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Thread: Quick shotgun question

  1. #1
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    I have a 2007 Mustang, and I was wondering if there is anything prohibiting me from rigging some sort of rack for my 870 on the underside of my trunk lid?

    Just like the police, so when you open your trunk, its smack dab in your face and accessible.

    Thanks!

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    Regular Member vbnative73's Avatar
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    KnightSG7 wrote:
    I have a 2007 Mustang, and I was wondering if there is anything prohibiting me from rigging some sort of rack for my 870 on the underside of my trunk lid?

    Just like the police, so when you open your trunk, its smack dab in your face and accessible.

    Thanks!
    I'd have to look it up to be sure, but I think the only regulation says that it can't be loaded while in the vehicle.

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    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...od+15.2-1209.1

    § 15.2-1209.1. Counties may regulate carrying of loaded firearms on public highways.

    The governing body of any county is hereby empowered to adopt ordinances making it unlawful for any person to carry or have in his possession, for the purpose of hunting, while on any part of a public highway within such county a loaded firearm when such person is not authorized to hunt on the private property on both sides of the highway along which he is standing or walking; and to provide a penalty for violation of such ordinance not to exceed a fine of $100. The provisions of this section shall not apply to persons carrying loaded firearms in moving vehicles or for purposes other than hunting, or to persons acting at the time in defense of persons or property.


    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...cod+15.2-915.2

    § 15.2-915.2. Regulation of transportation of a loaded rifle or shotgun.

    The governing body of any county or city may by ordinance make it unlawful for any person to transport, possess or carry a loaded shotgun or loaded rifle in any vehicle on any public street, road, or highway within such locality. Any violation of such ordinance shall be punishable by a fine of not more than $100. Conservation police officers, sheriffs and all other law-enforcement officers shall enforce the provisions of this section. No ordinance adopted pursuant to this section shall be enforceable unless the governing body adopting such ordinance so notifies the Director of the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries by registered mail prior to May 1 of the year in which such ordinance is to take effect.

    The provisions of this section shall not apply to duly authorized law-enforcement officers or military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, nor to any person who reasonably believes that a loaded rifle or shotgun is necessary for his personal safety in the course of his employment or business.






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    Regular Member vbnative73's Avatar
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    So, basically, the state left it up to each locality to decide whether it is legal or not. Did I read that correctly?

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    KnightSG7 wrote:
    I have a 2007 Mustang, and I was wondering if there is anything prohibiting me from rigging some sort of rack for my 870 on the underside of my trunk lid?

    Just like the police, so when you open your trunk, its smack dab in your face and accessible.

    Thanks!
    Whatever you do, don't drive into DC or MD with it loaded...
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    roscoe13 wrote:
    Whatever you do, don't drive into DCwith it loaded...
    or unloaded in a "firing/working" condition.
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

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    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    ed wrote:
    roscoe13 wrote:
    Whatever you do, don't drive into DCwith it loaded...
    or unloaded in a "firing/working" condition.
    Unless you're just passing through...

    CITE- 18 USC Sec. 926A 01/02/2006
    -EXPCITE- TITLE 18
    - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE PART I
    - CRIMES CHAPTER 44
    - FIREARMS
    -HEAD- Sec. 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms

    -STATUTE- Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    vbnative73 wrote:
    So, basically, the state left it up to each locality to decide whether it is legal or not. Did I read that correctly?
    Virginia allows you to OC.... this is for handguns and long guns. So in a car with a handgun would be no different that a long gun, right?

    But it does appear that the state has left long gun carry in vehicles up to the local jurisdiction to decide.

    So you will need to check each locality you plan to be in to be sure it is OK.

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    I've thought about getting the BSR-1 here http://www.bigskyracks.com/nonlocking.html#bsr

    to mount my AR-15 on the inside trunk-lid of the M5. I may do it once I finish the in-cab holster mount for it.



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    LEO 229 wrote:
    vbnative73 wrote:
    So, basically, the state left it up to each locality to decide whether it is legal or not. Did I read that correctly?
    Virginia allows you to OC.... this is for handguns and long guns. So in a car with a handgun would be no different that a long gun, right?

    But it does appear that the state has left long gun carry in vehicles up to the local jurisdiction to decide.

    So you will need to check each locality you plan to be in to be sure it is OK.
    The DGIF publishes each city and county ordnance pertaining to hunting in its annual hunting and fishing pamphlet. (This includes any loaded shotgun or rifle laws) They are available free of charge at most places that sell guns or ammunition in Virginia. I got mine at Walmarts. Just make sure you get the current edition. They are published on July 1 of each year.


    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitableand let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come . PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Very good info source, huh?

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    Very good info source, huh?

    Yes actually it is. It is the reason why cities and counties must notify DGIF by 1 May of any such law.

    It also has very good info on when and where hunting is permitted within the Commonwealth . Lots of good reading, all for free!


    Here is the online link, page 16:

    http://www.dgif.state.va.us/hunting/...mallerfile.pdf

    The harvesting data is now in a separate pamphlet link here:

    http://www.dgif.state.va.us/wildlife...comparison.pdf


    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitableand let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come . PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    I looked over the Regs to see what had changed and here are the long gun transport areas.

    19. It is unlawful to transport, possess or
    carry a loaded rifle in any vehicle
    while on the road from October 1
    through February 15.


    21. It is unlawful to transport or possess
    a loaded shotgun or loaded rifle on
    the road from October 1 through Feb.
    15.

    22. It is unlawful to possess a loaded
    firearm on the road except when permission
    to hunt is obtained from
    landowners on each side.

    23. It is unlawful to transport or possess
    a loaded shotgun or loaded rifle on
    the road from sundown to sunrise.



    30. It is unlawful to carry a loaded
    firearm on the road or on the right-ofway.

    34. It is unlawful to transport or possess
    a loaded shotgun or rifle in a vehicle
    on a road during open deer season

    54. It is unlawful to transport, possess, or
    carry a loaded rifle or shotgun in any
    vehicle on any public street, road or
    highway

    68. It shall be unlawful for any person to
    transport, possess or carry a loaded
    shotgun, rifle, pistol, or firearm of
    any nature in any vehicle or on his
    person over, along or on any public
    street, road or highway in the city.


    Accomack 43
    Albemarle 16, 54
    Amherst 18
    Arlington 59
    Buckingham 12, 60
    Caroline 6, 17
    Campbell 11, 22
    Charles City 7, 33, 42
    Chesapeake 29, 30, 46
    Chesterfield 7, 14, 22,
    37, 54, 70
    Clarke 25, 54
    Culpeper 18, 22, 54
    Cumberland 5, 17, 27, 74
    Danville 54
    Dinwiddie 12, 13, 42
    Essex 7, 42, 49
    Fairfax 2, 25, 45
    Fauquier 14, 18, 22, 36
    37, 54
    Floyd 18
    Franklin 26
    Gate City 55
    Gloucester 14
    Goochland 2, 9, 17, 23
    Greensville 15, 21, 22
    Halifax 2, 33, 38, 61
    Hampton (city) 31, 45
    Hanover 7, 20, 46, 53
    Isle of Wight 8, 12, 35
    James City 40, 54
    King George 6,17, 22, 26, 54
    King and Queen 39, 42
    King William 10, 17, 18, 28
    Lancaster 6, 12, 26
    Loudoun 22, 54, 62, 63,
    64, 65
    Louisa 4, 9, 17, 27
    Lunenburg 17
    Madison 22, 25, 54
    Mecklenburg 27
    Middlesex 26
    Nelson 22
    New Kent 8, 12, 25, 54
    Newport News 1
    Northampton 7, 53
    Northumberland 17, 26, 42, 54
    Orange 18, 22, 34
    Petersburg 54
    Pittsylvania 26
    Poquoson (city) 68, 69, 71, 72
    Prince George 7, 9, 32, 42
    Prince William 2, 12, 18
    Rappahannock 18
    Richmond 6, 7, 66, 67
    Richmond (city) 54
    Roanoke 25, 54
    Southampton 3, 8, 19, 41, 42
    Stafford 18, 54
    Suffolk 44, 52
    Surry 7, 53, 54
    Sussex 7, 48, 73
    Virginia Beach 2, 7, 18, 54,
    56, 57, 58
    Warren 54
    Westmoreland 24, 50
    Williamsburg 1, 54
    York 46, 47

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    Reviewing that pamphlet for about the 100th time in my life, I've noticed something intriguing....maybe its because I'm more familiar with pre-emption laws now.

    According to the pamphlet, in Poquoson: "It shall be unlawful for any person to
    transport, possess or carry a loaded shotgun, rifle, pistol, or firearm of any nature in any vehicle or on his person over, along or on any public street, road or highway in the city."

    Stated like this, sounds to me like it violates pre-emption. Guess I need to research the actually city code. I'll post what I find out under a new thread.

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    bayboy42 wrote:
    Reviewing that pamphlet for about the 100th time in my life, I've noticed something intriguing....maybe its because I'm more familiar with pre-emption laws now.

    According to the pamphlet, in Poquoson: "It shall be unlawful for any person to
    transport, possess or carry a loaded shotgun, rifle, pistol, or firearm of any nature in any vehicle or on his person over, along or on any public street, road or highway in the city."

    Stated like this, sounds to me like it violates pre-emption. Guess I need to research the actually city code. I'll post what I find out under a new thread.
    I saw that!! Not sure that is allowed.

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    bayboy42 wrote:
    Reviewing that pamphlet for about the 100th time in my life, I've noticed something intriguing....maybe its because I'm more familiar with pre-emption laws now.

    According to the pamphlet, in Poquoson: "It shall be unlawful for any person to
    transport, possess or carry a loaded shotgun, rifle, pistol, or firearm of any nature in any vehicle or on his person over, along or on any public street, road or highway in the city."

    Stated like this, sounds to me like it violates pre-emption. Guess I need to research the actually city code. I'll post what I find out under a new thread.
    Per municode:

    Sec. 54-203. Transporting or carrying loaded firearm on street or highway.


    (a)It shall be unlawful and a class 4 misdemeanor for any person to transport, possess or carry a loaded shotgun, rifle, pistol or firearm of any nature in any vehicle or on his person over, along or on any public street, road or highway in the city.

    (b)The provisions of this section shall not apply to any person exempted from the provisions of section 54-208, to military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties or to any person who reasonably believes that a loaded firearm is necessary for his personal safety in the course of his employment or business. This subsection shall not be construed as authorizing the carrying of a concealed weapon in violation of section 54-208.

    (Code 1982, § 24-4)

    And here is 54-108 for reference

    Sec. 54-208. Carrying concealed weapon.

    (a)If any person carries about his person, hid from common observation, any pistol, or any other firearm or weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind, dirk, Bowie knife, switchblade knife, razor, slingshot, metal knucks, or any weapon of like kind, or nun chahka or any other similar flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which instrument may also be known as a "nonchuck" or "nonchaku," shuriken, fighting chain orany weapon of like kind, he shall be guilty of a class 1 misdemeanor, and such weapon shall be forfeited to the city and may be seized by an officer as forfeited, and such as may be needed for police officers and conservators of the peace shall be devoted to that purpose and the remainder shall be destroyed by the officer having them in charge.

    (b)This section shall not apply to any person while in his own place of abode or the curtilage thereof or to police officers, sergeants, sheriffs or deputy sheriffs.

    (c)This section shall not apply to any of the following individuals while in the discharge of their official duties:

    (1)Carriers of the United States mail in rural districts.

    (2)Officers or guards of any state correctional institution.

    (3)Noncustodial employees of the state department of corrections designated to carry weapons by the secretary of public safety or the director of the department of corrections pursuant to Code of Virginia, § 53-39.

    (4)Conservators of the peace, except that the following conservators of the peace shall not be permitted to carry a concealed weapon unless a permit is obtained pursuant to Code of Virginia, § 18.2-8:

    a.Notaries public.

    b.Registrars.

    c.Drivers, operators or any motor vehicle or other persons in charge of any motor vehicle carrier of passengers for hire.

    (d)This section shall not apply to any person who has been granted permission to carry a concealed weapon in accord with state law.

    (Code 1982, § 24-2)


    Seems to me like it still violates state pre-emption.........thoughts....comments?



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    bayboy42 wrote:
    bayboy42 wrote:
    Reviewing that pamphlet for about the 100th time in my life, I've noticed something intriguing....maybe its because I'm more familiar with pre-emption laws now.

    According to the pamphlet, in Poquoson: "It shall be unlawful for any person to
    transport, possess or carry a loaded shotgun, rifle, pistol, or firearm of any nature in any vehicle or on his person over, along or on any public street, road or highway in the city."

    Stated like this, sounds to me like it violates pre-emption. Guess I need to research the actually city code. I'll post what I find out under a new thread.
    Per municode:

    Sec. 54-203. Transporting or carrying loaded firearm on street or highway.


    (a)It shall be unlawful and a class 4 misdemeanor for any person to transport, possess or carry a loaded shotgun, rifle, pistol or firearm of any nature in any vehicle or on his person over, along or on any public street, road or highway in the city.

    (b)The provisions of this section shall not apply to any person exempted from the provisions of section 54-208, to military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties or to any person who reasonably believes that a loaded firearm is necessary for his personal safety in the course of his employment or business. This subsection shall not be construed as authorizing the carrying of a concealed weapon in violation of section 54-208.

    (Code 1982, § 24-4)

    And here is 54-108 for reference

    Sec. 54-208. Carrying concealed weapon.

    (a)If any person carries about his person, hid from common observation, any pistol, or any other firearm or weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind, dirk, Bowie knife, switchblade knife, razor, slingshot, metal knucks, or any weapon of like kind, or nun chahka or any other similar flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which instrument may also be known as a "nonchuck" or "nonchaku," shuriken, fighting chain orany weapon of like kind, he shall be guilty of a class 1 misdemeanor, and such weapon shall be forfeited to the city and may be seized by an officer as forfeited, and such as may be needed for police officers and conservators of the peace shall be devoted to that purpose and the remainder shall be destroyed by the officer having them in charge.

    (b)This section shall not apply to any person while in his own place of abode or the curtilage thereof or to police officers, sergeants, sheriffs or deputy sheriffs.

    (c)This section shall not apply to any of the following individuals while in the discharge of their official duties:

    (1)Carriers of the United States mail in rural districts.

    (2)Officers or guards of any state correctional institution.

    (3)Noncustodial employees of the state department of corrections designated to carry weapons by the secretary of public safety or the director of the department of corrections pursuant to Code of Virginia, § 53-39.

    (4)Conservators of the peace, except that the following conservators of the peace shall not be permitted to carry a concealed weapon unless a permit is obtained pursuant to Code of Virginia, § 18.2-8:

    a.Notaries public.

    b.Registrars.

    c.Drivers, operators or any motor vehicle or other persons in charge of any motor vehicle carrier of passengers for hire.

    (d)This section shall not apply to any person who has been granted permission to carry a concealed weapon in accord with state law.

    (Code 1982, § 24-2)


    Seems to me like it still violates state pre-emption.........thoughts....comments?


    IANAL but I was under the impression that local governments could only regulate the discharge of firearms, nothing else (regarding firearms).


  18. #18
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    My Point exactly. Any OCDO members from Poquoson? I know there are some York COunty folks around. Anyone else have any thoughts on whether or not Poquoson't ordinance violates state preemption?

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    bayboy42 wrote:
    My Point exactly. Any OCDO members from Poquoson? I know there are some York COunty folks around. Anyone else have any thoughts on whether or not Poquoson't ordinance violates state preemption?
    Of course it violates state preemption. Poquoson is a small town. They haven't had any issues sothe lawhasn't changed in a while. An e-mail to the town's attorney should fix the problem.

    Don't get excited until they give you a bad attitude.

    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitableand let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come . PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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