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Thread: carrying in a school

  1. #1
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    Ok guys and gals, you got me curious with the statement about being able to carry in a school. So I went and looked at the law. It appears that CC is NOT allowed at the school except if you are in your vehicle. See this link http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-28-425o. The part of the law that is cited to allow carrying is a more restrictive listing. The way it would appear to work is that if you do not have a CCW then you may not carry in any of the places listed in the first statute. If you do have a CCW then you are able to carry in any of those places EXCEPT those listed in 28.425o. I may be wrong on this but it appears that the CCW limits modify the OC limits. Personally, I would not risk carrying in a school but that is just me.

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    theboyzmom wrote:
    Ok guys and gals, you got me curious with the statement about being able to carry in a school. So I went and looked at the law. It appears that CC is NOT allowed at the school except if you are in your vehicle. See this link http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-28-425o. The part of the law that is cited to allow carrying is a more restrictive listing. The way it would appear to work is that if you do not have a CCW then you may not carry in any of the places listed in the first statute. If you do have a CCW then you are able to carry in any of those places EXCEPT those listed in 28.425o. I may be wrong on this but it appears that the CCW limits modify the OC limits. Personally, I would not risk carrying in a school but that is just me.
    Momz, please review this thread (See Venator);

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/11021.html

  3. #3
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Theboyzmom,

    The carrying of firearms in public is... restricted by the MichiganPenal Code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.1 et seq. Section 234d of the Penal Code identifies certain “gun free zones” similar to those enumerated in section 5o of the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act; within those specified zones, the possession of firearms is strictly prohibited, subject to limited exceptions. Specifically, section 234d(1) of the Penal Code provides that:
    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
    (a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
    (b) A church or other house of religious worship.
    (c) A court.
    (d) A theatre.
    (e) A sports arena.
    (f) A day care center.
    (g) A hospital.
    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws. This language is significantly broader than that employed by section 5o of the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act. By its express terms, section 234d(1) of the Penal Code applies to firearms generally, not merely to pistols, and applies to firearms whether concealed or not. Subsection (2) of this provision creates several specific exceptions to this prohibition, two of which are germane to your inquiry. It provides, in pertinent part that:
    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
    * * *
    (b) A peace officer.
    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
    Similarly, section 237a(4) of the Penal Code prohibits possession of a firearm in a weapon free school zone, a term defined
    in section 237a(6)(d) as “school property and a vehicle used by a school to transport students to or from school property.” Like section 234d(2), the prohibition against possessing firearms in a school zone does not apply to a peace officer or to a person licensed to carry a concealed weapon. Section 237a(5).

    Some people have argued that this exemption only applies to peace officers who have a cpl. However, in Michigan, unless the person is a paid peace officer, he/she does not officially have that status.
    You do, however,specify that the officer in question serves as an unpaid volunteer. Because the exemption contained in section 12a(a) is limited to officers who are “regularly employed,” an unpaid volunteer officer is not exempt from the provisions of the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act and is, therefore, prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol in a designated “gun free zone.” OAG No 7098,supra.
    The officer,to whom this option refers, is considered a normal citizen, not a peace officer. As the opinion states, a preon with a cpl is prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol in one of the gun free zones. To further stress this, the case, the opinion goes on to say:
    A license issued by a county concealed weapon licensing board under section 5b(7) of the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act clearly satisfies the latter exemption. Thus, possession of such a license would enable a reserve police officer to carry an exposed, holstered pistol in the “gun free zones” described in sections 234d and 237a of the Penal Code.
    Hope this helps.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    theboyzmom wrote:
    Ok guys and gals, you got me curious with the statement about being able to carry in a school. So I went and looked at the law. It appears that CC is NOT allowed at the school except if you are in your vehicle. See this link http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-28-425o. The part of the law that is cited to allow carrying is a more restrictive listing. The way it would appear to work is that if you do not have a CCW then you may not carry in any of the places listed in the first statute. If you do have a CCW then you are able to carry in any of those places EXCEPT those listed in 28.425o. I may be wrong on this but it appears that the CCW limits modify the OC limits. Personally, I would not risk carrying in a school but that is just me.
    Dr. Todd mentions an AG opinion, but doesn't mention which one.

    This is the opinion number for your reference.

    Opinion No. 7113

    Similarly, section 237a(4) of the Penal Code prohibits possession of a firearm in a weapon free school zone, a term defined in section 237a(6)(d) as "school property and a vehicle used by a school to transport students to or from school property." Like section 234d(2), the prohibition against possessing firearms in a school zone does not apply to a peace officer or to a person licensed to carry a concealed weapon. Section 237a(5).

    You can carry openly with a CPL in these listed places.


    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Ok - I am a little dense here - that opinion specifically addresses a reserve peace officer. I know that she made a reference to the exemption for CPL holders but only in the context of working as a reserve officer. Do we have an opinion that does not specifically address officers, but rather just ordinary citizens?

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    or to a person licensed to carry a concealed weapon.

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    A point of clarification...


    A CPL holder is legally able to "open carry" in all the places prohibited from concealed carry as listed...correct?



    Thank you

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    Silence214 wrote:
    A point of clarification...


    A CPL holder is legally able to "open carry" in all the places prohibited from concealed carry as listed...correct?



    Thank you
    Welcome to OCDO Silence.

    Please review this thread, especially, the first post by Venator.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/13328.html

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    Welcome to OCDO Silence. Please review this thread, especially, the first post by Venator.




    SpringerXDacp wrote: Opinion No. 7097 January 11, 2002… A person licensed by this state… to carry a concealed weapon….By its express terms, section 234d prohibits certain persons from carrying a firearm in the enumerated places but explicitly exempts from its prohibition “[a] person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.” Thus, any person licensed to carry a concealed pistol, including a private investigator, is exempt from the gun-free zone restrictions imposed by section 234d of the Penal Code and may therefore possess firearms while on the types of premises listed in that statute.

    “Your analysis is correct. Non-CPL pistol free zones do not apply to CPL holders. The CPL pistol free zones only apply to CPL holders carrying a concealed pistol. Therefore, a CPL holder may openly carry a pistol in Michigan's pistol free zones.”





    Thank you for the welcome.

    I have read the post and I need clarification



    This says to me that a CPL holder is able to open carry in all the gun free zones.




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    Therefore, a CPL holder may openly carry a pistol in Michigan's pistol free zones.”
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


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    Therefore, a CPL holder may openly carry a pistol in Michigan's pistol free zones.”

    Then a CPL holder may openly carry in these places...


    (a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.

    (b) A church or other house of religious worship.

    (c) A court.

    (d) A theatre.

    (e) A sports arena.

    (f) A day care center.

    (g) A hospital.

    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts


    SO I can (because I have a CPL), open carry at COMERICA park or my local theatre or at any hospital or school or municipal building...correct?

    This just doesnt seem to be what the law is saying





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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Silence214 wrote:
    Therefore, a CPL holder may openly carry a pistol in Michigan's pistol free zones.”

    Then a CPL holder may openly carry in these places...












    (a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.






    (b) A church or other house of religious worship.






    (c) A court.






    (d) A theatre.






    (e) A sports arena.






    (f) A day care center.






    (g) A hospital.






    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts












    SO I can (because I have a CPL), open carry at COMERICA park or my local theatre or at any hospital or school or municipal building...correct?











    This just doesnt seem to be what the law is saying























    YES you can and break NO firearm law. But Comerica Park for example, is Private and can ban weapons, if you did not leave you could be charged with trespassing. In fact as I often have said, all of the restricted zones are private and you have to abide by their rules (perhaps not a county owned hospital). But if you had permission from the owner of a bar you can openly carry there. As for courts you can carry in them with permission from the judge. The MSC passed a rule saying no firearms in court ROOMS, not court buildings. So even though we could OC in these places most have weapon bans. So it's more of a philosophical discussion, then practical. But some of us do carry in some of these places with permission.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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