Open Carry In MLCC Establishments

Yes, I believe that you are interpreting the MCL correctly; if you have a CPL you may carry a weapon openly at those sites listed.

That being said, anyone with a BAC of >.00% and carrying a weapon is in jeopardy of losing his CPL. I find it hard to believe that anyone who took the time, effort and money to obtain a CPL would throw it away just for a coupla beers in your joint.

However, since your club is private property, you are in control of those who enter.

You have the right to not allow any firearms on your property, period. Anyone on your property and carrying a firearm is then guilty of trepass. You ask them to leave, they don't, you call the cops.

You may want to place a sign at the entrance clearly stating your position. Be prepared for a backlash from gun owners as well as having your establishment listed on local web sites that track 'non gun friendly' places.

IANAL

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I am brand new to this forum and OC in general. I never knew you could OC in Michigan. I was in the very first group in Jackson, MIto get a CPL.

If I am interpreting the laws of OC in Michigan correctly, anyone with a CPL can legally OC in any establishment governed by the Michigan Liquor Control Commission. Is that correct? I own a nightclub here in Jackson and I CC in my bar every night. I'm not against guns or people who legally carry them. However, the thought of people carrying guns in my establishment for all the world to see makes me nervous. Nobody has ever tried to walk in while OC'ing except for the cops making their "liquor inspections". If people can legally OC in my place, do I have the right to not allow them inside or make them put it in their car before coming in? Gun rights are very sacred to me and I hate the idea of me restricting someone elses OC rights. However, I can think of several scenarios where OC in a bar could have devastating consequences. (Drunk guy wants to pick a fight with the "wanna be cop" with a gun.) Anyone?



Patrick



The carrying of firearms in public is also restricted by the Michigan Penal Code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.1 et seq. Section 234d of the Penal Code identifies certain "gun free zones" similar to those enumerated in section 5o of the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act; within those specified zones, the possession of firearms is strictly prohibited, subject to limited exceptions. Specifically, section 234d(1) of the Penal Code provides that:

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2) aperson shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.

(b) A church or other house of religious worship.

(c) A court.

(d) A theatre.

(e) A sports arena.

(f) A day care center.

(g) A hospital.

(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.


This language is significantly broader than that employed by section 5o of the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act. By its express terms, section 234d(1) of the Penal Code applies to firearms generally, not merely to pistols, and applies to firearms whether concealed or not. Subsection (2) of this provision creates several specific exceptions to this prohibition, two of which are germane to your inquiry. It provides, in pertinent part that:

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(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:



* * *

(b) A peace officer.

(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
​

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jmlefler wrote:

Yes, I believe that you are interpreting the MCL correctly; if you have a CPL you may carry a weapon openly at those sites listed.

That being said, anyone with a BAC of >.00% and carrying a weapon is in jeopardy of losing his CPL. I find it hard to believe that anyone who took the time, effort and money to obtain a CPL would throw it away just for a coupla beers in your joint.

However, since your club is private property, you are in control of those who enter.

You have the right to not allow any firearms on your property, period. Anyone on your property and carrying a firearm is then guilty of trepass. You ask them to leave, they don't, you call the cops.

You may want to place a sign at the entrance clearly stating your position. Be prepared for a backlash from gun owners as well as having your establishment listed on local web sites that track 'non gun friendly' places.

IANAL

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I am brand new to this forum and OC in general. I never knew you could OC in Michigan. I was in the very first group in Jackson, MIto get a CPL.

If I am interpreting the laws of OC in Michigan correctly, anyone with a CPL can legally OC in any establishment governed by the Michigan Liquor Control Commission. Is that correct? I own a nightclub here in Jackson and I CC in my bar every night. I'm not against guns or people who legally carry them. However, the thought of people carrying guns in my establishment for all the world to see makes me nervous. Nobody has ever tried to walk in while OC'ing except for the cops making their "liquor inspections". If people can legally OC in my place, do I have the right to not allow them inside or make them put it in their car before coming in? Gun rights are very sacred to me and I hate the idea of me restricting someone elses OC rights. However, I can think of several scenarios where OC in a bar could have devastating consequences. (Drunk guy wants to pick a fight with the "wanna be cop" with a gun.) Anyone?



Patrick



The carrying of firearms in public is also restricted by the Michigan Penal Code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.1 et seq. Section 234d of the Penal Code identifies certain "gun free zones" similar to those enumerated in section 5o of the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act; within those specified zones, the possession of firearms is strictly prohibited, subject to limited exceptions. Specifically, section 234d(1) of the Penal Code provides that:

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2) aperson shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.

(b) A church or other house of religious worship.

(c) A court.

(d) A theatre.

(e) A sports arena.

(f) A day care center.

(g) A hospital.

(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.


This language is significantly broader than that employed by section 5o of the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act. By its express terms, section 234d(1) of the Penal Code applies to firearms generally, not merely to pistols, and applies to firearms whether concealed or not. Subsection (2) of this provision creates several specific exceptions to this prohibition, two of which are germane to your inquiry. It provides, in pertinent part that:

​

(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:



* * *

(b) A peace officer.

(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
​

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"If people can legally OC in my place, do I have the right to not allow them inside or make them put it in their car before coming in?"

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A little explaination goes a LONG way.

I think when most talk about a "bar" we mean a small local bar that you can have a soda and a burger and play a game of pool or darts.

One that you can take the wife and kids to to get some great onion rings or fried mushrooms. A place where "everyone knows your name."

Now in your case, you have a "NIGHT CLUB". I believe you are doing it right, free pat downs for everyone!

You asked:

"If people can legally OC in my place, do I have the right to not allow them inside or make them put it in their car before coming in?"

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The answer is YES, you can post a sign and pat people down and DEMAND that no weapons are brought in to the club.

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I do have several customers who buy alot of very expensive drinks for themselves and their friends and pay with huge knots of money with questionable origins. I don't ask questions.

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Go buy yourself a nightclub, fill it with a whole bunch of thugs and gang bangers. Let them get all liquored up,

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Ok, here's the deal. I own a nightclub that is only open Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, from 10PM to 2AM. That's four hours a night, four nights a week. For a total of sixteen hours a week. My bar does not have a kitchen and we don't sell food of any kind at all ever. Most of my customers show up between 12 and 12:30. My DJs only play hip-hop &rap music. I do have several customers who buy alot of very expensive drinks for themselves and their friends and pay with huge knots of money with questionable origins. I don't ask questions. I give alot of respect to my customers and in return I get alot of respect. I rarely have fights or problems. People looking for a place to relax and sip sodas do not come to my place. Most of the time it is not easy to have a conversation because the music is so loud. On the weekends I have three door guys. One checks ID's, another takes the cover charge, and the last one does a quick pat-down looking for concealed weapons and hidden liquor bottles. People used to tell me that they wouldn't come to my place before I did the pat-downs because they didn't feel safe.I only recentlystarted doing them because of all the empty whiskey bottles we were finding at the end of the night. I'm sure all of my security guys will be lining up for the opportunity to bethe one to wake up the guy who's passed out with his head on the table in the corner with a Glock 9mm strapped to his hip and tell him he's too drunk and has to leave.That conversation will be a very interesting one. Have you ever dealt with a drunk person before? I have MANY times. I can say with experience that drunk people do not have very good reasoning skills and nine out of every ten will try to argue with you and insist that they are not drunk.


It's not hypocrite you're smelling, its fear. All it takes is one gun waved in the air in the direction of a rival gang banger from a person who doesn't care about gun laws or any other law for that matter. Then comes the tidal wave of 500 customers toward the 3 single wide doors that I have located in various parts of the building. If by chance the person who was threatened with a gun pulls his out and legally shoots in self defense, guess what? I'm out of business just like that. Then next week I'm flipping burgers at McDonalds to feed my family waiting for the State of Michigan to call me with an opening so I can get my job back at the prison. That process takes a very long time by the way. And who do you think is gonna be liable if another customer gets hit by a stray bullet? I happen to like my part time, make my own hours, take as many vacations as I want, not EVER have to ask permission for anything job that grosses nearly a million dollars a year. If that means I'm gonna piss off maybe one person out of a million that wants to carry a piece in my bar, I'll take that chance.

By all means use up YOUR entire life savings and then some. Go buy yourself a nightclub, fill it with a whole bunch of thugs and gang bangers. Let them get all liquored up, then encourage them to openly carry handguns in there. Lets see how long you stay in business. I'm not trying to be an A-hole here but try walking in my shoes for a little while. Think about the sacrifices I've made to get to where I'm at. Then realize how quickly it can all disappear just by one small mistake made by someone else. At this time there is only one person in my bar that carries a gun and that's me. It's gonna stay that way as long as I'm the one in charge. You sir, are entitled to your own opinion and I respect that. If I owned a restaurant, bookstore, coffee shop or any other kind of business other than what I have now. I would gladly allow the open carrying of handguns at any time. In my opinion guns and alcohol don't mix and alcohol is all I serve. Does anybody else in here agree with me or am I just the jerk who's trying to step on everyone elses rights?



Patrick Colligan

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I never said anyone called me an a-hole. I just wanted everyone to know that I was not trying to be an a-hole in response to Vernator when I suggested he go buy a nightclub and encourage people to OC in there. Just wanted him to get a better feel for my situation.



Patrick

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Yep, I'm gonna be here for the long haul. Does Kimberguy want to have a picnic or something in Jackson? I'll be there for that for sure. I've never actually OC'ed before. I always CC. One of these days I'll get the nerves up to do it. I'm kind of a quiet guy and I keep to myself. I hate conflict especially with LEO's seein how my wife is a District Court Probation Officer here in Jackson County not to mention the 2007 Employee of The Year. The judges know me by name. Could be a sticky situation for her at work if ya know what I mean.



Patrick

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