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Thread: Joe Horn Cleared for Shooting

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    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=5278588&page=1



    A suburban Houston homeowner was cleared by a grand jury Monday for shooting to death two men he suspected of burglarizing his neighbor's home.

    Joe Horn, 61, shot the two men last November after he saw them crawling out the windows of a neighbor's house in Pasadena, a Houston suburb.

    Horn, a retired grandfather, called 911 and told the dispatcher he had a shotgun and was going to kill them. The dispatcher pleaded with him not to go outside, but Horn confronted the men with a 12-gauge shotgun and shot both in the back.

    "The message we're trying to send today is the criminal justice system works," Harris County District Attorney Kenneth Magidson told reporters at the courthouse.

    Horn's attorney, Tom Lambright, has said his client believed the two men had broken into his neighbor's home and that he shot them only when they came into his yard and threatened him.

    The two suspected burglars, Hernando Riascos Torres, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, were unemployed illegal immigrants from Colombia. Torres was deported to Colombia in 1999 after a 1994 cocaine-related conviction.

    The incident touched off protests from civil rights activists who said the shooting was racially motivated and that Horn took the law into his own hands. Horn's supporters defended his actions, saying he was protecting himself and being a good neighbor to a homeowner who was out of town.


    "I understand the concerns of some in the community regarding Mr. Horn's conduct," Magidson said. "The use of deadly force is carefully limited in Texas law to certain circumstances ... In this case, however, the grand jury concluded that Mr. Horn use of deadly force did not rise to a criminal offense."

    Magidson said nine of the 12 grand jurors would have had to vote in favor of an indictment in order for Horn to be charged.

    Lambright said this week that his client regrets the shooting and would stay inside if he had it to do over again.

    Lambright did not immediately return a phone call seeking comment from The Associated Press.

    In the 911 call, a dispatcher urges Horn to stay inside his house and not risk lives.

    "Don't go outside the house," the 911 operator pleaded. "You're gonna get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think."

    "You wanna make a bet?" Horn answered. "I'm gonna kill 'em."

    After the shooting, he redialed 911.

    "I had no choice," he said, his voice shaking. "They came in the front yard with me, man. I had no choice. Get somebody over here quick."



    Texas law allows people to use deadly force to protect themselves if it is reasonable to believe they are in mortal danger. In limited circumstances, people also can use deadly force to protect their neighbor's property; for example, if a homeowner asks a neighbor to watch over his property while he's out of town.

    It's not clear whether the neighbor whose home was burglarized asked Horn to watch over his house.

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    :celebrate Good for Him !

    Burglary, It's a Risky Business !

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    Way to go Joe!

    Where's HankT now? lol.....

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    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    So....all that needs to happen is getting OC legal in TX, then I know where I'm moving to!

    You guys think I'm kidding, don't you..........:celebrate

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    Thank you Mr. Horn for saving somone else from being victimized by these criminals.


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    The two suspected burglars, Hernando Riascos Torres, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, were unemployed illegal immigrants from Colombia. Torres was deported to Colombia in 1999 after a 1994 cocaine-related conviction.
    I would caution anyone from considering this a total victory for the GG's. If these had been two WASP teenagers I suspect that the outcome may have been different. The old defense of "He needed killing" does work sometimes and may have been a part of this case and we probably will never know. I do know that I don't want to take that chance.



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    Regular Member MetalChris's Avatar
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    Nice. Had he been charged, I would've been very surprised.

    I like the spin on the article, the lamestream media at it's best.

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    Good shooting and a good ending.







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    PT111 wrote:
    The two suspected burglars, Hernando Riascos Torres, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, were unemployed illegal immigrants from Colombia. Torres was deported to Colombia in 1999 after a 1994 cocaine-related conviction.
    I would caution anyone from considering this a total victory for the GG's. If these had been two WASP teenagers I suspect that the outcome may have been different. The old defense of "He needed killing" does work sometimes and may have been a part of this case and we probably will never know. I do know that I don't want to take that chance.



    Yea well they weren't teenagers, and we weren't there.

    You think this man would have shot some kids in the back too ? If so than your no different than the protesters that were there saying the same thing.

    I'll stick to Joe Horns reputation and account of the situation.

    Go Joe !!

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    Regular Member Snoopy's Avatar
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    I heard somewhere early on in the investigation the question raised as to why he was not arrested and charges pressed immediately was because a plain clothes LEO was sitting in his car across the street watching the whole incident go down...never heard that reported... and speaking of reports, that article still gives me the impression he is guilty..not that I think so, just the impression I get from the author.

    Congratulations Mr Horn.. our prayers for you were answered.

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    Merge with http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum4/12849.html ?

    So I don't have to get flamed twice

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    Yes a LEO was in a car out front, he stated he was not getting out of the car
    and be mistaken for a third thug.

    The 911 operator said they were dangerous people, so the shooting
    is justified on that ground alone. Also the sole reason for going outside
    was to not let them get away. Why didn't the operator just tell him
    a plain close was outside and would nab them, insted of this "so what
    it isn't your property" garbage.
    Also the "gentemen" could have laid down and surrendered, or gone back inside
    and called the police on the armed man threatening them when they were
    only robbing the house.
    Also lucky they weren't from just over border, or feds woul file charges of civil rights
    just to placate the Mexican gov.



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    Joe Horn is a Hero in my Book!

    GO JOE!







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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    I have thought from the beginning, based on my understanding of TX law, that what Joe Horn did was legal. I argued in an earlier thread that what he did was moral. That does not make him a hero though. I would not have done what he did and I don't think it was a wise decision. I think he is more in the category of lucky than good for the entire situation.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Joe Horn will live with his memories of that night forever. He knows what was in his heart and mind that night. IMO, I don't think he woke up that day thinking about killing. He went to sleep, maybe, that night KNOWING he had killed two sentinent beings, I can't say people, doing something he thought was the right thing to do. Did the neighbor ask him to watch their property, I don't know,I bet yes. We do that in my neighborhood. Did he say he was going to killthem to the 911 operator, yes, I heard the tape. Dumb to say; You Betcha, could have hung his a$$ out to dry.Was he in any way threatened? We don't know. Did he FEEL threatened? Only he knows. Was a Plain Clothes LEO there, apparently YES. What did HE SEE? Could he/Would he have been able to intervene and prevent the shooting? Hard to say there, but is not his sworn duty to uphold the law? How fast is Motorola? I mean radios for those of you in Rio Linda, (sorry Rush, too good to pass up on). How far out in the rural area was this? Many questions, so few answers, except one, He Was Not Charged. Within the laws of Texas? Sounds like it to me. Two criminal careers ended. How many potentential crimes prevented? Would I like a neighbor like Joe Horn? YES. I would know him likeI know my current neighbors. We trust one another. We are alsoarmed (some of us, you guess which ones), we talk to each other, how many of YOUR neighbors do you talk to? Anyway, enough bloviating, just ask these questions to yourself:

    What would I do?

    Am I ready for the consequences?

    Would anyone do the same for me?

    I carry a firearm not because I am afraid, but because it enables me to be Unafraid. I cannot be forced, only persuaded. If you should try to force me into something I would not do on my own, you will be stopped, because you are attempting to impose your will upon me. You are violating my Rights. Do not try to Impose yourself upon me, I Do Not try to impose myself on others. If you attempt to impose your will upon me, you will be persuaded otherwise. This is how it is. Your Rights end at the tip of your nose, mine begin at the end of mine. No more, No less. I choose to carry. Some don't. Personal Choices. Do not try to impose your Choice on My Rights. I will not try to impose my Rights on your Choice.

    Any Questions?

    BTW, the reason I post green Comic Sans, is because I do not like black basic typewritten words, too conformist for me. I listen to Garrison Keilor,I watch Bill O'Reilly,I watch King of the Hill and The Simpsons, I read history and anything political. I am intelligent. I think for myself. I also get as much information as possible to base a decision on, not just jump to conclusions. All this being said, I consider myself to be well educated, well rounded, right, no square corners here, but most all, able to understand a lot and reason out what must be done. Can Joe Horn say these things, I think so. Did he do what was right, I think he did. Like the saying goes; "Never Shoot to Kill, Always Shoot to Survive". Did he survive, yes. Did he mean to Kill? Only Joe Horn knows that, and maybe some plain clothes LEO.

    That's All, Carry on, and if so inclined, Flame Away

    Curtm1911







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    I respect Mr. Horn for what he did, the molotov cocktail threat justifies his actions. Let's face it, somebody slinking around on your property; they are probably not up to good things.

    I wouldn't convict the man, he may have saved multiple lives in the long run; remember how the Manson .'Family'. was released multiple times, even after Tate-Bianca? Ending the theft culture will also reduce the murder rates.













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    curtm1911 wrote:
    =He went to sleep, maybe, that night KNOWING he had killed two sentinent beings, I can't say people, doing something he thought was the right thing to do.
    What's with things these days where people suddenly are dehumanized because they committed a crime? 2nd time I've seen this in a week on these forums.Making bad choicesand committing a crime doesn't make a person not a person. By dehumanizing people it's so much easier to justify mistreating them, or overprosecuting them, or taking away their rights (obviously no longer an issue in this case), because they're not people, so those things don't apply anymore...right? They're still people, period.

    Yes, I have a question. How did the humans become unhuman?

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    NightOwl wrote:

    Yes, I have a question. How did the humans become unhuman?
    That's what kids are being taught these days in school. Your not a special being, your just another animal in the evolutionary branch of life ....

    tick...tock...tick...tock...



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    Regular Member demnogis's Avatar
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    NightOwl,
    It is not an argument that these people had become "unhuman", it is an argument of these people decided to act inhumanely and commit a life-threatening offense against this man. Life is sacred and important - but when an individual (or two, in this instance) makes the willing decision to attempt to deprive another person of their life (liberty, property, etc). In that course of action it is shown they do not consider this man's life important enough to leave him be. It is justified for his own self preservation to eliminate those threats.

    I understand the argument you are trying to make by saying they are still people, and should have their rights respected. That is why we have a rehabilitation and incarceration process. We also have constitutional rights that restrict against excessive punishment. But when the crime is an attempt on someone's life, they have to be prepared for the proper punishment, which this person exacted in protecting his own life.

    As they say: "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime."

    NightOwl wrote:
    Yes, I have a question. How did the humans become unhuman
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

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    NightOwl wrote:
    curtm1911 wrote:
    =He went to sleep, maybe, that night KNOWING he had killed two sentinent beings, I can't say people, doing something he thought was the right thing to do.
    What's with things these days where people suddenly are dehumanized because they committed a crime? 2nd time I've seen this in a week on these forums.Making bad choicesand committing a crime doesn't make a person not a person. By dehumanizing people it's so much easier to justify mistreating them, or overprosecuting them, or taking away their rights (obviously no longer an issue in this case), because they're not people, so those things don't apply anymore...right? They're still people, period.

    Yes, I have a question. How did the humans become unhuman?
    I don't read anything dehumanizing in these words. Are not humans sentient beings? Do we not feel? Are we not aware? I believe he's conveying the EXACT point yhou are making and that is, Joe Horn had to go to sleep that night knwoing that he had killed two knowing feeling, aware human beings.

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    Two knowing, aware beings that he couldn't refer to as people. People are people, regardless of race, action, disability, clothing choice, or anything else. They're still people, period.

    Dustin, how is it that some people are people, and some aren't, then?

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    Dahwg wrote:
    NightOwl wrote:
    curtm1911 wrote:
    =He went to sleep, maybe, that night KNOWING he had killed two sentinent beings, I can't say people, doing something he thought was the right thing to do.
    What's with things these days where people suddenly are dehumanized because they committed a crime? 2nd time I've seen this in a week on these forums.Making bad choicesand committing a crime doesn't make a person not a person. By dehumanizing people it's so much easier to justify mistreating them, or overprosecuting them, or taking away their rights (obviously no longer an issue in this case), because they're not people, so those things don't apply anymore...right? They're still people, period.

    Yes, I have a question. How did the humans become unhuman?
    I don't read anything dehumanizing in these words. Are not humans sentient beings? Do we not feel? Are we not aware? I believe he's conveying the EXACT point yhou are making and that is, Joe Horn had to go to sleep that night knwoing that he had killed two knowing feeling, aware human beings.
    Maybe the "I can't say people" was the key that brought about ths question. I don't think that curtm's post was saying that they were not human but there has been plenty of comments that they were less than human. I don't think that whether or not they were US citizen's should come into play as some suggested. Also I do not condem Mr. Horn for what he did. I was not there and I am not an expert on TX law. My opinion is that it could have been handled better especially by the ones that were killed. I do not think those who were killed were less than human, I do not revel in their death and I do not hold Mr. Horn up as a hero. They made a bad decision, they paid the ultimate price and Mr. Horn also paid a terrible price for their stupidity. None of thiswould have happened if not for those two thugs.

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    When I said "I can't say people", my reference was to all of us people, note the comma, as in I can't say people, maybe my punctuation was incorrect, but I was NOT lessening the fact that the perps were human beings. I'm sorry if my poor punctuation was a cause for missunderstanding my point, which was commented on by someone. I PRAY I NEVER have to use my Defensive Firearm in such a manner. I Do Not Ever want to have to take a life. Will I..........if mine is or my family or an innocent third party is threatened, I Will Shoot To Stop The Threat, if death occurs, I will have to live with that on my mind forever. From all accounts of the Joe Horn Incident, nobody forced these two to do what they did. They made a concious choice. So did Joe Horn. Just Pray that maybe YOU (any of you) are never in that situation and have just seconds to decide.................

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    NightOwl wrote:
    curtm1911 wrote:
    =He went to sleep, maybe, that night KNOWING he had killed two sentinent beings, I can't say people, doing something he thought was the right thing to do.
    What's with things these days where people suddenly are dehumanized because they committed a crime? 2nd time I've seen this in a week on these forums.
    You must be working really hard at that. This thread is 9 months old. I guess you have a lot of time on your hands.

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