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Thread: being stopped for OC

  1. #1
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    Do I have the rite to refuse to give the officers my I.D. and CPL, I heard that from people in other states that all you need to give the officer is your I.D. number, birthdate and SSN# Can anybody help me on this topic?

  2. #2
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    Are you legally allowed to refuse to give them a CPL? Of course. You are not concealing so there is no need to show them. As far as your ID? It all depends on how comfortable you feel about it. Like it or not, someone openly carrying a firearm is not something a lot of people are usedto seeing.

    If for some reason you are asked by a cop and are detain, politely point out that open carry is legal in Washington state andthat you are not doing anything illegal and ask if you are being detained. If they say no, then tell them you are leaving and tohave a good day. If they say yes, I personally would comply with all requests andthen file a complaint with the department.

    Remember, openly carryinga firearm may be a new and exciting for you. It will take you a bit to feel completely comfortable in public andnot fearing of a visit from Johnny Law. No pun intended, Johnny Law.

    Welcome to the forums, and remember you represent us as a whole as well.

  3. #3
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    Welcome!

    I am of the make it easy school of thought as you are very unlikely to win an argument with a beat cop. They step on your rights tell them as much politely, and then take it up with their superiors, where you CAN win the fight (I've done it)

    I see no reason to give up your SSN, and I can't recall a cop asking me. I never carry my card, and it's easy enough not to "remember" it if you are unwilling to share it.

    A CPL or ID, I'll hand over, as they will get it if they really want to anyway. Again the way I play it is to end the situation as quickly as possible. YMMV. You'll also get a dozen different responses to this.

    Like I say I don't think you can win a fight with a beat cop most times. If they want you, they will find a way. But you can take up the fight with their bosses, and effect policy throughout the system.

  4. #4
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    sv_libertarian wrote:
    SNIP I am of the make it easy school of thought as you are very unlikely to win an argument with a beat cop. They step on your rights tell them as much politely, and then take it up with their superiors, where you CAN win the fight (I've done it)
    Are you guys required to provide ID?

    Don't forget the Citizen's approach. As you dig in your wallet for ID, CPL, etc.tell them,

    "I'll provide it, officer. I do not consent to doing so, but since you are demanding it, I won't resist."

    Then, if he has no authority to demand ID, you've got another point you canhammer inthe complaint.

    No sense being totally on the receiving end of an illegal detention. Might as well develop all the ammunition you can. They're investigating you, and will be all too happy for you to say something they can take as incriminating. Fair is fair. Go right ahead and get them to trip up for you.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  5. #5
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    erich_kopp wrote:
    Do I have the rite to refuse to give the officers my I.D. and CPL, I heard that from people in other states that all you need to give the officer is your I.D. number, birthdate and SSN# Can anybody help me on this topic?
    What I.D.number? I am unaware of any I.D. number necessary in Washington. No, there is no law requiring you to provide it, but be aware that if you make it appear you are trying to hide who you are, the cop is likly to be on your case and detain you until he learns who you are. So, I'm with sv and just show them your I.D., makes life easier. As to your CPL, that also is your choice.

  6. #6
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    G27 wrote:
    If for some reason you are asked by a cop and are detain, politely point out that open carry is legal in Washington state andthat you are not doing anything illegal and ask if you are being detained. If they say no, then tell them you are leaving and tohave a good day. If they say yes, I personally would comply with all requests andthen file a complaint with the department.
    A little more accurately, after you ask "Am I being detained?" if they say "No" don't just state you are leaving and turn around, next you should ask "Than am I free to go?"

    I have seen videos of people asking police if they were being detained, they are told no, but than when they ask if they are free to go, they will than be told no. If you try to leave without them saying you are allowed to than they could try and hold that against you.

    On the other hand, if you get them to say you are not being detained, and than they say you are not free to go, well than you can hold that against them and that makes for a much better complaint.

  7. #7
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    I would not ask "Then am I free to go?"

    I would instead state "Then I am free to leave!"

  8. #8
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    "Then I am free to leave!"

    "Then I am free to leave?"

    The two of those probably sound very similar to a LEO

    There are some videos that are on the subject of border patrol stops set up about 50 miles North of the US/Mexican border. The video maker records the stops every time he pulls up to one. He will ask if he is being detained, and they always say no, than he asks if he is free to leave and they almost always respond no.

    Than they go into a loop about how he is not being detained but not free to leave. Usually they than just wave him through, or he would just say "okay, you let me know when I am free to go officer ____". Than he wouldn't say anything else.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Washintonian_For_Liberty's Avatar
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    Hi guys, well here is what I am doing. I'm going to the local police station in the town where I plan to OC the most and giving them all the necessary information about OC, which I downloaded from this site. I'm going to make sure they know that I'll be doing this every day and ask them to make sure they vet the calls before they harass me.

    People are ignorant about the law and shouldn't be expected to know all the laws or statutes. We can help our cause by helping to educate the local police where you live on OC. Once they know, we can post that info here.

    By the way, I live on Mercer Island and will be letting them know my intentions very soon (within six weeks).

    Cheers,

    WFL
    Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. ~ George Washington

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