Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 74

Thread: Taunting

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    431

    Post imported post

    Does anyone have tips/stories about diffusing a taunting situation?? What did/would you say in this type of situation?

    As in the "So you think you're a tough guy carrying a gun huh?" situation.

  2. #2
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lehi, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,716

    Post imported post

    Say no and leave.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    431

    Post imported post

    very insightful..... and when they follow/taunt more?

  4. #4
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lehi, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,716

    Post imported post

    Evade.

  5. #5
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766

    Post imported post

    xRapidDavex wrote:
    very insightful..... and when they follow/taunt more?
    A taunt is a little different than a negative comment. If they shut up when you politely declare its your right, great.

    The purpose of OC, however, is not to create a contest to see who has the wittiest comeback. Don't be drawn into unseemly arguments. You're not going to change an objector's mind in the brief time you might talk to someone in public.

    We long ago established that under verbal attack, the best thing to do is disengage and leave.

    Ifyou leave and they follow andharass you,call the police. You want to be the first to call, rather than they call and falsely report something. In a dark humor, I might tell the dispatcher the person is mentally unbalanced. When the dispatcher asks why I say that, I'd ask, "Would you go around taunting an armed man?"

    Just know that anyone who taunts an armed man is a complete idiot.


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    431

    Post imported post

    I was mainly thinking a gang member would do such a thing. They seem like the type of people to not disengage, which is almost what happened to outsider at conoco.

  7. #7
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lehi, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,716

    Post imported post

    which he handled quite well.

    you try to leave, you evade if followed and call the police, but don't go home, then they will know where you live. Get to a well lit preferably crowded area. If he continues, you may have a problem.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    431

    Post imported post

    Thanks for you input. I don't want this thread to die, so does anyone have an action plan different than what's been described?

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766

    Post imported post

    Action plan updated to include theidea that tauntingmay be a test to see if I can be disarmed. Meaning, rather than a taunt, it might be a pre-assault interview with the gun being the object rather than the wallet.

    Thus retreat adds to my legal defensibility if it gets violent. And necessarily includes the idea of retreating only if safe to do so. Meaning don't turn your back.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Firestone, Colorado
    Posts
    1,189

    Post imported post

    xRapidDavex wrote:
    Thanks for you input. I don't want this thread to die, so does anyone have an action plan different than what's been described?
    Not likely. It's the best possible plan.

    What other options are there? Well, if you are good at snappy comebacks, you could try that, but you'd have to be extremely careful that your comeback cannot be interpreted as a threat.

    When you're carrying a deadly weapon you have much more power. That power allows you to defend yourself more effectively in a dangerous confrontation, but it also gives any threats you make much more power as well, and that means that you have to act with great reservation. Threatening someone with a deadly weapon can potentially be prosecuted as felony assault in Utah. Not only that, suppose your comeback is interpreted as a threat, and then the situation escalates to violence and you end up shooting. Under Utah law, it can be argued that you started the conflict, and the shooting will therefore be unjustifiable, even if the other guy pulled a knife or a gun.

    You don't have a legal duty to retreat from a deadly threat, but because you're carrying deadly force, you do have a legal duty to avoid starting a fight. I think it would be very difficult to respond effectively to a taunt without saying something that could be interpreted as starting a fight.

    Your very best option is to say as little as possible without being rude, and to disengage from the encounter. Anything else is risky.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    431

    Post imported post

    The real question comes to when should you draw. When you draw, do you first aim at the ground? Will this be interpreted differently than assault with a deadly weapon? Do you give warning with your hand on the gun before drawing? What kind of verbal warnings do you use?

    These are the real things I mean when I say "action plan".

  12. #12
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lehi, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,716

    Post imported post

    Well, you didn't say that, you said if he was taunting you.

    I would not touch the gun, as that might constitute threatening deadly force, unless of course the man is a threat.

    I would set yourself in a position from which you can draw quickly, facing the man while trying to gain some distance, and tell the man that he needs to stop harassing you. See what happens from there.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    431

    Post imported post

    Sorry, I thought i made it clear here:
    Does anyone have tips/stories about diffusing a taunting situation?? What did/would you say in this type of situation? As in the "So you think you're a tough guy carrying a gun huh?" situation.

  14. #14
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lehi, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,716

    Post imported post

    Yes, in that the person was taunting you, more details needed is all I'm saying.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Firestone, Colorado
    Posts
    1,189

    Post imported post

    xRapidDavex wrote:
    The real question comes to when should you draw. When you draw, do you first aim at the ground? Will this be interpreted differently than assault with a deadly weapon? Do you give warning with your hand on the gun before drawing? What kind of verbal warnings do you use?

    These are the real things I mean when I say "action plan".
    If you draw your gun in response to a taunt, you have committed aggravated assault. Even putting your hand on your gun is assault, if the prosecutor can argue successfully that you intended it as a threat.

    The simple rule is: Don't draw or threaten to draw unless you're going to shoot.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    431

    Post imported post

    Well at what point do you threaten to draw? What if they say they're going to kill you?

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    431

    Post imported post

    thx997303 wrote:
    Yes, in that the person was taunting you, more details needed is all I'm saying.
    Sorry.

  18. #18
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lehi, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,716

    Post imported post

    That's fine buddy, no harm no foul.

    If he just says that he is going to kill you, don't draw, until he actually becomes a viable threat, such as he has a weapon.

    You don't ever threaten to draw, you draw.

    If you are justified in the threat, then you are justified in using the threatened force.

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    431

    Post imported post

    thx997303 wrote:
    That's fine buddy, no harm no foul.

    If he just says that he is going to kill you, don't draw, until he actually becomes a viable threat, such as he has a weapon.

    You don't ever threaten to draw, you draw.

    If you are justified in the threat, then you are justified in using the threatened force.
    Totally makes sense.

    In my original thinking, I would place my hand on the grip of the gun, hold a hand out, and tell him to not come any closer.

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Firestone, Colorado
    Posts
    1,189

    Post imported post

    xRapidDavex wrote:
    In my original thinking, I would place my hand on the grip of the gun, hold a hand out, and tell him to not come any closer.
    That's actually not unreasonable, but you just need to be able to argue that you put your hand on the grip in order to prepare in case you needed to draw, rather than with any intent to threaten or intimidate. If he's threatened to kill you, I think it's reasonable to prepare to draw.

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    431

    Post imported post

    What would the appropriate response be when a person attempts to take your gun from your holster? If you have a knife, does it seem justified to do this ? Let's say in a surprise grab for your gun when you were in condition yellow.

    Basically, I need to know where to read about the situations where deadly force is justified.... basically I need Mitch's book NOW. Where is it?

  22. #22
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lehi, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,716

    Post imported post

    Van wagenen's in orem usually has it.

  23. #23
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    No longer in Alexandria, Egypt
    Posts
    2,798

    Post imported post

    When taunted you can always tell them their mother was a hamster and their father smelled of elderberries!

    http://soundboard.com/sb/Holy_Grail_Taunting_Frenc.aspx

    Or you can always... (sproing).....RUN AWAY!!! RUN AWAY!!!

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    431

    Post imported post

    thx997303 wrote:
    Van wagenen's in orem usually has it.
    Really? Someone said on here it wasn't out yet. Can you check if you're by there?

  25. #25
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lehi, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,716

    Post imported post

    I unfortunately am not in the area, Wait! which book are you talking about?

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •