Are you happy with the Heller ruling

1. The Swiss government routinely sells surplus machine guns, submachine guns, anti-tank weapons, anti-aircraft guns, howitzers and cannons to its own citizens with no problems (though they must get an easily obtained license from their canton of residence to purchase.)

2. I work with ex-cons every day. The half-dozen or so I know personally are great people who just made mistakes and should have had their 2A rights restored upon release. Two of them have been robbed and one beat up since their release and had no ability to defend themselves in those incidents. I would have no problem with allowing ex-cons to be armed. Besides, if a man cannot be trusted with a gun, they shouldn't let him out of prison in the first place.

3. I understand the idea of the Second Amendment - resistance against government tyranny. The best way to resist tyranny is to allow private ownership of the same weapons our military uses.

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like_the_roman wrote:

1. The Swiss government routinely sells surplus machine guns, submachine guns, anti-tank weapons, anti-aircraft guns, howitzers and cannons to its own citizens with no problems (though they must get an easily obtained license from their canton of residence to purchase.)

2. I work with ex-cons every day. The half-dozen or so I know personally are great people who just made mistakes and should have had their 2A rights restored upon release. Two of them have been robbed and one beat up since their release and had no ability to defend themselves in those incidents. I would have no problem with allowing ex-cons to be armed. Besides, if a man cannot be trusted with a gun, they shouldn't let him out of prison in the first place.

3. I understand the idea of the Second Amendment - resistance against government tyranny. The best way to resist tyranny is to allow private ownership of the same weapons our military uses.

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The big difference between the Swiss and the US is that in Switzerland the citizens are the military. Their entire army is a militia, albeit it very well organized. If you ask them whether they fear a tyrannical government, the question seems sort of strange to them - it's like asking if they fear the butcher or the school principal or the youth pastor. They see each other at work, at church, and on the ski slopes. They compete on the range twice a year, and the company commander owns the dairy. What do you mean, "do I fear the government? I am the government."

Here are just a few anecdotes about Swiss life:

1. My parents were drinking coffee at a table on the sidewalk in Bern when the President of the Confederation walked by, alone. They recognized him, stopped him, and he sat and chatted with them a few minutes before going on to the Parliament house to do some politics.

2. One summer my family and I rented an apartment in the mountains from a Swiss guy. He and his wife lived on the upper floors of the house. I came back from a stroll through the village, and the guy was pulling weeds from his lettuce patch. We chatted a few minutes, then he checked his watch and said he had to go. He reached for his fully automatic rifle leaning against the wall next to a hoe and a shovel, strapped it on his back, and went to the range for practice. His hands were still dirty. All that day we heard automatic fire somewhere in the mountains.

3. A friend of mine invited us to his farm for a few days, and we got a tour of his dairy. Past the milking area and the copper kettles was a concrete door about a foot thick. He showed me through, and inside was a really big gun on a gimbal, a ballistics computer, and racks of shells that looked about 3 inches in diameter. A tunnel led who-knows-where. He cranked up a set of thick steel shutters, and then pushed open a pair of wooden barn doors. From the outside, it looked just like a barn until you opened those doors. There was hay in the loft over the gun. If this guy went postal, he could obliterate the village across the valley.

4. I can't tell you how many times I've seen kids walking down the street, driving their mopeds, or riding a train with fully automatic rifles strapped across their backs.

5. A few years ago the Federal government started reintroducing wolves in the mountains. Pretty soon, people started losing sheep, goats, and calves. Pretty soon thereafter, they started finding dead wolves. Federal law requires the Cantonal (State) police chiefs to protect endangered species and prosecute those who shoot wolves. When asked on TV what he was going to do about people killing these wolves, the chief of police of the Canton of Bern said "Nothing. We didn't ask the federal government to introduce these wolves, and I'm not going to prosecute farmers who are protecting their flocks."

When the citizens themselves are responsible for the defense of their nation, when there is no standing army or "special" militia, the citizens have a completely different sense of their standing in the community. They have no reason to fear a tyrannical government.

They are the government.

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I never hear anyone say anything about carrying a pistol outside of their home, I am disappointed in that.

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I for one am unsatisfied with them not including self defense outside the home as being equally fundamental.

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BillMCyrus wrote:

I for one am unsatisfied with them not including self defense outside the home as being equally fundamental.

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Why would you be unsatisfied for not raising a point that was not part of the case being argued?

Heller specifically wanted a gun to keep and use at home.

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c. Meaning of the Operative Clause. Putting all of these textual elements together, we find that they guarantee the individual right to possess and carry weapons in case of confrontation. (page 19)

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Some have made the argument, bordering on the frivolous, that only those arms in existence in the 18th century are protected by the Second Amendment. We do not interpret constitutional rights that way. Just as the First Amendment protects modern forms of communications, e.g., Reno v. American Civil Liberties Union, 521 U. S. 844, 849 (1997), and the Fourth Amendment applies to modern forms of search, e.g., Kyllo v. United States, 533 U. S. 27, 35–36 (2001), the Second Amendment extends, prima facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding.

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