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Thread: ATF Raids Blackwater

  1. #1
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    My concern is the Red Colored portion of this article.

    How can that be True ?





    Feds Raid Blackwater in Weapons Probe



    June 27, 2008 Associated Press




    RALEIGH, N.C. - Federal agents raided Blackwater Worldwide this week as part of an investigation into whether the private security company sidestepped federal laws prohibiting the private purchase of automatic assault rifles, the company said June 26.

    Blackwater spokeswoman Anne Tyrrell said investigators with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives searched Blackwater's armory at its corporate headquarters in Moyock on June 24 as part of the investigation. Court documents show that agents seized 22 guns as evidence from a vault dedicated to county authorities.

    The company signed agreements in 2005 in which Blackwater financed the purchase of 34 automatic weapons for the Camden County Sheriff's Office. Sheriff Tony Perry became the official owner of the weapons, but Blackwater was allowed to keep most of the guns at its armory.

    Federal laws prohibit private parties from buying automatic weapons, but allows law enforcement agencies to have them.

    One of the 2005 agreements says the weapons will be kept under "lock and key" and doesn't describe whether Blackwater would use the guns.

    "We believe all aspects of our contracts with the sheriff's office are lawful and proper," Tyrrell said, adding that the ATF has known about the arrangement for a long time.

    Tyrrell also said federal authorities have known about the weapons for years and that investigators got a complete look at the company's cache in 2005 after two employees were fired.

    Kenneth Wayne Cashwell and William Ellsworth "Max" Grumiaux were sentenced this year on gunrunning charges, but they were spared prison time after federal prosecutors asked a judge to approve a lighter sentence because of their ongoing cooperation in a weapons investigation.

    Blackwater said it fired the men after finding they had been stealing from the company. Cashwell operated Blackwater's armory in 2005, Tyrrell said.

    "When these guys were fired, we invited (ATF) in to do a full search of everything we possessed," Tyrrell said. "They did a full audit, and those weapons were there at that time."

    She said it is not unusual for Blackwater to store automatic weapons because the company is licensed to sell, provide training on, or even manufacture firearms.

    Both ATF and U.S. Attorney George Holding declined to comment.

    The 2005 agreements give the sheriff's office unlimited access to the weapons, including 17 Romanian AK-47s and 17 Bushmasters. But Perry has said his department has only used the AK-47s in shooting practice at Blackwater and that none of his 19 deputies are qualified to use them.

    The 34 weapons are registered in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record to the Camden County sheriff. The AK-47s and five of the Bushmasters were stored and used at Blackwater while the remainder of the weapons were assigned to local deputies, Perry had said. Those numbers match with the guns listed on the search warrant receipt filed Wednesday.

    The sheriff did not return calls seeking comment June 26.

    Blackwater is the largest private security firm in Iraq, and it has been under scrutiny as a federal grand jury in Washington investigates the company's involvement in the shooting deaths of 17 Iraqi civilians. The firm is also under investigation for possible weapons smuggling allegations - violations the firm strongly denies.




  2. #2
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    Dustin wrote:
    Federal laws prohibit private parties from buying automatic weapons, but allows law enforcement agencies to have them.

    How can that be True?
    It isn't.

    Facts have never been the AP's strong suit.

  3. #3
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    If you can by a handgun from a gun dealer then you are eligibleto also buy a machine gun.

    The only difference is that you must file paperwork with the ATF and pay a $200 tax. If you want to sell it you cannot just do it privately. You must file paperwork with the ATF to transfer the ownership to another person.

    Some statesdo prohibit you to havea machine gun in their state.


    This can give you a break down of what you can own and in what state.

    http://www.mp5.net/info/sbsconr.htm

  4. #4
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    You need a 200$ tax stamp pergun and I know Blackwater can afford that. So I'm wondering Who? did BW piss off..

  5. #5
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    patriot2008 wrote:
    You need a 200$ tax stamp pergun and I know Blackwater can afford that. So I'm wondering Who? did BW piss off..


    Especially since the guns they took, were recroded by those who took them in their 2005 Audit. :shock:

  6. #6
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    If you can by a handgun from a gun dealer then you are eligibleto also buy a machine gun.

    The only difference is that you must file paperwork with the ATF and pay a $200 tax. If you want to sell it you cannot just do it privately. You must file paperwork with the ATF to transfer the ownership to another person.

    Some statesdo prohibit you to havea machine gun in their state.


    This can give you a break down of what you can own and in what state.

    http://www.mp5.net/info/sbsconr.htm
    Could it be that those guns were made after 1986?
    It's my understanding that the 1986 law prevented the sale of any auto after 1986. Is this correct?

  7. #7
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    Well, they supposedly have a manufacturer's license and are dealing with law enforcement agencies, so I don't see what the problem is, especially after this audit. Then again, a lot of the federal gun regulations are vaguely written so that they can take action if and when they want to (look up the definition of a "dealer" for example). Just hope you stay off the radar after you get a license.

    -ljp

  8. #8
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    ufcfanvt wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    If you can by a handgun from a gun dealer then you are eligibleto also buy a machine gun.

    The only difference is that you must file paperwork with the ATF and pay a $200 tax. If you want to sell it you cannot just do it privately. You must file paperwork with the ATF to transfer the ownership to another person.

    Some statesdo prohibit you to havea machine gun in their state.


    This can give you a break down of what you can own and in what state.

    http://www.mp5.net/info/sbsconr.htm
    Could it be that those guns were made after 1986?
    It's my understanding that the 1986 law prevented the sale of any auto after 1986. Is this correct?
    No... Any machine gun registered with the ATF prior to 20 may 86 can be bought by civilians.

    Guns (made by a company) registeredwith the ATF on May 20 and after cannot be owned by civilians. So the market is smaller now and this has caused the price to go up 10% each year.


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    Blackwater, as a private entity (no matter how quasi-governmental they think they are) is prohibited from buying any automatic manufactured after May 1986.

    They tried to pull a fast one with the equivalent of a felon replying that "No, Officer, that's no my gun! My wife just keeps her gun in my pocket!"

    They did this by paying for 34 automatic rifles, which were registered to a Sheriff's department with only 19 deputies, then graciously offering to "store" them at Blackwater.

    The sheriff could also wind up in hot water over this.

    Here's the quandary: in a showdown between JBTs over a law that should not exist, how do you pick someone to root for?


  10. #10
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    Blackwater is not a law enforcement or the governmentso the only guns they should have had would be any registered prior to 20 May 1986.

    And as I said.. they are very expensive!!

    M-16 will run $12,000 + where a Govt or LE price would be $800 each

  11. #11
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    KBCraig wrote:
    Blackwater, as a private entity (no matter how quasi-governmental they think they are) is prohibited from buying any automatic manufactured after May 1986.

    They tried to pull a fast one with the equivalent of a felon replying that "No, Officer, that's no my gun! My wife just keeps her gun in my pocket!"

    They did this by paying for 34 automatic rifles, which were registered to a Sheriff's department with only 19 deputies, then graciously offering to "store" them at Blackwater.

    The sheriff could also wind up in hot water over this.

    Here's the quandary: in a showdown between JBTs over a law that should not exist, how do you pick someone to root for?
    I have a solution to this situation.

    We take the BATFE and DEA, and stick them on an island with Blackwater, and give both sides lots of guns and ammo. Whoever wins gets sent to Guantanamo Bay. :celebrate

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    imperialism2024 wrote:
    KBCraig wrote:
    Blackwater, as a private entity (no matter how quasi-governmental they think they are) is prohibited from buying any automatic manufactured after May 1986.

    They tried to pull a fast one with the equivalent of a felon replying that "No, Officer, that's no my gun! My wife just keeps her gun in my pocket!"

    They did this by paying for 34 automatic rifles, which were registered to a Sheriff's department with only 19 deputies, then graciously offering to "store" them at Blackwater.

    The sheriff could also wind up in hot water over this.

    Here's the quandary: in a showdown between JBTs over a law that should not exist, how do you pick someone to root for?
    I have a solution to this situation.

    We take the BATFE and DEA, and stick them on an island with Blackwater, and give both sides lots of guns and ammo. Whoever wins gets sent to Guantanamo Bay. :celebrate
    You got my vote!

  13. #13
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    Well maybe Blackwater and Eric Prince have deep enough pockets and enough lawyers to challenge the constitutionality of the closed MG registry.

    I kinda think they are on our side guys.
    Check out this weeks Blackwater Tactical Weekly, they seem happy to see DC gun control go away.

    http://www.blackwaterusa.com/btw2008.../063008btw.htm

  14. #14
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    Blackwater is themodernday Hessians, plain and simple.

  15. #15
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    Oh they got DEEP pockets alright.

    3 months after returning from Fallujah in 05, I was offered 16,500 a month !!!

    The deal was 9 months there, 6 months back for a total of 3 pumps, than you stay back for 12 to 18 months and it starts over again.

    Being that My wife and I were married for almost a year, and had only seen eachother for a couple months, and She was pregnant with our 1st child, And the fact that out of the past 24 months of my life I had spent 21 MONTHS Overseas or Training all over the US !!!

    I kindly told him to..well.. you know

    Money means nothing if your dead ! It only takes ONE round ! and after Fallujah I considered myself fortunate enough to have never been the reciever of that ONE round.





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