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Thread: OC vs CC a Convert And Why

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    When I first found this site, I was by no means a supporter of OC. In reading arguments from both viewpoints, I am swaying toward OC. FIRST. I REMEMBER THAT THIS IS NOT A WAR! Pro CC or Pro OC; above all we are fervent 2nd Amend. supporters. The only discussion is on the MODE of carry!

    I initaly didn't really care, it didn't impact me. In AZ I can OC, and I spent 30+ years CC as a sworn Special Agent. Under that label, I could go armed (CC) almost anywhere I wanted, including some foreign countries. Then my worse (really 2nd worst) nightmare became real. I became disabled "off the job".

    Making this as short as possible, on bad side, I have a life ending disease. The good news, is that I have two or three years to go. My income fell from 6 figures, to $1,000 p/mo. With the costs of co-pays, drugs, etc., my wife and I were forced to file Bankruptcy. At that time I owned 24 handguns, excluding shotguns, and rifles. The court ordered them seized and sold to meet some of the demand of my creditors. Since then things have only gotten worse. Economics dictates many thinga. including 'where you can afford to live'. Result: Small 1bdr apt.barred windows and doors, gunfire every night, someone killed every night. (read any PHX News site) I live in an area known as the "corridor". It is seven miles long, and about 3 miles miles wide. It is like living in hell. There is something wrong, when I count military time (in a war) and my career I spent a couple of years short of 40 yrs in service to my community and country. It shouldn't end like this.

    We are now indigent, we must decide daily if we get food or my meds. We eat once a day. It is so bleak, that my only means of defending myself and my wife against Home Invasions, robbery, etc., Is my "LOUISVILLE SLUGGER" GOTTA ADMITI WAS BETTER WITH IT WHEN YOUNG, THANI AM AT 60! We have searched for a good used gun, but we always come up $ short. Even .25, .22, .380 are out of reach. I this sewer, I would be totally uncomfortable with any caliber less than .357, and a 5 round CAP.

    I go on with my bat, but given a magic lamp, I'd ask for a 608 with a 61/2 BBL, which would be worn OPENLY, DAILY! Choice 2 would be a physically large 40/45 SEMI AUTO......................CARRIED THE SAME WAY! (but only saved 300)

    I guess that there are circumstances where the argument isn't CC vs OC; it iswooden vs alum.

    OC of a bat is legal, CC raises questions!



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    Alec411 wrote:
    When I first found this site, I was by no means a supporter of OC. In reading arguments from both viewpoints, I am swaying toward OC. FIRST. I REMEMBER THAT THIS IS NOT A WAR! Pro CC or Pro OC; above all we are fervent 2nd Amend. supporters. The only discussion is on the MODE of carry!

    I initaly didn't really care, it didn't impact me. In AZ I can OC, and I spent 30+ years CC as a sworn Special Agent. Under that label, I could go armed (CC) almost anywhere I wanted, including some foreign countries. Then my worse (really 2nd worst) nightmare became real. I became disabled "off the job".

    Making this as short as possible, on bad side, I have a life ending disease. The good news, is that I have two or three years to go. My income fell from 6 figures, to $1,000 p/mo. With the costs of co-pays, drugs, etc., my wife and I were forced to file Bankruptcy. At that time I owned 24 handguns, excluding shotguns, and rifles. The court ordered them seized and sold to meet some of the demand of my creditors. Since then things have only gotten worse. Economics dictates many thinga. including 'where you can afford to live'. Result: Small 1bdr apt.barred windows and doors, gunfire every night, someone killed every night. (read any PHX News site) I live in an area known as the "corridor". It is seven miles long, and about 3 miles miles wide. It is like living in hell. There is something wrong, when I count military time (in a war) and my career I spent a couple of years short of 40 yrs in service to my community and country. It shouldn't end like this.

    We are now indigent, we must decide daily if we get food or my meds. We eat once a day. It is so bleak, that my only means of defending myself and my wife against Home Invasions, robbery, etc., Is my "LOUISBURG SLUGGER" GOTTA ADMITI WAS BETTER WITH IT WHEN YOUNG, THANI AM AT 60! We have searched for a good used gun, but we always come up $ short. Even .25, .22, .380 are out of reach. I this sewer, I would be totally uncomfortable with any caliber less than .357, and a 5 round CAP.

    I go on with my bat, but given a magic lamp, I'd ask for a 608 with a 61/2 BBL, which would be worn OPENLY, DAILY! Choice 2 would be a physically large 40/45 SEMI AUTO......................CARRIED THE SAME WAY! (but only saved 300)

    I guess that there are circumstances where the argument isn't CC vs OC; it iswooden vs alum.

    OC of a bat is legal, CC raises questions!

    Alec, thank you very much for your service to this great country of ours. I and my wife will keep you in our prayers. May God bless and protect you and your family in your time of need. Some of us carry to protect not only ourselves, but those who can't, like yourself.

    Perhaps our fine members from Phoenix can get together and help somehow?

    Stay well and stay safe.

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    BobCav:

    Your warm words, and particularly you prayersare so welcome! Thank You!

    alec

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    Bro,

    I too am currently serving and am stationed at DM. I am sure there is something that we could do for you. There has got to be some kind of fundraiser or donation through paypal or something to get you at the least protection. There are tons of people in the phoenix area that should be able to do something....even a private party sell of a firearm that sits in a safe? that way at least the government wouldnt know you have it and they could never sell it for you.

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    Only-One:

    I really do appreciate your concern Bro. I've let it be know to the "grapevine", and that's really all I can do, I'm afraid. I don't know if you can understand this, but between the USMC and my career as a fed. I've spent my entire adult life in service to my community and country. I never envisioned my life ending like this, but crappy things do happen. What I am left with is my pride, and it's just not within me to beg.

    I am, by far, not the the only person with problems, and I hate the idea of imposing mine on others.

    Again, thank you for caring!

    Alec

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    Alec411,

    PM me, I think I can help you out, not for free, I WISH I COULD, but damn reasonable. I have a Security Six, .357, 4" blue that is begging to be a Home Defense Platform, 3 HKS speed loaders too and some ammo, Remington Golden Saber, full cylinder and 3 reloads.

    CurtM1911
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Dear Curt:

    I can now put 2 + 2 together! Hello neighbor! That is a really beautiful Security Six.

    I hope you got my response!

    Alec

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    Alec,

    I did get your reply, and if you want, the offer is still open, perhaps something for the little lady in your life, you know, to watch your 6. Let me know what you think.

    Curt

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    Hi Bud!

    Got company tonight, will get back to you tomorrow, ok?

    Alec

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    i hope everything works out...i will keep watch on this thread.

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    Have you been to the VA? Whether or not service related, you served in the US Military and they certainly can do something about your meds. Are you a retired Civil Service? If so, did you keep your medical coverage? Have you talked to PHX social services about help with your medical/living bills? Have you contacted the drug manufacturers to get help, perhaps free, scripts? Don't just sit back and feel helpless. There are people and agencies that will help someone who is in need and has served this country. Call the VA first, then Phoenix social services. Do it now! It is not f*****g charity; you paid for it for others during your working career, you are entitled to it now.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    To the OP:

    Which Fed. agency were you a Special Agent for?

    Since military time counts toward a Federal pension, that makes about38 years. Do I understand correctlythat you are sayingyou have a Federalpension of only $1,000 a month after 38 yrs of service, which would be 10% (or less) of your 6 figuresalary (at least 100k)?


    What disease do you have?





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    RESPONSE TO RAIN::



    I am truly sorry that my response has taken so long, and I ask your understanding. In answer ti your questions. I spent more than two tours in S.E. Asia. My of what I did was (and is) highly classed because at that time, congress had forbidden any American presense in those countries. On Clinton's last day in office he reviewed for re-classification, a number of issues. He declassified much of what came to be called oper. PHX. , however, since many of us who were involved in daily, covert, operations on behalf of our Intel folks (guess), were still alive. Rather than expose them or their families to retribution, he renewed the classification of the operations I was involved in. I was in service of my country, and because of my work the lives of thousands of GI's were saved, how can I not feel proudly about that.



    After the military, my partner and I did the college thing, and were recruited by the treasury dept. At that time he & I felt that we would be like any other GS-1811's. This didn't hold true. He and I were TDY'D to many agency's, when our particular skills were needed quietly. More than that I won't go into in a public forum. I remained a SA, and when credited for my military time, I had 30+ years of a life totally dedicated to the preservation of American Freedoms, and the elimination of persons and organizations that sought to bring those things down. I have killed (often), trained others to kill effectively, I've fought, I have 3 hearts (there could be more, if reported) I was, for a while a POW, captured and being taken North to Hanoi. I have been tortured, and if you could see parts of my body you would wonder how I survived. Over the years I've concluded that I survived because of my love of God, my family, and my comrades. Several died when the only reason for their death's was their dedication to keeping me alive to do my work. To them nothing can explain how I feel.



    Your question on my pension: During the course of my divorce proceedings, each party negotiated some things. Sometimes she won, sometimes I won (im told). At that time I was certain that I had a good 25 or so years of pension earning time ahead of me so I STIPULATED THE AMOUNT I HAD EARNED TO DATE! Now that was a civil agreement, and did not involve the gov't. The gov't did all it could, in that area. I hope that answers that question.



    If you go back "in this thread" you can read of how my world was destroyed. The bottom line is, we are destitute, daily we have to chose between food, or my meds. We long ago limited ourselves to a single meal a day. Neither of us has purchased one item of "new" clothes in over a decade. Our car is parked, because we can't afford gas, sound familiar. (in a year when EXXON showed their largest profits EVER..... EVER, at some levels it was raises all around. Each day some federal prison somewhere is releasing prisoners after 5, 10, 15, 20, 30, etc.. years. Some hold me responsible for their being in prison, and they have had time to concoct some crazy ideas. Six years ago my partner took 5, .357 rounds in the back at a target store. He & I had been together our whole time. I was generously give a 90 day LOA, because the know how close we were. In that three years, I dealt with personal business. Detail & Chapter cloesed!



    It hit rock bottom when a Bankruptcy judge ruled that I had to surrender my guns (24) to be sold to satisfy my creditors. I tried to beg the court that I be left with a handgun & an AK -refused! My disabilities (read back in thread) painted a target on my head, and I couldn't even defend my self and family. Yea, I'm dying, but I'm not going for two or so years. I have to protect those I love & teach them how to protect themselves after I am gone.



    Sometimes I get resentful! I find myself saying things like "after all I've done without fanfare, not wanting any, but after a life lived as mine was, to be left without the basic means of self defense; but I snap out of it. I didn't do the things I've done with any expectations of some kind of "payback". Many Gave More & I so little really! Sometimes I will be reading article by a gun writer in G&A, and I get stressed as he discusses his 9 M1911's, 7 Glocks, 4 Khar's, and a couple of "XD's". The man has guns he doesn't shoot & here I sit. Yes at one point, I needed a gun-safe too. Now an empty shoe box is plenty.



    R a i n I apologize, I got carried away in what should have been just answering to questions you asked.



    TO ALL I APOLOGIZE! NUFF SAID!



    ALEC411




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    So you worked for Treasury for those years after the military?

    And what medical condition is making you sick?

    You know, if you're willing to provide documentation of your story.....DD214 from your military discharge, proof of career at Treasury, proof of your medical condition, I and likely others here would probably be willing to help you out.

    So what do you say, Alec?





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    I'd be more than happy to provide a gun for you if I can verify your story. It will be a loan, won't cost you any money, and I'll even provide some ammo for it.

    As a fellow veteran, I can sympathize with your plight, and I'm willing to step up. Please contact me via email to discuss terms. kenpoprofessor@msn.com

    Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

    Clyde

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    You weremaking 100k+ a year before retiring with about 38 yrs Fed service, and relegated to less than 1k a month pension? I have never heard of a divorce settlement anywhere in my lifetime that makes somebody hand overWAY more than half of a pension. And the Fedretirement system is fat-rat lucrative for a long-term employee.

    Thatbankruptcy judge refused to allowyou to keep evenONE firearm to defendyourself with?Have to use a baseball bat now for defense?A bankruptcy judge would not leave youevenONE gun afterbeing a retired Federal agent and having enemies that would love to get even withyou at the Target store likehappened toyour partner?When did that happen, and where is the Target store?

    If you don't have a gundue to the judgemaking you sell all of them, what are you referring to in these posts of yours?

    Aug 10 post: "I regurally shoot at 2 litre bottles filled with color water (TARGET) and I can consistantly (95%+) hit from 100 yards with a handgun. This has nothing to do with what I may or may not do when it gets real."

    Aug 10 post: "I will never place valuables, especially my gun, in the trunk or passenger cabin of my car, "


    If you're destitute and have to choose between food and meds, and haven't bought a new article of clothing in 10 years andeat once a day, what about going to the VA hospital for meds? They will give a destitute VET all the meds he needs.The VA hosp.is right down there in the central corridor here in PHX where you live.

    What's the deal with this post?........

    Aug 31 post: "WORRIED? I am building a Safe Room in the Bunker; with an add-on underground Walmart Food Mart!"

    (I guess things are looking up since you startedthis thread?)




    Besides military duty and 30+ yrs as a Federal Agent,you apparently could fit in time to get 2bachelor degrees, a masters, and a PhD. And become a CPA, too.Must have been very busy. You must have been a very hard worker to get all that done. It's possible.


    June20 post: "My education (thanks to Unc Sam) consits of two BA/BS degrees, my M.B.A, and a PhD."

    June 20 post: "For example I am a (was) a Licensed C.P.A"



    And about those tours in the Nam. Seems most guys know exactly how many tours of duty they spent in a war.

    June 20 post: "After two tours of duty with the USMC as a sniper/tracker in Viet..."

    Aug 14 post: "IN ADDITION TO 3 COMBAT TOURS AS A SNIPER."






    What is the terminal condition? Sorry to pry, but if you're willing totell thatyou have it, why not just say what it is?














  17. #17
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    Rain:

    What part of "nuff said", DON'T you understand?

    alec411

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    Oh those tangled webs we weave. Yeah, I think "Nuff said" pretty much sums it up here.

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    Sounds like BS to me. If I'm right then impersonating a federal agent or a military officer is a federal offence. I'm going to assume I'm wrong but whatever.



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    Reading this thread has made me kinda sick to my stomach.

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    Alec411 wrote:

    ...My of what I did was (and is) highly classed because at that time, congress had forbidden any American presense in those countries. On Clinton's last day in office he reviewed for re-classification, a number of issues. He declassified much of what came to be called oper. PHX. , however, since many of us who were involved in daily, covert, operations on behalf of our Intel folks (guess), were still alive. Rather than expose them or their families to retribution, he renewed the classification of the operations I was involved in. ...








    Good job rain252.




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    Is it classified to read some data from your discharge DD214and list it here? No.

    Is it classified to tell where that Target store is and the apporx date your "partner" was killed? No.

    Is it classified to tell why a VETis apparently not going to the VA hosptital here in PHX when you are saying you can't get meds unless you don't eat? No.

    Is it classified to give some verifiable details about your career as a Treasury Agent? No.



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    The "classified" line is the first red flag a POSER uses.

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    You know, I hate to be a hard-a$$, but sometimes, somebody just has to do it.

    I hate a liar.



    You're right, Snake, it's always convenient to use the "classified" blanket to avoid answering. Interesting that he doesn't want to address even the stuff that there would be no reason to avoid answering. The internet breeds a lot of internet commandos, but it also gives the tools to debunk them.

    Alec, all you have to do is pony up proof of what you have claimed, and I'll eat my words and an apology will be coming your way. Oh that's right....."Nuff said." Nuff to have painted yourself into a corner.


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    I just called the CIA on this guy. Right now as we speak, silent black helicopters are descending over his bunker. Men in black are descending from the helicopters to go get him. They already have an interrogation room set up with no windows, a super bright light, and a metal tray with syringes to makehim talk. I'm just kidding of course.



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