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Thread: New Hampshire Murder Gives Advice to Open Carriers!

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    Just found this interesting tid-bit from a convicted murderer, still serving, and without any facts or data. His "professional" criminal opinion. Hell, if he was THAT professional a criminal, he wouldn't be in prison!

    At first glance, a laymanwould assume he'slearned his lesson and is trying to pass along "lifesaving tips" to citizens. But as we all know, OC grabs and targeting by criminals just doesn't happen, so his dual purpose for this insight is likely bothtrying to make himself look reformed for the parole board and in the meantime discouraginv OCmaking the streets safer for his brother crimnals!

    http://www.cmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dl...1029/OPINION03




    Displaying a gun only makes you vulnerable
    Why openly invite a thug to take you on?


    I usually don't need a reminder of the disparity in conceptual approaches to crime between citizens and thugs, but a recent letter to the editor from Michael Hampton of Manchester, in which he advocated an "open-carry" policy regarding handguns, caught my attention.

    Mr. Hampton supports armed citizens displaying their weapons as they go about their quotidian business, rather than keeping them concealed under clothing or in a purse. He clearly believes that such a demonstration will act as a deterrent to criminal activity by putting bad guys on notice that they will not be allowed to kill police officers or anyone else without paying an extreme price. Although such an approach is well-intentioned, it won't work for several reasons.

    Mr. Hampton can be forgiven for assuming that urban predators think like citizens. When it comes to the theory of deterrence, most working men and women and the elected officials who represent them make the same mistake, whether criminalizing specific behaviors or increasing the penalties for others. Whereas one of them would avoid confronting someone carrying a loaded weapon, serious criminals intent on taking what you have would simply employ countermeasures to neutralize the threat of the displayed weapon, including pulling theirs first and possibly taking yours. In fact, most of the bad guys I have met over the years would probably thank you for giving them advance warning that you are armed.

    I'll probably provoke some people by divulging "trade secrets," but citizens who carry weapons openly actually invite the more resolute thugs to take them on. Often those same citizens enjoy a specious sense of superiority because of the gun, forgetting that they didn't get the last one and that shooting paper targets at the range does not even come close to armed combat with someone who intends to kill you.

    Moreover, criminals in the market for a weapon opportunistically shop for guns and will even follow someone displaying a weapon home and then burglarize the empty house to get it. That's why cars and trucks with Ruger or Colt or Glock decals on the windows actually dare thieves to break in and see what's there. The bolder - or more foolish - will actually assault the individual carrying the gun, perhaps with a club or other weapon.

    Granted, the open display of a weapon will convince some of the low-level muggers, purse snatchers, and perverts to ply their trade elsewhere, but the results can be even more dramatic if the weapon is not visible. The wife of a friend of mine once took a load of clothes to the Laundromat, and on her way across the parking lot at dusk, she was confronted by a man standing between two cars. When he had her attention, he unzipped his pants and exposed himself. Faye calmly put down the basket of laundry, flipped back a towel on top, pulled a nine-millimeter Beretta, and aimed it at the man's anatomy where he was most vulnerable at the time. Last seen, he was running across the parking lot like a semi-dressed Olympian, and one can presume that this salutary lesson prevented other women from dealing with the same situation.

    The fact remains that, other than uniformed personnel, only amateurs display their weapons and give potential adversaries intelligence on their self-defense capabilities. And as for deterring lethal attacks, the recent deaths of two New Hampshire police officers are graphic testimony refuting the proposition that guns in the open will stop a determined killer. Both officers were carrying their sidearms in the standard position, and both had extensive training in their use. And their killers didn't care; they were willing to engage clearly armed men in mortal combat. What deterrent effect, then, would a citizen's weapon have on that same mindset?

    Then, too, if gun owners begin to exert their rights to carry weapons openly, the result could be every cop's nightmare. A stroll in downtown Concord would begin to look more like Tombstone, Ariz., in 1881, when the Earp brothers and Doc Holliday took that walk to the OK Corral, only I doubt most citizens are as proficient as the Earps and Holliday, never mind the target shooting they might have done on the weekend.

    The Second Amendment confers, in my judgment, the right of citizens to "keep and bear arms." Last week, in a case concerning the Washington, D.C., handgun ban, the U.S. Supreme Court affirmed that right. Given that explicit right, state and municipal jurisdictions are charged with establishing criteria by which residents can buy and carry weapons, including prohibiting men like me with felony records from owning a gun. But an open-carry policy is not a judicious response to the nebulous, undifferentiated threat described by Mr. Hampton.

    A wiser option would be to obtain the necessary permit and carry your weapon concealed. You would avoid alerting the bad guys and forfeiting the element of surprise should you find yourself in a threatening situation. If someone demands your money or your life, the intelligent response is not to let him see your weapon. Instead, you want him to hear it when he doesn't expect it. The best way to accomplish that is not to show it to him first.

    (Charles Huckelbury is serving a murder sentence at the state prison in Concord.)

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    His poor examples and lack of critical thinking in those choices are likely indicative of the less than rational thinking that earned him time in the gray bar hotel.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    "The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense." Who do you imagine sits on the parole board, Sugarman and Helmke or LACs?

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    I like that there were only two examples of the use of guns here.

    In the first, there was possibly an unlawful use of a firearm. Drawing down on someone for indecent exposure? Good job! If I go to an OC-friendly state on Spring Break, I'm sure that I could draw from an OWB holster and put in my sights a female who's flashing me. Now, if that man had come running at her, perhaps with a bladed instrument, would she have had time to put down her laundry basket and sift through her towels to get out her nifty concealed handgun in time? I doubt it.

    In the second, there is a deliberate ignorance of the fact that those murdered were LEOs in uniform. Different from a peaceable citizen.

    Regardless, he lost me at the "Wild West" comparison. C'mon, get some new material.

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    It should be yelled from the rooftops everywhere that the anti-OC/anti-gun mouthpiece is a convicted murderer. :what:

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    My responses are bolded.
    Moreover, criminals in the market for a weapon opportunistically shop for guns and will even follow someone displaying a weapon home and then burglarize the empty house to get it. That's why cars and trucks with Ruger or Colt or Glock decals on the windows actually dare thieves to break in and see what's there.
    Wise lesson... make sure you aren't being followed. Be observant. When I think I might be followed, I lose them first. People lose patience after you drive around a in a big circle.
    The bolder - or more foolish - will actually assault the individual carrying the gun, perhaps with a club or other weapon.
    Hmm... attacking an armed man with a club. All I can say is that you better get them by surprise and strike them unconscious with your first hit. Otherwise you are liable to lose your life. Further, he is speculating. Since he says "more foolish" and probably doesn't consider himself to be foolish, that means he himself probably wouldn't do that. Speculating on the actions of others, not speaking from personal experience.
    Granted, the open display of a weapon will convince some of the low-level muggers, purse snatchers, and perverts to ply their trade elsewhere, but the results can be even more dramatic if the weapon is not visible.
    He admits deterrant of most criminals. Chances are if you find a criminal they will be a "low-level" crook. The chances of finding someone intent on killing you at any cost to themselves is unlikely. Yes, presenting a concealed weapon will be more dramatic, but drama isn't what most people want.
    The wife of a friend of mine once took a load of clothes to the Laundromat, and on her way across the parking lot at dusk, she was confronted by a man standing between two cars. When he had her attention, he unzipped his pants and exposed himself. Faye calmly put down the basket of laundry, flipped back a towel on top, pulled a nine-millimeter Beretta, and aimed it at the man's anatomy where he was most vulnerable at the time. Last seen, he was running across the parking lot like a semi-dressed Olympian, and one can presume that this salutary lesson prevented other women from dealing with the same situation.
    Rape prevention is agoodreason why the public should be armed.

    The fact remains that, other than uniformed personnel, only amateurs display their weapons and give potential adversaries intelligence on their self-defense capabilities. And as for deterring lethal attacks, the recent deaths of two New Hampshire police officers are graphic testimony refuting the proposition that guns in the open will stop a determined killer. Both officers were carrying their sidearms in the standard position, and both had extensive training in their use. And their killers didn't care; they were willing to engage clearly armed men in mortal combat. What deterrent effect, then, would a citizen's weapon have on that same mindset?
    If the police officers were unarmed they would have faired no better. To some hardened and particularly stupid criminals, a gun may not be a deterrant, but if they manage to not kill you before you draw on them, the gun still increases your chance of survival.
    A wiser option would be to obtain the necessary permit and carry your weapon concealed. You would avoid alerting the bad guys and forfeiting the element of surprise should you find yourself in a threatening situation. If someone demands your money or your life, the intelligent response is not to let him see your weapon. Instead, you want him to hear it when he doesn't expect it. The best way to accomplish that is not to show it to him first.
    CCW is good too. Bottom line, gunsin the handsofvictimsare bad news for criminals whether concealed or carried openly.

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    deepdiver wrote:
    His poor examples and lack of critical thinking in those choices are likely indicative of the less than rational thinking that earned him time in the gray bar hotel.
    Thuggies and druggies are NOT "critical thinkers." That's why they're thuggies and druggies.

    Criminals are inclined to be impulsive, reactionary, aggressive, and have little insight into the consequences of their actions. Its' the sort of behavior that gets them arrested, and/or shot.

    This guy makes some valid points. I don't put ANY product stickers on my vehicles that might prompt someone to break into it to see if the product is inside. I think open carry is fine in some appropriate contexts -- "in the field" but probably not at the opera.

    I doubt that open carry prompts assault -- I think that's a stretch. I think too that open carry probably deters some of the more goofy/impulsive types of petty harassment, like flashers and purse snatchers. I seriously doubt that most criminals view open carry as a "challange" toward assault.

    But I've been confronted by meth-addicts (tweakers) who knew I was armed and were bent on confronting me anyway. The comment of the arresting officer was, "They don't think they're going to get shot."





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    SCOTUS 07-290 wrote:
    I think open carry is fine in some appropriate contexts -- "in the field" but probably not at the opera.
    ...

    But I've been confronted by meth-addicts (tweakers) who knew I was armed and were bent on confronting me anyway. The comment of the arresting officer was, "They don't think they're going to get shot."
    1. Why isn't open carry fine at the opera?

    2. I thought you'd never been in a hairy situation except when you were in a war-zone. Isn't that what you said on another thread?

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    imperialism2024 wrote:
    I like that there were only two examples of the use of guns here.

    In the first, there was possibly an unlawful use of a firearm. Drawing down on someone for indecent exposure? Good job!
    There's a fundamental legal distinction between "indecent exposure" and being flashed.
    Being flashed is viewed in most legal arenas as "sexual assault" and as "threatening imminent harm concomitant with both means and intent."

    A FEMALE being flashed by a MALE in an isolated situation is constructive defense for drawing a firearm in most jurisdictions where possession of said firearm for self-defense is lawful.

    Boob flashes at Spring Break are a whole different social construct.

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    BobCav wrote:
    .....At first glance, a layman¬*would assume he's¬*learned his lesson and is trying to pass along "lifesaving tips" to citizens.¬* But as we all know, OC grabs and targeting by criminals just doesn't happen, so his dual purpose for this insight is likely both¬*trying to make himself look reformed for the parole board and in the meantime discouraginv OC¬*making the streets safer for his brother crimnals!.....
    That is exactly what I thought Bob.

    Good catch.


    Tarzan

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    Felid`Maximus wrote:
    SCOTUS 07-290 wrote:
    I think open carry is fine in some appropriate contexts -- "in the field" but probably not at the opera.
    ...

    But I've been confronted by meth-addicts (tweakers) who knew I was armed and were bent on confronting me anyway. The comment of the arresting officer was, "They don't think they're going to get shot."
    1. Why isn't open carry fine at the opera?

    2. I thought you'd never been in a hairy situation except when you were in a war-zone. Isn't that what you said on another thread?
    1. Because opera promoters typically invoke a specified standard of "social decorum" -- as alluded to in Heller. I carry concealed at the opera, and don't expect generally that I'll be in much danger -- although it happened to Lincoln.

    2. Never been in a FIRE FIGHT except in a war zone. Never FIRED A SHOT in self-defense except in a war zone. You can read back the transcript. I know what I said.

    You don't want to get into a rhetorical ******* match with me. Rhetorical ******* matches are one of my formal academic fields.

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    SCOTUS 07-290 wrote:
    Felid`Maximus wrote:
    SCOTUS 07-290 wrote:
    I think open carry is fine in some appropriate contexts -- "in the field" but probably not at the opera.
    ...

    But I've been confronted by meth-addicts (tweakers) who knew I was armed and were bent on confronting me anyway. The comment of the arresting officer was, "They don't think they're going to get shot."
    1. Why isn't open carry fine at the opera?

    2. I thought you'd never been in a hairy situation except when you were in a war-zone. Isn't that what you said on another thread?
    1. Because opera promoters typically invoke a specified standard of "social decorum" -- as alluded to in Heller. I carry concealed at the opera, and don't expect generally that I'll be in much danger -- although it happened to Lincoln.

    2. Never been in a FIRE FIGHT except in a war zone. Never FIRED A SHOT in self-defense except in a war zone. You can read back the transcript. I know what I said.

    You don't want to get into a rhetorical ******* match with me. Rhetorical ******* matches are one of my formal academic fields.
    1. I've got no problems with concealed carry. For me though concealed carry is illegal, soI'm going to open carry into the opera unless they ask me to leave. Also, I'd rather not leave my gun in my car where it is likely to get stolen.

    2. You're right, that is what you said. Sorry for misquoting you.

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    Using this logic, if I carry a fire extinguisher, arsonists will want to light me on fire. Ppl can be amazingly convoluted in their thinking sometimes.

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    hardtarget wrote:
    Using this logic, if I carry a fire extinguisher, arsonists will want to light me on fire....
    I'm running out to buy condoms as we speak...
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Pointman wrote:
    hardtarget wrote:
    Using this logic, if I carry a fire extinguisher, arsonists will want to light me on fire....
    I'm running out to buy condoms as we speak...
    ?

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    Pointman wrote:
    hardtarget wrote:
    Using this logic, if I carry a fire extinguisher, arsonists will want to light me on fire....
    I'm running out to buy condoms as we speak...
    Got it.

    I need to go buy some more, too...

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    "Then, too, if gun owners begin to exert their rights to carry weapons openly, the result could be every cop's nightmare. A stroll in downtown Concord would begin to look more like Tombstone, Ariz., in 1881, when the Earp brothers and Doc Holliday took that walk to the OK Corral"

    More like "every crook's nightmare."And/or "every lib's nightmare." To hell with both!
    "You can teach 'em, but you cant learn 'em."

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    "Then, too, if gun owners begin to exert their rights to carry weapons openly, the result could be every cop's nightmare."

    ----Unemployment



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    Pointman wrote:
    hardtarget wrote:
    Using this logic, if I carry a fire extinguisher, arsonists will want to light me on fire....
    I'm running out to buy condoms as we speak...
    This has got to be the "post of the week." I'm still smiling as I write this and the back of my head hurts from laughing... Excellent job Pointman !!

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    Pointman wrote:
    hardtarget wrote:
    Using this logic, if I carry a fire extinguisher, arsonists will want to light me on fire....
    I'm running out to buy condoms as we speak...
    OMG funniest thing all week!!!
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    call me an idiot, but I am missing the condom joke completely - lol

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    hardtarget wrote:
    call me an idiot, but I am missing the condom joke completely - lol
    If carrying a gun invites criminals to victimize you, and carrying a fire extinguisher invites arsonists to light you on fire, carrying condoms would...

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    ROFLMFAO! THAT is 2 funny! Know what is funny? I have been trying to figure out the condom relevance for 3 days. I totally missed the logic of my own joke. That is what happens if you smoke an ounce of killer dope every day until you are 26. Even though I got 29 years sober on 6/3/79, I still am an idiot.

    But I guess I could have asked "would what?"

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    But I've been confronted by meth-addicts (tweakers) who knew I was armed and were bent on confronting me anyway. The comment of the arresting officer was, "They don't think they're going to get shot."
    One of the problems that people have with discussing OC vs CC and carrying in the first place is we assume than BG's think rationally. Your comment on that is perfectly in line with what I have been told by LEO and studies that I have read. One study found that 85% or so of all criminals in jail said that when they committed the crime getting caught was the last thing on their mind. It didn't really matter what kind of time they were facing they just figured they wouldn't get caught. Meth-heads don't worry about getting caught, who they hurt or that they could be shot. Rational thinking is not part of their mental process so I think the fellow in the OP could be on to something. Just becasue he doesn't agree with our preconceived notions of what BG's will do doesn't mean that he is wrong, just we don't agree with him.

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    PT111, They don't think about long term consequences or getting caught. They don't look into the law or what the penalties are. They likely don't even know if their state has shall issue CC or how many people may be CCing. Which is why I think it's important to OC. I'm not a drug dealer or involved in any gang wars, the criminals likely to attack me are small time thugs trying to steal a dollar. Them seeing that I am armed right here right now will make them want to move on. Unless of course they really, really want my gun and think they can beat me to it.

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