June WAC gunshow

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Ok, you made me stop lurking. The WAC is the most Pro-Gun lobby that I am aware of that is local to Washington State. It is cheap to join, and allows them to attempt to protect themselves from those that would shut down gun shows all together. Same with the ties, they do not need issues, and believe it or not, I've attended two shows, not WAC, that had accidental discharges. In non-member shows people will bring in, loaded, what they don't know anything about, like something they inherited.

I'm very fussy about any gun shop that would not allow carrying, but a shop is not quite the same as a show, which is more of a free for all festival. WAC does not mind if you carry at all, just unload it and strap to deactivate it, if only so when the guy says "what ya got there?" you don't have an issue with the impromptu business or friendly talk.

And yes, you should not be walking into a gun store with a loaded weapon you intend to try in holsters, or trade or whatever. I do carry loaded if I'm not going to remove it.

Finally, I would really like to applaud every one here for open carry. I have not OC in Washington, but did so for 11 years in Arizona, and CC here in Washington for the last 25 years. Damn, dated myself.

And thanks to DaveCav for telling me about this site, absolutely fantatistic info, and it is great to be amongst fellow patriots.

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Falcon Show is very small. One building at the Skagit County Fairgrounds. I go to it alot because I live nearby. The drive will be 3 times longer than what it takes to see the show.

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Rainman wrote:

...I've attended two shows, not WAC, that had accidental discharges.

WAC does not mind if you carry at all, just unload it and strap to deactivate it, if only so when the guy says "what ya got there?" you don't have an issue with the impromptu business or friendly talk.

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There was a great video of an OC group in Virginia. The reporter was surprised that when someone asked, “Whatcha got there?” not one person un-holstered, they simply turned to face the speaker and showed their firearm.

Every argument I’ve heard for the WAC policy is the same argument Chicago and D.C. use to disarm their citizens:
It’s safer if everyone is disarmed except police/security
Nobody needs a gun here
Stupid people doing stupid things could get someone hurt

If someone un-holsters their loaded firearm away from a clearing barrel they should be promptly reported and expelled from the show. Washington has laws regarding actions that ‘warrant alarm for the safety of others’, an accidental discharge should result in an arrest. The responsible people should not have to disarm due to the idiocy of others. And seriously, if the WAC members cannot safely handle a loaded firearm, what the hell are they doing selling them to each other?

The WAC show demands you unload, yet Sportsman’s Warehouse and Cabela’s does not. That speaks volumes.

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I have one and sometimes two tables at the WAC show for most of the shows. I also work at Sportsman's Warehouse gun counter.

To compare the two is not even close. In any given week at Sportsman's, I will see 8-10 guns come into the store. These are usually for scope mounting or holster fitting. The occasional CC will open their coat and ask if it is OK to try the holster, and they are informed as to procedure. Exit store, unload, check gun at customer service and come back.

At the WAC, I will see 40-50 people pass my table in a matter of 5-10 minutes. Some are carrying long guns some with hand guns. The sheer volume alone increases the risk factor.

It is relatively easy to keep track of a customer or two with several sales people on the floor, but try to keep track of 5-600 when you are trying to monitor your table, conduct a sale, pass out OC pamphlets and just plain BS with anyone who will listen.

I don't like the tied and empty rule any more than you, but I do recognize the inherent danger of not having this rule.


As far as camera cell phones, In the past the anti's have sent in underage people who appearto be of legal age to own hand guns. They make a purchase and it is documented on film. It is now normal practice to not only check the WAC id, but a picture ID as well.

This last show I had a man with his young son wanting to buy my m1 30 carbine. he stated he had left his member ID at home. I told him to go to the membership counter and they would give him a replacement. he never returned. Why? because he was not a member.

Your membership is conditioned upon a WSP background check, the same as for a CPL. Don't pass the background, no membership.

If you do not want to attend the WAC, then by all means stay away.

I would like to see more people there. If you are not involved in the shows, there is no way you can make an informed comment about them. Only a prejudicial remark.

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Dave Workman wrote:

jbone wrote:

Not to offend anyone. I went to a WAC show for my first time a few months back at the Evergreen Sate Fair Grounds and was very disappointed that I was not able to bring in a firearm in for possible trade/sale and could not carry; state CPL license meant squat! I though it weird a gun show not allowing guns unless you paid them yearly dues. Never encountered a gun show like that before. Are there any other show’s touring the area that are gun friendly?

They even said no cell phones allowed that have camera, who the hell even makes one now days with-out a camera? I wasn’t touring a top secret government facility!

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WAC has rules. It's a members show, which means non-members cannot bring in firearms, and they don't allow cameras inside because anti-gunners can take photos, too and use the images to campaign against gun shows, which is high on their agenda.

Non-members cannot trade/sell firearms. period. You want to trade/sell, join the WAC.

All shows in this state disarm you, in violation of all they claim to support, your 2A rights. Therefore, I no longer attend gun shows or have memberships in organizations putting gun shows on.

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You are not disarmed if you are a member, but no loaded guns are allowed inside as part of the contract with the fairgrounds management, and certainly as a safety issue.

Don't boor me with "well I ain't gonna have an accident" because that doesn't wash. Couple of years back a guy in Georgia whipped out his piece to "fit it to a holster" and in the process the gun discharged and this guy's kid took one in the chest and died on the spot.

There have been at least two NDs at Puyallup gun shows of which I am personally aware.

I get really tired of gun people who insist "that'll never happen to me!" who then exhibit some of the worst gun safety skills on the planet, bad enough to qualify them for the DEA VIDEO STAR OF THE YEAR award.

Anybody who believes that "rules don't apply to me" on someone else's turf, or even on their own turf, is foolish.

WAC has thousands of pro gun fanatics in its membership, but they understand the rules and agree to live with them.

I have had "I'm safe with my gun" arrogant twerps sweep me with the muzzles of their guns.

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I hate to say this but an unloaded gun means you are unarmmed. You might as well carry a frigging rock for all the good it would do you if you needed it right now. Hell the WAC shows even make venders tie their personal guns. Their security guys are mostly a joke too and even if they are wrong and they are way to often, they don't apologizes.

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Mainsail wrote:

Rainman wrote:

...I've attended two shows, not WAC, that had accidental discharges.

WAC does not mind if you carry at all, just unload it and strap to deactivate it, if only so when the guy says "what ya got there?" you don't have an issue with the impromptu business or friendly talk.

Click to expand...

There was a great video of an OC group in Virginia. The reporter was surprised that when someone asked, “Whatcha got there?” not one person un-holstered, they simply turned to face the speaker and showed their firearm.

Every argument I’ve heard for the WAC policy is the same argument Chicago and D.C. use to disarm their citizens:
It’s safer if everyone is disarmed except police/security
Nobody needs a gun here
Stupid people doing stupid things could get someone hurt

If someone un-holsters their loaded firearm away from a clearing barrel they should be promptly reported and expelled from the show. Washington has laws regarding actions that ‘warrant alarm for the safety of others’, an accidental discharge should result in an arrest. The responsible people should not have to disarm due to the idiocy of others. And seriously, if the WAC members cannot safely handle a loaded firearm, what the hell are they doing selling them to each other?

The WAC show demands you unload, yet Sportsman’s Warehouse and Cabela’s does not. That speaks volumes.

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I believe it be loaded and carrying everywhere, but it is not the same at a gun show, or at the range while changing targets. A gun show is equivalent to a swap meet, trading guns, handling guns, much more so than even a typical gun shop. WAC is prepared for your loaded gun, they have a station to unload it safely. Now telling me I cannot have my firearm in the show, now I would be pissed.

I can tell you this, I've seen WAC do more to protect our rights than probably the whole lot of you put together, now compare that with Cabela's.

As I've said, I've carried for, heck, it has been 33 years now, now that I rethink the math, and I have no problem having my gun in a safe mode in a gun show. Now, if guns were not "handled", then my tune would dramatically change, and I would be upset that they of all people would not be bettersupporting our right to carry loaded.

Oh, and BTW, the one accidental I can remember, they were clearing a loaded 45 in the gun show in Everett. Boom, round down into the floor, and yes, it was upstairs in that building. I was actually carrying loaded in that show, and did not find the "tie down" station until I was on my way out. Again, it was not run my WAC.

And I also do agree with you, it is the duty of every gun shop, gunshow and all to not make it appear bad to carry loaded. We just need a good way to do it at gun shows that would be "practical", like maybe more unloading stations. At a gun shop, I would go back out to my car and clear my gun, not so easy at a gun show where my car is a long distance from me and I've just spotted an unexpected great deal.

WAC does deserve our membership, how many gun shops actually have lobbiest in Olympia?

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Ok , So how do you join WAC? And if you have CPL do they do their own backround check on you? Or will your CPL do? What is the cost?

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Rainman wrote:

WAC does deserve our membership, how many gun shops actually have lobbiest in Olympia?

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I'll lobby for ammo! Any gunshops in Oly need a part time lobbiest? Heck if I can sell newspapers in this town and make a living at it, how hard can it be to pester a politiican critter or three?

WAC gets my membership and money when they don't piss about my loaded gun on my hip.

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I was a WAC member for a year and went to two of the Monroe shows. I won't be re-upping my membership that expired back in December until there are some changes, and I'm not talking about the unload-and-tie rule, as I'm mixed on my opinion there.

TWICE, when I went to testify in Olympia in front of the Committee for Higher Education, I was joined by representatives from the NRA, CCRKBA, and the Hunter's Association... but no WAC; twice. I took the time out of my day (and out of my classes) to go down there because it was important to support my rights as a firearms owner and a student at a higher education institution. I was VERY disappointed in WAC that they couldn't even show up, as did the other major Pro-2A groups. I can't support a group that can't put the effort into supporting my 2A rights when they're being assaulted directly with legislation.

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ghosthunter wrote:

Ok , So how do you join WAC? And if you have CPL do they do their own backround check on you? Or will your CPL do? What is the cost?

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http://www.washingtonarmscollectors.org/

They will run a background check whether you have a CPL or not.

It costs $35 per year.

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just_a_car wrote:

I was joined by representatives from the NRA, CCRKBA, and the Hunter's Association... but no WAC;

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Did you ask them why? Maybe the guy that was supposed to be there was run over by a train or something. Who knows. Might be good to find out what the whole story is before we all cancel our memberships.

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Rainman wrote:

I believe it be loaded and carrying everywhere, but it is not the same at a gun show, or at the range while changing targets. A gun show is equivalent to a swap meet, trading guns, handling guns, much more so than even a typical gun shop. WAC is prepared for your loaded gun, they have a station to unload it safely. Now telling me I cannot have my firearm in the show, now I would be pissed.

I can tell you this, I've seen WAC do more to protect our rights than probably the whole lot of you put together, now compare that with Cabela's.

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This is a nonsensical argument. I was not disparaging the members or the lobbying efforts of WAC, only their gun show policies. In fact, I know or know of several members for whom I have a tremendous amount of respect. As for “the whole lot of you” comment, that is so erroneous it’s insulting. I carry safely every day and every day I exercise and demonstrate safe and responsible firearms ownership and carry. The WAC show can only do so by enforcing a D.C. style gun ban.

Since you brought it up, however, I contend that the policy (not the organization) actually does much more to harm our rights than even the Brady organization. The gun show policy literally screams, “People are too irresponsible to safely handle firearms; guns are a danger even to those familiar with them”. After all, if we cannot trust experienced gun owners to carry loaded firearms in public, what does that say to the leaders in Olympia about us? When our legislators gather to debate the next round of pointless gun regulations like “gun-free safe zones” or “no loaded firearms at public gatherings”, all they need do is point to the Washington Arms Collectors show policy. I don’t disagree with their policy just because it disarms me, but because of what the policy says about firearms and firearms owners.

You can defend WAC the organization all you like, but that’s not what was being discussed. WAC will never get my membership, support, or one single penny of my money as long as they continue to have a policy that is detrimental to my firearms rights. A safe gun show is possible without a draconian gun ban.



EDIT to add:

OK, look at these two statements. Do you see the problem?

WAC is prepared for your loaded gun, they have a station to unload it safely.

Oh, and BTW, the one accidental I can remember, they were clearing a loaded 45 in the gun show in Everett.

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A firearm tucked in a properly fitting holster will not discharge. It’s only when you start fooling with it that you increase your chances of having a negligent discharge.

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I don't have a problem with stores that have you unload your gun before checking for holster fit and such; this is common sense, that if you are messing around with your gun while loaded, trying to fit it to holsters that may not be specifically designed for it, etc, that a ND is a likely possibility. Even if it was not a requirement, I would do so to feel safe that the chance of a discharge while fitting the gun would be almost nonexistent. Why cannot WAC do the same? Make sure that the rule be, if you are going to be fitting your gun to a holster, or pulling it out for ANY reason while at the show, to fit an accessory, etc, that it must be unloaded before doing so. Once you are done, you can go outside, reload, reholster. If you are not intending on removing your gun from it's holster while you are in the show, no need to unload, since if it remains in the holster, no chance for an ND. Why is this so hard to implement?

As it stands now, I will not become a WAC member, when I can go into a local shop, pay less, no "membership", and get just about anything I want right there......and I am treated like an adult and allowed to carry my holstered weapon into the store.

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There is no difference between the logic employed by WAC and that of Mayor Richard Daley in Chicago: "guns are dangerous and it is for our safety".

WAC's directors are guilty of pure hypocrisy on this issue. I'm not a member of WAC and will never join as long as they have a policy to create a disarmed victims zone. Their policy actually creates unnecessary risk by all of the unholstering, reholstering, unloading, and reloading when entering and exiting.

I recall an e-mail that Joe Waldron once sent out to a Yahoo group defending the policies of WAC. He stated that the property owner threatened to shut down future gun shows if their were any accidental discharges. Again, I disagree with WAC because they have multiple options:

1) Pick a location where they don't have a threat hanging over their head.
2) Stop inducing unnecessary risk by forcing people to holster/unholster, and unload/reload upon entrance and exit.
3) Implementation of a policy upon which holstered pistols must stay in the holster, but everything else has to be tied up.

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Mainsail wrote:

The WAC show can only do so by enforcing a D.C. style gun ban.

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Actually a D.C. style gun ban would be one where you would have to register your handgun with the WAC prior to 1976 in order to be allowed to leave it at home, disassembled, and with a trigger lock whenever you went to the gun show.

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Mainsail wrote:

Rainman wrote:

I believe it be loaded and carrying everywhere, but it is not the same at a gun show, or at the range while changing targets. A gun show is equivalent to a swap meet, trading guns, handling guns, much more so than even a typical gun shop. WAC is prepared for your loaded gun, they have a station to unload it safely. Now telling me I cannot have my firearm in the show, now I would be pissed.

I can tell you this, I've seen WAC do more to protect our rights than probably the whole lot of you put together, now compare that with Cabela's.

Click to expand...

This is a nonsensical argument. I was not disparaging the members or the lobbying efforts of WAC, only their gun show policies. In fact, I know or know of several members for whom I have a tremendous amount of respect. As for “the whole lot of you” comment, that is so erroneous it’s insulting. I carry safely every day and every day I exercise and demonstrate safe and responsible firearms ownership and carry. The WAC show can only do so by enforcing a D.C. style gun ban.

Since you brought it up, however, I contend that the policy (not the organization) actually does much more to harm our rights than even the Brady organization. The gun show policy literally screams, “People are too irresponsible to safely handle firearms; guns are a danger even to those familiar with them”. After all, if we cannot trust experienced gun owners to carry loaded firearms in public, what does that say to the leaders in Olympia about us? When our legislators gather to debate the next round of pointless gun regulations like “gun-free safe zones” or “no loaded firearms at public gatherings”, all they need do is point to the Washington Arms Collectors show policy. I don’t disagree with their policy just because it disarms me, but because of what the policy says about firearms and firearms owners.

You can defend WAC the organization all you like, but that’s not what was being discussed. WAC will never get my membership, support, or one single penny of my money as long as they continue to have a policy that is detrimental to my firearms rights. A safe gun show is possible without a draconian gun ban.



EDIT to add:

OK, look at these two statements. Do you see the problem?

WAC is prepared for your loaded gun, they have a station to unload it safely.

Oh, and BTW, the one accidental I can remember, they were clearing a loaded 45 in the gun show in Everett.

Click to expand...

A firearm tucked in a properly fitting holster will not discharge. It’s only when you start fooling with it that you increase your chances of having a negligent discharge.

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+1.

Their rules were so irritating, demoralizing & violating that I told them “NO” I had no gun or camera phone as I entered. Too many on this Forum would never allow this violation from an LEO while you were safety walking down the street; why would you allow the same violation here and allow it to spread. You are giving into the anti gunners and don’t even see it, giving up ground that you can never get back. The anti gunners must salute you every morning.

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For the life of me I cant figure out why WAC is not on the Do Not Patronize list. If any other business pulled this shit it would be a done deal.

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Trigger Dr wrote:

As far as camera cell phones, In the past the anti's have sent in underage people who appearto be of legal age to own hand guns. They make a purchase and it is documented on film. It is now normal practice to not only check the WAC id, but a picture ID as well.

Your membership is conditioned upon a WSP background check, the same as for a CPL. Don't pass the background, no membership.

If you do not want to attend the WAC, then by all means stay away.

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The above "As far as camera cell phones" make no sense. If WAC. Or nay gun show had done the proper checks; their job, how the hell would an underage kid buy a gun at their show? The anti gunner didn't buy the Gun, WAC, or the gun show sold it to them!!! The camera is not the issue; the seller is the issue and should take full responsibility for improper checks and illegal sales.

I may go to other shows, but I will continue to tell them NO upon entry.

No guns or cell phones allowed, tour guides in Philadelphia (on the news yesterday) risk fines under city ordinance for speaking about US history if they have not taken and passed the cities tour guide certification test, which amendment was that folks? Lots of Mayor Nickels out there and WAC type organizations posting anti friendly guns rules on responsibility gun totters may be helping them to win.

What can we be violated with next? And I’m not taking about a prison shower!

Edit to:" If WAC, or any other gun show"

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CC27 wrote:

For the life of me I cant figure out why WAC is not on the Do Not Patronize list. If any other business pulled this @#$% it would be a done deal.

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Isn’t that the truth!

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jbone wrote:

Their rules were so irritating, demoralizing & violating that I told them “NO” I had no gun or camera phone as I entered. Too many on this Forum would never allow this violation from an LEO while you were safety walking down the street; why would you allow the same violation here and allow it to spread. You are giving into the anti gunners and don’t even see it, giving up ground that you can never get back. The anti gunners must salute you every morning.

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CC27 wrote:

For the life of me I cant figure out why WAC is not on the Do Not Patronize list. If any other business pulled this @#$% it would be a done deal.

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44Brent wrote:

WAC's directors are guilty of pure hypocrisy on this issue. I'm not a member of WAC and will never join as long as they have a policy to create a disarmed victims zone. Their policy actually creates unnecessary risk by all of the unholstering, reholstering, unloading, and reloading when entering and exiting.

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You know, very good points by all. I'm going to have to rethink my support on WAC on this issue. This is too important of an issue to just grab the easiest form of safety. This should have been thought thru and come to a solution that would have preserved the appearance of good, safe citizens going about their business, and also provide safety. If they have an unload station at the front entrance, then they could have one just outside the building to allow unloading should you find a holster to try or something worth trading for. At some point the gun may have to be unloaded, but for 99% of time I have been there, indeed there was no reason for me to unload. And we certainly do not want every store we go into adopting such a rediculous policy. I supported it based on the thought that a gun show is gun toyland, like no other place other than the NRA Convention show, and no doubt a few other big trade shows. Goes back to the if you trade liberty for safety, you deserve neither.

Thanks guys for reminding me what is really important.