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Thread: First night OC, first night hassled

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    I'm no stranger to firearms (growing up my father insisted that I repeatedly take safety courses) but haven't owned one in some years. Until recently. Some unfortunate events led me to the point that I really ought to have a way of defending myself if a situation arose. So I picked up a brand spankin' new S&W .40, holster, defense ammo and some range ammo. I've had it now for a few weeks and it's already letting me sleep better (aforementioned events means my specific address is up for grabs by not so nice people) but after brushing up on my Arizona/Federal rights I decided that I wanted to open carry.

    So I picked up a holster and decided to just get my feet wet, so to speak, by grabbing a soda, smokes and some gas. I roll up to a gas station on the NE corner of Warner and Rural (Chandler, AZ) and park. On my up to the station I'm dutifully checking the store signage looking for No Weapons signs. I see none so I go inside. Pick up a soda and head to the counter.

    Me: Hello there. I'd like a pack of Ca....
    Her: Do you HAVE to carry that with you?
    Me: Pardon?
    Her: That...that...GUN!
    Me: Yes.
    Her: I'd prefer if you would have left that in your car.
    Me: Are you stating your opinion or asking me to leave?
    Her: I'd prefer if you would have left that in your car.
    Me: Ok then, I'm going to go ahead and put this soda back

    So I did. On my way out I tipped my hat and told her to have a fantastic night. As I'm leaving she follows me outside and hovers by my car as I drive off. I went to the gas station across the street and it was obvious the attend there noticed the weapon but was the happiest and cheeriest person I'd met all day.

    Disappointing that I got called out on my first try.

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    Did you ask her , if she'd just moved to AZ from CA?...i open carry all the time while doing training/school in Phx...never had a problem yet...sorry you got hassled on the first day OC'ing...go back into the forums/search user name...read my story on a lady from CA...i turned her opinion around, after talking with her.....John in Sierra Vista

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    I didn't bother asking, sorry.

    I'm an extremely non confrontational person and thought it best to just leave plus, to be honest, I was a tad jittery being that it was my first night OC.

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    uberingram wrote:
    I didn't bother asking, sorry.

    I'm an extremely non confrontational person and thought it best to just leave plus, to be honest, I was a tad jittery being that it was my first night OC.
    Comes with the territory sometimes.

    You'll get better. Just be confident. Walk like youown the place or at least have every right to be there with nothing to hide. Have some pat phrases and replies memorized and practiced. Stay alert to the people in your surroundings.* And have a goal in mind. For example, I want people to ask me about it. It opens the door to one-on-one promotion of 2A. Just this evening I had someone ask about my OC'd weapon. I bet by the end of the next month she's a new gun owner and has a CHP application pending. See my report this evening in the thread Open Carry in NoVA.

    *You can often detect disagreement before the question comes, giving you time to think for a moment, rather than getting caught flat-footed.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Also, might as well try to salvage whatever respect you can.

    I recommend saying something like, "Oh, I'm sorry. I'm happy to respect your property rights. May I pay for this first?"

    If nothing else, you've taken the civil, high-road and shown that you're willing to acknowledge their rights even if they are not willing to acknowledge yours. This actually worked for me once in a little different circumstances. The objector wasn't asking me to leave, just objecting. I sincerely acknowledged the objector's right to have contrary opinion. Within a few weeks I had the astounding experience of hearing the objector promote the 2A to a third person.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    I live right by that station... That lady is freaking nuts.. I would go once a day to buy a drink and every friday night to buy beer. Every time she would ID me for using my credit card and for buying beer. And each time I pulled out my card (credit card) or even got near the counter with beer she would rudely say "You better have ID".

    Oddly other times she wouldnt request anything... Honestly I think she has a mental problem. Someone told me she is a former crack addict and she tells skinny looking girls to not do crack..

    Now I avoid the station at all cost and go down the street.

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    Chuck wrote:
    SNIP I live right by that station...
    Welcome to OCDO!!

    Thanks for the additional perspective.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Chuck wrote:
    I live right by that station... That lady is freaking nuts.. I would go once a day to buy a drink and every friday night to buy beer. Every time she would ID me for using my credit card and for buying beer. And each time I pulled out my card (credit card) or even got near the counter with beer she would rudely say "You better have ID".

    Oddly other times she wouldnt request anything... Honestly I think she has a mental problem. Someone told me she is a former crack addict and she tells skinny looking girls to not do crack..

    Now I avoid the station at all cost and go down the street.
    Honestly, this does not surprise me and I don't plan on returning to that station.

    Thx for the input.

    Edit: I would like to add that tonight went much better. Ran a bunch of errands that included another quick stop, Wal-Mart and an Albertsons. Caught a few wandering eyes but nothing out right. Good times.

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    Welcome, uberingram.

    Lot of Arizona folks here. My brother lives not far from there, but I don't think I've been in that particular station.

    Glad you had a good experience (or at least a "no experience") across the street to balance things out.

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    Chuck wrote:
    I live right by that station... That lady is freaking nuts.. I would go once a day to buy a drink and every friday night to buy beer. Every time she would ID me for using my credit card and for buying beer. And each time I pulled out my card (credit card) or even got near the counter with beer she would rudely say "You better have ID".

    Oddly other times she wouldnt request anything... Honestly I think she has a mental problem. Someone told me she is a former crack addict and she tells skinny looking girls to not do crack..

    Now I avoid the station at all cost and go down the street.
    Watch her flip when you tell her it's against the CC company's merchant agreement to require ID for a credit card puchase! Then tell her you're turning her in to VISA and MC to have her merchant account revoked for violation of terms...

    That'll make her flip!

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    uberingram wrote:
    Chuck wroteThx for the input.

    I didn't say anything

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    Got to love the wandering eyes that follow you when you OC. Sometimes You don't know if there checking you out or the gun.

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    yeah......I was so crushed when a girl that had been watching me at Wal Mart said "that gun is so cool"....~sigh~....and here I had been thinking she was checking ME out:P

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    I recommend saying something like, "Oh, I'm sorry. I'm happy to respect your property rights. May I pay for this first?"
    I agree with the first part of our statement, but if my weapon is not welcome in the store, then neither is my money.

    I would leave the item on the counter and exit the store, to never return.

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    I'll have to find a night when she is working and come in to purchase a beer with my OC shotgun. Just kidding. I am a respectful and courteous person and likewise I expect others to be the same. Sometimes I don't have the time to argue or shop around so I have to put up with bad customer service but when I do have the time, if I am not happy with the establishment I will leave and go to another one or ask to speak with the manager. If a store has a policy, they have a policy. It might be convenient to go to that particular store even if they have a no weapons policy. If the place provides quality customer service and I like their products, I won't have a problem disarming or CCing if they request it. I have to agree, though, that with nasty customer service, they won't get my business. I have been asked politely by certain establishments to either CC or disarm. They usually just say "next time" rather than immediately requiring it. Sometimes I don't come back but sometimes I will depending on again if they were at least polite and professional about it. It is all about mutual respect.

    When they aren't professional, I'm no longer courteous back. In such case, I probably would have told her she is being an ******* and no longer has my business. I would have set the merchandise down and not put it back and then proceeded to leave the store. I then would have turned around and asked her "Why are you following me? Why don't you go back in the store and go bother someone else as I am peacefully leaving?" I really don't care if they call the cops and I've had the cops called on me before. I'm either gone when they get there or am in the process of leaving when they arrive and often they are more interested in the idiot who called them rather than me anyway. These people will be ******** and then immediately call the cops on you when you tell them how ****** their customer service is. Apparently, they feel "threatened" because someone stood up to their BS. Sometimes people need a few choice words before you hit the door and don't come back. Again, I am a courteous person but when I am treated like ****, I am a real bitch back. As to the lady saying "You better have ID" vs. "May I please see some ID?" I would have told her, "I do have ID but with that kind of an attitude you can put the beer back, I'm not coming back to your store, and expect to hear from your manager about this."

    People need to be told off sometimes. Sad to say, some learn but probably most don't. A friend one time was in Fry's Grocery store and had nearly $200 worth of groceries he was about to buy. The lady at the checkout was incompetent and had a bad attitude and he had asked to speak with the manager after she was nasty toward him. The manager was equally rude and unprofessional so right there on the scene, he said, "I'm not doing business with you anymore" and after he had already paid for the groceries and they had been bagged, he told them he wanted a full refund on the groceries. They had to give him the money back and reshelve all $200 worth of groceries. I bet that taught them a lesson but who knows.



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    am i right that the owner/manager is the only one that can ask you to leave the property? so a simple confrontation from a clerk would be no issue? i mean tell her you have the right to carry...explain if needed...and be on your way. If the LE are called i doubt they would even respond.

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    Next time I am in that area, I will drop in, make sure I am OCing, I do have my Az permit but for this one I will OC, and see what happens. I will be polite and everything, but if what's her name gives me some flak, I will POLITELY inform her of state laws regarding firearms. Maybe she will wise up or else have a stroke, just kidding but I will be nice about it all the way. I will let all here know how it goes when it happens.

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    curtm1911 wrote:
    Next time I am in that area, I will drop in, make sure I am OCing, I do have my Az permit but for this one I will OC, and see what happens. I will be polite and everything, but if what's her name gives me some flak, I will POLITELY inform her of state laws regarding firearms. Maybe she will wise up or else have a stroke, just kidding but I will be nice about it all the way. I will let all here know how it goes when it happens.
    Go to AzCDL's Educational Page. Scroll down to the bottom and download the "No Guns = No Money" business card template. There are two files for the front and back of a business card. The file is in Miscrosoft Word and the template is for Avery 8376 or equivalent.

    If enough of you drop off the "no guns = no money" cards instead of cash, it may affect management's attitude. If you get the word out and people come from all over, the stack of cards should be impressive.

    Fred

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    azcdlfred wrote:
    curtm1911 wrote:
    Next time I am in that area, I will drop in, make sure I am OCing, I do have my Az permit but for this one I will OC, and see what happens. I will be polite and everything, but if what's her name gives me some flak, I will POLITELY inform her of state laws regarding firearms. Maybe she will wise up or else have a stroke, just kidding but I will be nice about it all the way. I will let all here know how it goes when it happens.
    Go to AzCDL's Educational Page. Scroll down to the bottom and download the "No Guns = No Money" business card template. There are two files for the front and back of a business card. The file is in Miscrosoft Word and the template is for Avery 8376 or equivalent.

    If enough of you drop off the "no guns = no money" cards instead of cash, it may affect management's attitude. If you get the word out and people come from all over, the stack of cards should be impressive.

    Fred
    It's funny you post this because after I got back home that night I stumbled on that page and had the local print shop print me up some the next day.

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    You handled it well. I generally CC, but often if you look close, it's obvious I have a holster on my belt--like yesterday at the UPS store. Not a strange look or a word, just very friendly ladies at the counter. But this is El Paso county where the Sheriff sends you a congratulation letter when you get your CCW, and goes on record with his approval--and encouragement, of getting the permit. Of course, I'm older so that comes into play. I think young guys get the most hassle, in general, or anyone who looks "suspicious," whatever that means to the other party. Just the way it is.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Gunslinger wrote:
    I think young guys get the most hassle, in general, or anyone who looks "suspicious," whatever that means to the other party. Just the way it is.
    Age has it's advantage. I'm 60 with white hair. Cops never give me a second look. When I work the AzCDL table at guns shows I run acrossyounger menwho look like a human Etch-a-Sketch and think shrapnel is a fashion statement, and wonder why they're hassled when they open carry - usually with their Gatt stuffed in the front of their pants. It's like wearing an "Arrest Me" sign.

    On the other hand, there are the "Strange Ranger" wannabe Rambo types, wearingcamo, a thigh holster, and an offensive t-shirt looking like extras from the movie Deliverance that are presented as the stereotypical gun owner.

    If you're going to carry openly, remember YOU represent ALL gun owners. Look and dress approriately.

    /rant off

    Fred

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    azcdlfred wrote:
    Gunslinger wrote:
    I think young guys get the most hassle, in general, or anyone who looks "suspicious," whatever that means to the other party. Just the way it is.
    Age has it's advantage. I'm 60 with white hair. Cops never give me a second look. When I work the AzCDL table at guns shows I run acrossyounger menwho look like a human Etch-a-Sketch and think shrapnel is a fashion statement, and wonder why they're hassled when they open carry - usually with their Gatt stuffed in the front of their pants. It's like wearing an "Arrest Me" sign.

    On the other hand, there are the "Strange Ranger" wannabe Rambo types, wearingcamo, a thigh holster, and an offensive t-shirt looking like extras from the movie Deliverance that are presented as the stereotypical gun owner.

    If you're going to carry openly, remember YOU represent ALL gun owners. Look and dress approriately.

    /rant off

    Fred
    I hear ya. I'm 25 and dress in clean jeans, tshirt and FORWARD facing hat. Yes I have one arm in a full sleeve tattoo but I'm not going out of my way to look like I should be arrested just for existing. I work at AutoZone for one of my jobs and I had some kid my age come in OC'ing looking like complete ****. Dirty wife beater, hat cocked to the side and the sloppiest looking paddle holster I've ever seen. All I could do was think to myself "Thanks dude. No really, thanks for creating the stereotype that I'm going to get labeled with."

    *sigh*

  23. #23
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    That really sucks, My wife and I are only 19, and when we OC, which is about everyday, we dress nice. Unfortunately sometimes I end up wearing pants with holes in them, but I only have a few good pairs. It sucks.

    Not to mention I wear my hat straight, wranglers, a nice clean t-shirt, some nice boots, and a Springfield XD9 tactical in a Serpa paddle Holster. No tattos or peircings and I'm clean shaven with a military hair cut.

    So yeah, I try to look nice, I hate it when people dress like the person you described.

    I think gun and holster selection may play a part as well. If you have a nice, well maintained quality gun, and a quality holster, people don't seem to notice as much.

    When I had my S&W Model 10 in a brown leather holster, people noticed, but they don't notice me now that I have the XD



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    uberingram wrote:
    I didn't bother asking, sorry.*

    I'm an extremely non confrontational person and thought it best to just leave plus, to be honest, I was a tad jittery being that it was my first night OC.
    Don't worry. It happened to me, too.

    I brought backup with me, and I don't mean the metal kind.

    He's not as adamant about it on foot, but he OC's when he drives.

    Still, I think you handled the situation well. It'll take a few "OMG! GUN!" incidents before you get your routine straight.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    The "I'd rather you left that in your car" line is easily countered with a "I think it would be extremely irresponsible to leave a firearm unattended in a vehicle. That's just begging for someone to steal it."





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