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I was illegally detained and falsely charged

Prophet

Prophet

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Feb 29, 2008
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Earlier this morning, around 3am I was a bit hungry so I went to my local McDonalds to get a quick burger. I was open carrying as normal. This is what ensued:


(edited due to pending lawsuit)


I was hassled by police.
 
M

mjf

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Honestly, I'm sort of surprised you're firearm wasn't seized, checked in the PSP database, and stolen by the police.
 
P

pacrimescode5904

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I agree with the masses. Get a lawyer (firearms specialist search the internet). Stop talking/posting.
 
P

Pa. Patriot

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I've attempted to contact Prophet in hopes of offering some assistance.
We have several problems here.

1) Police that again do not know the law.
2) Police that show contempt for someone who does know the law and points out the law to the responding officers.
3) An illegal ordinance on the books in Pitt.

1+2+3 = a citizen 100% ILLEGALLY harassed and cited for an unenforceable code violation.

1 & 2 can be addressed by legal suit and/or public education (putting them in the news and going to city council to scold them) as well as personal activism (send them a letter/training memo, etc)

3 will have to be dealt with at city council. We are already working on that behind the scenes with some folks who have experience with that and will post up a plan.
 
P

PisnNapalm

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Prophet....

1. Stop posting info online.
2. Contact Pa. Patriot.
3. Get legal counsel.

You may want to ask over at PAFOA.org if anyone in the Pgh. area can recommend a good attorney for a case like this.
 
D

DJP

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Hi, new to the forum, came here to try and educate myself on the issue. The City does indeed have a ordinace 607.9 I believe which regulates the carrying of firearms, open or otherwise to those who have permits or are exempted. Since the law was codified the officer's themselves or the department are really not liable for damages to you, as they were acting in good faith, however you may be successful in having the ordinance overturned. As for the response, considering this was a McDonalds that a week ago there was a double shooting at and the limited information that can be put over the radio quickly. I.E. "Out with a man with a gun at McDonalds." A dozen police officers responding doesn't sound out of line.

I'd like to post more but am short on time,
Best
 
U

UTOC-45-44

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Morgan, Utah, USA
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DJP wrote:
Hi, new to the forum, came here to try and educate myself on the issue. The City does indeed have a ordinace 607.9 I believe which regulates the carrying of firearms, open or otherwise to those who have permits or are exempted. Since the law was codified the officer's themselves or the department are really not liable for damages to you, as they were acting in good faith, however you may be successful in having the ordinance overturned. As for the response, considering this was a McDonalds that a week ago there was a double shooting at and the limited information that can be put over the radio quickly. I.E. "Out with a man with a gun at McDonalds." A dozen police officers responding doesn't sound out of line.

I'd like to post more but am short on time,
Best
Click to expand...

BUT....STATE Preemption OVERRIDES the City Ordinancedue to
a) General rule - No county, municipality or township may in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession, transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition components when carried or transported for purposes not prohibited by the laws of the commonwealth.
Click to expand...

ALL these Officers are awaiting a TREAT. Go a them with EVERYTHING BLAZING.

I was COURTEOUS enough to give the WVC and PD a moment to step back and reevaluate. Next time...I will NOT be so nice.

TJ
 
P

Phssthpok

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DJP wrote:
Since the law was codified the officer's themselves or the department are really not liable for damages to you, as they were acting in good faith....
Click to expand...

If you'll pardon my french.. BULLSHIT!

Ignorance of the law is no defence....at least that's what they tell US when we accidently screw up.

The door swings both ways, and it's (hopefully) about to smack 'em in the ass!
 
T

tdyoung58

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May 11, 2008
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mf wrote:
Honestly, I'm sort of surprised you're firearm wasn't seized, checked in the PSP database, and stolen by the police.
Click to expand...

Haven't you heard? PA has no database for firearms :banghead:

well, I mean a "official" one, so they claim.

and like the others, hush up, contact PA Patriot, get a 'gun' lawyer, like yesterday
 
M

Mike

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May 13, 2006
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Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
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DJP wrote:
Hi, new to the forum, came here to try and educate myself on the issue. The City does indeed have a ordinace 607.9 I believe which regulates the carrying of firearms, open or otherwise to those who have permits or are exempted. Since the law was codified the officer's themselves or the department are really not liable for damages to you, as they were acting in good faith, however you may be successful in having the ordinance overturned. As for the response, considering this was a McDonalds that a week ago there was a double shooting at and the limited information that can be put over the radio quickly. I.E. "Out with a man with a gun at McDonalds." A dozen police officers responding doesn't sound out of line.

I'd like to post more but am short on time,
Best
Click to expand...
I think you are talking about "qualified immunity," a defense to claims in civil suits looked at in federal court under a 2 part test announced in Saucier. The testis (1) was a right violated and (2) was that right clearly established.

Under the facts as alleged above, the law, 6120, preempts City ordiances. And under Pa. S. Ct.'s Ortiz, a case about Pittsburgh, this preemption would seem clearly established.

Now, might the Pittsburgh ordiance help provide some cover to a chanrge of official suppression? Maybe, I don't know, I wonder what HQ told these officers?
 
P

pacrimescode5904

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As a retired city cop and current state park ranger I have to tell you MPOETC does not give one second of training on an individuals right to carry open or otherwise. The only training given is with respect to Act 235 permit holders having to carry their card on their person.

This is definitely a training oversite by the state.
 
P

Pa. Patriot

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Just a "wannabe" in Mtn. Top, Pennsylvania, USA
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Gnbrotz started a thread over on PAFOA on this incident:
http://www.pafoa.org/forum/conceale...ally-detained-falsely-charged-pittsburgh.html


This was an update I posted over there:

Gnbrotz and I spoke with the victim tonight.
The wheels are in motion.

I want to point out that this is NOT the first time he has been hassled by the Pittsburg PD for OC... It is the THIRD time.

He has formally complained prior and the PD seems to think that despite being made aware of their errors in those prior incidents that they can continue to illegally harass law abiding citizens.

I think this "us vs them" attitude displayed by this PD is disgusting and and need of some rehabilitation. We will update as info becomes available, right now the victim is researching some options and we'll post here as things develop or we need help or support (city hall trip anyone?
smile.gif
)
​
 
C

Citizen

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Nov 15, 2006
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Fairfax Co., VA
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Pa Patriot,

Once you're done with these assists, please share your practical knowledge around the forum.

We need a Pa Patriot in each state with the knowledge to assist guys who get fouled by the police.
 
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