromising neighborhoods in California and Illinois, but have never had a "need" to deter crime by showing in the open my lethal means of deterring such a crime? Please educate me (and without the fact that it's our "right").

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    Well, first of all, welcome to the forum. Hope you stick around; you're not the first to have found us through the Nightline report.

    First of all, a gun is a defensive tool. Much like you might have pepperspray or a kubotan/yawara stick on a keychain, a gun on a hip is really no different in terms of when you would hope to use it, which is never. The differencehere is mostlyeffectiveness; some guys are immune to pepper spray, and you have to get close, too close, to an assailant to use a kubotan, but very few people are immune to bullets. However, like any "necessity", when you do from day to day not having to use it (thank God), you fall into the trap of thinking you do not need it.

    Compare it to your car insurance. Most states require you have it, but if they didn't, and you drove for 10 years without an accident, itwould bevery easy to convince yourself that you are a safe driver that would never get in an accident, so you don't need insurance. That may be true, but the bozo in the next lane probably thought the same way before he cut you off and put you in the barrier. You may be a model citizen, but not everyone is, and without measures to protect yourself, here financially but also personally, you will eventually find yourself paying for the actions of others. So, to answer your third question, I'll put it back on you; would you feel safe driving your car without insurance?

    It is for that reason that, in our opinion, we really need to have a gun at all times. Given that premise, the question of open carry versus concealed carry becomes more personal, when you have the option to do either. Open carry has a deterrant effect. If you plan on robing a convenience store, and you walk in to see a guy pre-paying for his gas with a sidearm on his hip, you are going to think twice. OC is also more comfortable in places that tend to be a bit warmer than Illinois, such as the Deep South and Southwest. However, yes, it can be alarming. Concealed carry avoids alarm, but it is less comfortable, requires digging into clothes to draw if necessary, and of the 48 states that allow it, only 2 do not require a permit to do so. In Texas, the application requirements and process are among the strictest of the so-called "shall-issue" states where if you meet the requirements there is no discretion on the part of the issuing agency as to whether to give you a permit. While I appreciate the screening, trainign and qualification process in place, as do LEOs, I feel that there is something fundamentally wrong with having to pay the State to do something that the Federal government has said for over 200 years that I need no permission to do.

    I think you'll find if you browse these forums for a while, especially the "True Tales of Self Defense" forum, that you will find there is ample anectodal evidence to support the carry of a weapon, one way or the other. Stick around for a while, and I hope we can change your mind. Thanks for checking us out.



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    Just kind of quick, do you wear a seat belt when driving? do you carry a spare tire in your vehicle? do you have smoke det. in your house? Or do you walk around in a daze hoping that some one else will watch out for you not to worry or wonder why,things happen to you. The odds are stacking up. Most of our people here also have concealed carry permits and do this daily,while some open carry, it is just a choice. Hope I could help, tired not sure if this makes since or not.

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    1. Do I need to carry openly? I suppose not, but why wouldn't I? I have nothing to hide, that includes my sidearm.

    2. I have seen at least half a dozen obvious shoplifters turn and leave a convenience store after noticing my gun. No, I have no proof that they were going to shoplift, but c'mon, a reasonable person can tell when someone is up to no good. Each time the clerk also mentioned the strange behavior, so it wasn't just me being paranoid. This was hardly the ghetto either, this was in a nice suburban part of town.

    3. Yes, I feel safer when I am armed.

    I carry everywhere because there is nowhere that is absolutely safe. I try to stay out of the bad parts of town but sometimes that is unavoidable. Crime happens everywhere, so why not be prepared everywhere?

    Welcome to the forum! Please, take some time to read through the forums, there is a lot of insight into why we carry.

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    Whoa! wrote:
    Alright, ladies and gentleman, I just found this website thanks to Nightline. O.K. it's fine that our constitution says we have the right to bear arms, but i just couldn't help myself but watch the special and think:

    1. How manyof "most" of you (and not all) really need to carry a gun in the open?

    2. How many of you have actually have deterred a crime because you have a gun holstered?

    3. Do you really need to carry it to feel safe?

    I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but the reality from what I saw on the special is a bunch of people afraid of being a victim of a crime that really have no need to carry a firearm at all. I've lived in very compromising neighborhoods in California and Illinois, but have never had a "need" to deter crime by showing in the open my lethal means of deterring such a crime? Please educate me (and without the fact that it's our "right").
    1. I need to carry a gun in the open because it's the only way I can carry it.
    2. I can't say for certain if I have or have not detered a crime. It's not always easy to determine that a crime has been prevented.
    3. I feel safer when carrying because I know I have an important tool available to me should certain situations arise.

    It seems quite common for people who have never personally had the need to carry a firearm, to determine that because of that, nobody needs to carry a firearm. I certainly have a need to carry a firearm; I highly value my life and I don't want it to rest solely in other people's hands. If you don't feel the same way about your life, you may not need to carry a firearm, that's up to you. Just don't assume other's have no need to carry because you don't.

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    Hello Whoa! and welcome aboard - hope you stay long, share your thoughts, and enjoy the ride. My family and I attended the picnic and really had a good time. I do believe the only thing all of had in common was the fact that we were carrying openly - tons of folks from all different walks of life - it was great!

    I was reading your questions and the associated replies and have a simple question for you...

    If I were walking out of the supermarket late at night openly carrying my firearm and noticed two men assaulting your wife/daughter, one had a knife to her throat and the other was tearing her clothes off...what should I do?

    What if after five minutes the police still had not arrived?

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    I am glade you asked this question and it is a very good one. No you do not sound like a jerk in asking, I understand why you are asking this. I'll be happy to give you an understanding as to why I carry a weapon.( I have not OC carried yet being out of the US, but I will as soon as I return to the US in the next few weeks.)

    When I am at home I live a very simple life, and I do not for the most part enter into bad situations or areas in my day to day travel. I would say I live a very low risk life style. Everyone that knows me speaks of me as being a very nice guy and I never look for trouble, BUT criminals are not and nice, and they do look for trouble.

    There's a countless number or innocent people that have fallen victim to violent crimes which did nothing to provoke the attack. Just recently the lady at Ft. Brag was found dead in the motel I doubt she provoked her attack being 7 months pregnant. Also my late uncle that was homeless man and never bothered a soul. He was beaten by a group of guys for nothing as he walked down the street. There was a guy sitting at the bus stop in my city that got his jaw broken by a guy walking by that just punched him for no reason at all. The list of unprovoked violent crimes happens all the time and the accounts just keep rolling in day after day. Watch the news, read the paper and see yourself.

    NO law-abiding citizen goes around looking for trouble, and for the most part trouble (random acts of violence) does not find us. But for some individual i.e. those mentioned above, it did. and in some cases it took their life. OCing a firearm COULD I emphasize the word Could be a crime deterrent ( I say could because some criminals are stupid and dumb) because criminals look for easy prey that has no means to defend their selves against their actions.

    Also those same criminals will more than likely be armed, and will use their weapon being provoked to use it or not. So our sidearm give us a chance of survival unlike others that are dead today because they were not armed and did not aspect to be attacked. And the OC of the said firearm could possibility denture the attacks that we never saw deceived in the mind of the BG. I think you get my point.
    Thanks for your time and question, and please feel free to continue to ask any more questions that you may have on OC, and the reason's why, you are welcome here and we hope to hear from you again.

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    Whoa! wrote:
    1. How manyof "most" of you (and not all) really need to carry a gun in the open?
    What does 'need' have to do with anything?

    2. How many of you have actually have deterred a crime because you have a gun holstered?
    Until the BadGuys step-up and admit that they're scared off by armed citizens we will never know. There are statistics suggesting that there are 2.5 million defensive gun uses unreported every year.

    3. Do you really need to carry it to feel safe?
    Again this 'need'! Safety is a tyrant's tool because no one can be against safety. Some suggest that a safety-helmet always be worn in the interest of 'safety'. Reportedly people in Japan frequently wear pedestrian-helmets. 'Safety' is a thoughtless tyrant.

    I've ... never had a "need" to deter crime by showing in the open my lethal means of deterring such a crime?
    Uh oh! A more-equal barnyard animal? We others must have a 'need' to be 'safe' but not Anony Mouse Woah! Guns are fine equalizers and have been for a long time.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******






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    Doug,

    To your point #2 I give you this:

    "A study funded by the Department of Justice confirmed what the prisoners said. Criminals buy their guns illegally and easily. The study found that what felons fear most is not the police or the prison system, but their fellow citizens, who might be armed. One inmate told me, "When you gonna rob somebody you don't know, it makes it harder because you don't know what to expect out of them." from this http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Com..._19_05_JS.html

    John Stossel, my Libertarian hero...

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    Whoa has had 2 weeks to respond and still has only 1 post. I name him a troll.

    If I were having a conversation with someone who was genuinely interested and asked if I "needed" the pistol I carry all the time, I would say "No, I don't need to survive situations where a pistol would save my life; the world would still be essentially the same place without me. I choose to equip myself to survive in those situations. Anyone else is free to make a different choice."

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    Anubis wrote:
    Whoa has had 2 weeks to respond and still has only 1 post. I name him a troll.
    Agreed. Seems he did not come here to converse, teach or learn...

    Just another...


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    Ty[icla drive-by posting.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    Its interesting that Whoa posted on the Illinois carry forum, since in Illinois we only have open carry in unincorporated rural areas when not in a vehicle and no concealed carry provison. The only exception to that would be private detectives or people in a security agency or Mayors, village presidents, trustees, or alderman. So for us commoners it is the only option and then not in the places it is needed most.

    I went to the Second Amedment Freedom Rally in Chicago July 11. Chicago not only bans the carry of handguns, but also pepper spray and knives with blades 2" long or longer. The Illinois State Police website recommends women use a rat tail file, keys, nail file, pen or pencil to stop rapists or as a last resort put a finger in their throat and vomit on themselves so they are less appealing. This is what I would call "Chicago Defense Mentality". The freedom rally was to promote concealed carry legislationand hopefully it got some people thinking. Unfortunately it seems the media chose not to report on it though, 500 or more people came. Jesse Jackson and 12 people protesting at a gun store does get coverage. If anyone wants to see pictures or hear audio, or see video about it look for the topic SAFR pictures, video at www.illinoiscarry.com/forum.

    Most folks at Illinois carry probably support open carry as I do, but you have to crawl before you can walk.

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    junglebob wrote:
    as a last resort put a finger in their throat and vomit on themselves so they are less appealing. This is what I would call "Chicago Defense Mentality".
    Wow, you're right....
    It may sound disgusting, but putting your fingers into you throat and making yourself vomit usually gets results. (This method is not often used except as a last resort.)
    Then there was this helpful tidbit...

    Use your imagination and you can think of others.
    http://www.isp.state.il.us/crime/saconfronted.cfm
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    AbNo wrote:
    Then there was this helpful tidbit...

    Use your imagination and you can think of others.
    http://www.isp.state.il.us/crime/saconfronted.cfm
    Yeah, damn I wish I didn't live in Illinois, because I would be able to carry for protection.

    Or, hey attacker, you know it's illegal to carry a firearm in Illinois, besides this is a gun free zone. This response should stop the attack, right?

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    ILSP improved their advice though. Their website used to also recommend that a woman urinate on herself. Women in IL I forwarded the site to were appalled. It just so happens that several of those women are avid scuba divers who scuba with several ILSP officers both active and retired. I was joyfully present soon after at on a dive trip where they confronted a few of them about the inanity of their website.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    And he seemed to be so sincere, he is a professional troll…

    It's midnight. Atop of the highest building in the land of trolls, the notorious Dark Troll stands, cape flowing in the wind, his hands are raised with a black keyboard outlined by the moon. His evil, haunting laughter echoes from the surrounding buildings as the Dart Troll cries out with his screeching, sinister voice saying " The Dark Troll has struck again... I cant be stopped (evil laughter)
    And so the Dark Troll seeks another forum to post and run, to highjack, and to make a mockery of..

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    If our societycould getcriminals to let us know when, where, and how they plan to attackthere might not be a need to carry (at least for everyone else that didn't get their invitation) or have in the home. Until such time, crime (much of it violent or at the least with a deadly weapon) is occurring everywhere (small town and city) and being prepared with a lawfully possessed and properly handled firearm neither hurts the preparer or anyone else in society. As mentioned above,seat belts, smoke alarms, and fire extinguishers are notmade available b/c everyone is paranoid; they are available because you never know if/when you may need them!

  19. #19
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    do you really need to vote?

  20. #20
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    Do you really need to write that letter to the editor?

    Do you really need to hold hands in public?

    Do you really need to run for office?

  21. #21
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    Another drive-by troll.

    /ignored

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    I think it all goes back to the old saying. "It's better to have aweaponon you and not need it, than to need it and not have it"

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    Some people pose questions w/o expecting or caring about the reply. I noted this in the way those questions were posed. User name: 'Whoa"... Hmmm...?

    Pehaps one day... when Whoa is not expecting it... he/she will have immediate need of a firearm or some other form of self defense implement.So sad... too bad.

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