Why I open carry!

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I've been carrying OC for over 20 years and honestly can't count the number of times it has prevented a serious and violent crime from being committed against myself or another. I saved my sister froma rape and possibly death by presenting my handgun.

I saved a woman who was running and screaming for help because her husband was chasing her with a baseball bat and yelling he was going to kill her. When she hid behind me, seeing I had a weapon, I saw the beating she had endured from him and I drew my weapon and warned the perpetrator who was still running toward her and yelling to me "what do you think your going to do?"he needed to stop where he was and drop the bat until law enforcement arrives. He then stopped his asault and followed my command peacefully.

I was approached by 2 men that were yelling they were going to F--k me up while I was walking my dog. I didn;t know these men and when I turned around and faced them they saw my gun and the one said to the other just get out of here, now. The presence of the gun was all it took to change their minds. I never had to say one single word to them or draw my weapon.

I honestly could go on for a long time as to how my OC every where I go has prevented a violent crime without ever firing a singe shot. If more law abiding citizens would OC it is only common sense that violent crime would drop by tremendous percentages. The bad guy doesn't pick an armed person to violate, why would they, they're cowards and choose defenseless citizens nearly every time!:idea:

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Great post gamestalker. Law-abiding citizens don't instantly become criminals when they strap on their handgun. And criminals don't care what laws we pass to take away guns or create "gun free zones."

Police are great at responding and trying to catch criminals after murders and other violent crimes have ocurred, but only the victims (hopefully potential victims) can really ensure and provide for their own safety.

Thanks for doing your part to make yourself and others safer, and getting the word out about responsible gun ownership!

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Thanks for the comment bobernet,

Say a couple of things I would like to discuss with you and others. This morning the US Supreme court ruled that all Americans now have been restored the right to keep loaded handguns in their homes for the purpose of self defense. No doubt a major break through for many in states that have long forbiden law abiding citizens from doing such. However, it still insn't enough, as you and I know, to foil the rising crime rate in our beloved country. My question is, what exactly does this law mean in terms of for instance California residents? Is this law only allowing guns to be utilized within the home, and are California residents still restricted from defending their selves in the home, or outside, with the use of deadly force, as has been law for for a very long time. Up until today, it has been a crime to use anything to defend yourself against any circumstance, by any means, including the use, or posession of mace, or any other instrument that could be used, or construedas a weapon, or determinedto bea weapon by its use to defend one's own self.

We still have a lot of work to do, but I think this federal ruling is going to open some cans of worms for the Supreme Courts and possibly make it easier for many states to regain their right to carry for self defense. People are dying every day in states like California because they are not allowed to defend thier selves under any circumstances, and I feel its on our shoulders to be active in getting the public to hear the common sense of carrying. I'm not only refering onlyto firearms either. Ideally firearms would be the choice, but self defense rights have to be the initial implimentation I think. Folks in California need to have some self defense rights restored ASAP before we attempt to take on the big dog, so to speak.I don't travel to states with these rediculous laws simply because I feel vulnerable. Whats your thoughts and ideason this.

Thanks, gamestalker

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Gamestalker,

First off I'd like to introduce myself. I'm a current resident of California, a college student, and I consider myself a fairly laid back guy. I'm browsing the Arizona forums because I'll be moving to Prescott in about a month, and thought I should brush up on the environment in Arizona beforehand (so far I'm psyched!)

I see one major issue with your post regarding self defense in California; mainly the following section:

"it has been a crime to use anything to defend yourself against any circumstance, by any means, including the use, or posession of mace, or any other instrument that could be used, or construedas a weapon, or determinedto bea weapon by its use to defend one's own self."

I know that it may seem the case, but there is a stipulation to this idea of armed self defense. I'm pulling the following right from the California Handgun Safety Certificate Study Guide, created by the Bureau Of Firearms:

"The killing of one person by another may be justifiable when necessary to resist the attempt to commit a forcible and life-threatening crime, provided that a reasonable person in the same or similar situation would believe that (a) the person killed intended to commit a forcible and life-threatening crime; (b) there was imminent danger of such crime being accomplished; and (c) the person acted under the belief that such force was necessary to save himself or herself or another from death or a forcible and life-threatening crime."

In fact, in California, pepper spray containers need to have the following (or equivalent) on them: "WARNING: The use of this substance or device for any purpose other than self-defense is a crime under the law. The contents are dangerous--use with care."

Now, carrying a weapon or tool (walking sticks, billy club, flashlight, baseball bat), etc, specifically for the purpose of self defense is prosecutable. But utilizing a an available tool in a life threatening situation isnot usually prosecuted. If you exceed the bounds of "reasonable" self defense thenthe DA may prosecute for assault, and you'd be charged with violatingCPC 12020 (I think that's the right one)

There was actually a very recent discussion over on the CalGuns forums regarding self defense with a tool or weapon, let me see if I can dig it up.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=80525

There's the thread I was thinking of, tool a little while to find it. The good stuff isn't really until page 4 and on, but it's worth a read.

Note: The above is my understanding of the laws and penal code here in CA. It maybe be wrong, but I try my best!

On another note, I'm really excited to start OCing when I move to Arizona. Here in CA it's a pretty risky venture, especially considering the weapon needs to be unloaded (is that the case in AZ?), and most LEOs don't know the laws....

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WhiteDingo wrote:

Gamestalker,

especially considering the weapon needs to be unloaded (is that the case in AZ?), and most LEOs don't know the laws....

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Not the case here and I can't speak for all LEO's. Firearms aside, I've had pretty damn good experiences with LEO's.

Congrats on the moving to Prescott. Although I'm in the valley now I was born and raised in Prescott and would love to move back if I could find work there. Growing up I don't recall seeing a lot of OC but now that I recently do I'll be in Prescott again shortly visiting family. We'll see how it goes.

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Hi there uberingram,

In Arizona you may carry any firearm loaded on your side so long as

A. At least 2 inches of the holster or firearm are visible.

B. It must be in a holster.

C. You must be at least 18 years of age or have written permission from a legal gardian.

D. You can conceal it any where in your auto so long as it is in a holster and not concealed on your person. example: In your glove box, in the side compartment of the door, under the seat, so long as you inform any law enforcement officer that you have it and where it is when asked.

It is also legal to purchase handguns in Arizona without the need for registration, no permit to carry is neede so long as it is OC, no waiting periods. An instant background check is done at the time of purchse and then you can start carying it as soon as you buy it. That's it. Of course you can't carry into a bar, court house and a couple of other pretty obvious places. But a restaurant, grocery store or any other place that does not sell open alcohol is OK. I've even carried to the court house and they will take care of my firearm for me so it isn't stolen from mycar. Just have to make sure you unload it before you go up to the doors, and leave it in the holster. oh, and never take your gun out of the holster unless you are defending yourself, not even to show it to a curious person if your in a public establishment.And in Arizona we recently had a law passed thatallows us to defend our selves with the use of deadly force andself defensegives us the the right to determine such rather than the responding law enforcement office unless the officer can see evidense at the seen that is clearly a case of foul play. But even so its not like other states where your gun and you are kept until the investigation is completed. But I would suggest looking at our state laws to get a better discription of the laws so you can be aware of things I may have over looked. In other words don't take my word for it, I'm not a lawyer or law maker and certainly don't know all! And welcome to Arizona.

gamestalker

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gamestalker wrote:

Hi there uberingram,

In Arizona you may carry any firearm loaded on your side so long as

A. At least 2 inches of the holster or firearm are visible.

B. It must be in a holster.

C. You must be at least 18 years of age or have written permission from a legal gardian.

D. You can conceal it any where in your auto so long as it is in a holster and not concealed on your person. example: In your glove box, in the side compartment of the door, under the seat, so long as you inform any law enforcement officer that you have it and where it is when asked.

It is also legal to purchase handguns in Arizona without the need for registration, no permit to carry is neede so long as it is OC, no waiting periods. An instant background check is done at the time of purchse and then you can start carying it as soon as you buy it. That's it. Of course you can't carry into a bar, court house and a couple of other pretty obvious places. But a restaurant, grocery store or any other place that does not sell open alcohol is OK. I've even carried to the court house and they will take care of my firearm for me so it isn't stolen from mycar. Just have to make sure you unload it before you go up to the doors, and leave it in the holster. oh, and never take your gun out of the holster unless you are defending yourself, not even to show it to a curious person if your in a public establishment.And in Arizona we recently had a law passed thatallows us to defend our selves with the use of deadly force andself defensegives us the the right to determine such rather than the responding law enforcement office unless the officer can see evidense at the seen that is clearly a case of foul play. But even so its not like other states where your gun and you are kept until the investigation is completed. But I would suggest looking at our state laws to get a better discription of the laws so you can be aware of things I may have over looked. In other words don't take my word for it, I'm not a lawyer or law maker and certainly don't know all! And welcome to Arizona.

gamestalker

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Gamestalker, I was actually refering to LEO attitude towards OC in Prescott but any and all information is always welcome.

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Hello uberingram,

I forgot to address one of your statements regarding the laws of self defense in California. I know what you stated is an honest description of the laws. However, it is entirely the law enforcement officer's own opinion of the situation beingself defense. With that, most cases are considered as not being necessary to defend ones self with deadly force. I grew up in California andmoved back a number of times over the years and have personally encountered situations in which the law enforcement is trained to not recognize self defense as being necessary. Your more likely to be prosecuted for using any form of self defense in california rather than being honestly evaluated do so. My nephew is an attorney in California and he has further advised me on this very fact and how law abiding citizens are being prosecuted for defending their selves. In Az. we don't have to jump through any hoops to defend our selves or someone else. We also don't have to prove that our life is in danger beyond our account of what happened. That doesn't mean we can just shoot someone because we feel they might asault us. But we can defend our life, that of another, or our property. Check with the NRA for more details on this and they will give you a comprehensive description of our gun laws,I may be understating these laws.This is just my personal understanding and experience after living here since 1972. Even though I've never been cited or told I'm in violation of a gun law isn't reason to take what I say as fact, once again. The bottom line is being a responsible citizen and always looking for a viable option to avoid having to draw or use your weapon if possible.I try not to draw attention to my gun and never exploit the factthat I'm carrying. If I need it, its there, that is the only time I think of that weapon on my side. But when someone starts asking questions about why I OC I try to give them a sensible explanation and inspire them to support this part of our 2nd amendment. It doesn't always work out that way, but at least they learn some facts they might have not other wise given thought to.

Hey you said your a college student. Are you going to go to school in Arzona? if so what school are you going to attend?

Good luck and have a nice day!

gamestalker

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gamestalker wrote:

Hello uberingram,

I forgot to address one of your statements regarding the laws of self defense in California. I know what you stated is an honest description of the laws. However, it is entirely the law enforcement officer's own opinion of the situation beingself defense. With that, most cases are considered as not being necessary to defend ones self with deadly force. I grew up in California andmoved back a number of times over the years and have personally encountered situations in which the law enforcement is trained to not recognize self defense as being necessary. Your more likely to be prosecuted for using any form of self defense in california rather than being honestly evaluated do so. My nephew is an attorney in California and he has further advised me on this very fact and how law abiding citizens are being prosecuted for defending their selves. In Az. we don't have to jump through any hoops to defend our selves or someone else. We also don't have to prove that our life is in danger beyond our account of what happened. That doesn't mean we can just shoot someone because we feel they might asault us. But we can defend our life, that of another, or our property. Check with the NRA for more details on this and they will give you a comprehensive description of our gun laws,I may be understating these laws.This is just my personal understanding and experience after living here since 1972. Even though I've never been cited or told I'm in violation of a gun law isn't reason to take what I say as fact, once again. The bottom line is being a responsible citizen and always looking for a viable option to avoid having to draw or use your weapon if possible.I try not to draw attention to my gun and never exploit the factthat I'm carrying. If I need it, its there, that is the only time I think of that weapon on my side. But when someone starts asking questions about why I OC I try to give them a sensible explanation and inspire them to support this part of our 2nd amendment. It doesn't always work out that way, but at least they learn some facts they might have not other wise given thought to.

Hey you said your a college student. Are you going to go to school in Arzona? if so what school are you going to attend?

Good luck and have a nice day!

gamestalker

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I think you should be talking to WhiteDingo. :lol: