Well said!! my ACLU card is right behind my VCDL, CCW, and NRA membership cards. These are all protected by the gun that is normally openly carried on my hip.Trying to stay on-topic...
Seeing that the ACLU supports freedom of speech (and haven't authored a law that restricts this freedom), and supports the abolition of the draconian anti-drug laws that encourage LEOs to violate guns owners (in addition to other citizens)... the ACLU is actually significantly more pro-gun-owner than John McCain.
It comes down to one's definition of freedom. I believe in the freedom for all people to do what they want, so long as it does not directly harm others. I don't define it as the freedom to be a good Christian. Maybe that's why I support the ACLU. Liberty isn't only about guns.
SNIP
class="forumText"http://www.aclu.org/scotus/2007term/35797prs20080626.html?s_src=RSS
The Second Amendment has not been the subject of much Supreme Court discussion through the years. To the extent it has been discussed, the Court has described the Second Amendment as designed to protect the ability of the states to preserve their own sovereignty against a new and potentially overreaching national government. Based on that understanding, the Court has historically construed the Second Amendment as a collective right connected to the concept of a "well-regulated militia" rather than an individual right to possess guns for private purposes.
Hey there FNG, how about you look up Imperialism's post history before you start ad hominem attacks.IMPERIALISM2024:
To say the ACLU, who has NEVER supported guns, is more pro gun than John McCain is adumbstatement to make when it's right on the ACLU website that they are AGAINST private ownership of guns.
I've gotta think you are an Anti on here fishing to say that.
ACLU POLICY
"The ACLU agrees with the Supreme Court's long-standing interpretation of the Second Amendment [as set forth in the 1939 case, U.S. v. Miller] that the individual's right to bear arms applies only to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia. Except for lawful police and military purposes, the possession of weapons by individuals is not constitutionally protected." — Policy #47
Found right here on ACLU website. http://www.aclu.org/police/gen/14523res20020304.html
[align=left]THAT is more pro-gun than John McCain ??McCain, who has gone on record this year as saying he supports the Second Amendment and HIS personal belief is that "Shall not be infringed" means requiring Permitsis unconstitutional![/align]
[align=left]"McCain also made another jab at Obama in a writen statement, in which he said, "Unlike the elitist view [Obama's] that believes Americans cling to guns out of bitterness, today's ruling ( Supreme court Heller case) recognizes that gun ownership is a fundamental right -- sacred, just as the right to free speech and assembly.""[/align]
[align=left]found right here http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/256624[/align]
[align=left]Yousay the ACLU who states only the military and police should have guns is MORE pro-gun than McCain who says gun ownership is SACRED, the same as free speech? [/align]
[align=left]You are smoking some really good dope in PA, if that is really where you are from, if you believe what you posted. Or you are an Anti-gunspy on here only to stir up Obama bull$hit and try to trick people into supporting the ACLU, an anti-gun organization.[/align]
Well slickrock, I'll take your personal attacks with a good chuckle, and an indication that I did not properly explain myself.
Note that I said "pro-gun-owner", not "pro-gun". As I look at it, there are many aspects to being a gun owner, and the government makes contact with gun owners in many ways. But let's get the clearly gun-related issues out of the way. McCain supports an Assault Weapons Ban, as well as "background checks" for private transactions (closing the "gun show loophole"). The ACLU supports leaving gun control up to the states to decide. Looking at that, neither one belives the Second Amendment "shall not be infringed". I'll be interested to see how the ACLU reacts post-Heller. Regardless, McCain is generally talking out his ass by saying he believes the Second Amendment is a "fundamental right"... if it were so fundamental, he wouldn't be advocating so many "reasonable" restrictions on it. So here, McCain=0, ACLU=0.
However, there are aspects of gun ownership not directly involving guns. Take free speech. The ACLU has historically come out very much in favor of free speech, no matter if you are a good Republican, a good Democrat, or a person who thinks for himself. On the other hand, there's thing that put limitations on the free-speech rights of gun-rights advocacy groups (among others, of course), something called the McCain-Feingold Act. McCain=0, ACLU=1.
Now let's look to searches and seizures. The ACLU supports the 4th, 5th, and 8th Amendment rights of the individual against an overzealous government. You know, "civil liberties". McCain supports the PATRIOT Act, which gives the government more authority to be overzealous. McCain=0, ACLU=2.
In a less general sense, McCain supports the "War on Drugs", the War on Immigration, and other Prohibitions that function to A) give more police power to the state and B) increase crime through pushing such activities underground. Neither of which is advantageous to gun owners. It doesn't matter if you're being illegally searched because you're open carrying, or because you "fit the profile of a drug dealer", you're still being violated. The ACLU supports drug legalization, the rights of immigrants, and other policies that would stop criminalizing such malum prohibitum offenses, and that would eventually act to help gun owners to be left alone in the long run. A more tenuous argument, perhaps, and one that really deserves more than a paragraph to explain fully.
Final score? McCain=0, ACLU=3. As I said before, gun ownership is about more than just guns. I never said (in this thread) that Obama is better for gun owners than McCain. It can be argued that he is in fact better for gun owners, but I made that argument in another thread... can't find it at the moment, though.
Anyone else want to chime in?