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Thread: New to the forums and had a question to bring up.

  1. #1
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    First I'd like to say I've been reading the forums here for quite some time and have enjoyed all of your input and stories in the matter of Open Carry. I live in Northern California (El Dorado County) to be more specific. I actually had the pleasure to talk one on one with one of our Sheriff deputies while doing some work at his residence. I had asked him about open carry, and he basically referred to case law, stating that "if a loaded magazine and firearm are within reach of each other it is considered loaded". Now I have read all of your great information here but don't understand his conclusion. I've seen the case law posted on the site and it seems very unclear to me what the true definition of a "loaded firearm" is in the state of California. Some of the case law seems to agree with his statement, where other law states that it must be attached to the firearm. I'd also like to throw this out there for people to read. Listening to some of the interviews and posts on this site and other sites. People always ask, "Why open carry VS CCW?" Well I live in a pretty rural county where LEO's are pretty laid back. However it is still damn near impossible for an average citizen such as myself to aquire a CCW here, so I can imagine how hard it would be to get one in a big city. They want you to have cause, such as being a business owner, or someone who carries large amounts of cash. Are business owners the only people who crimes are comitted against?? Shouldn't I be able to protect myself and my family? So to answer these people's questions, I would open carry because for the average citizen it's near impossible to get a CCW. If the average Joe could get a CCW, I would go that route, but it seems that isn't an option. What's the only other option to have a firearm to protectmyself, when I'm out and about hunting, fishing, or just going to the bank to make a deposit? It seems open carry! Anyhow enough ranting, just wanted to see what you guys think. Thank you.

  2. #2
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    (g) A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of this section when there is an unexpended cartridge
    or shell in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or
    clip thereof attached to the firearm. **



    ** There is a common misconception that merely possessing both a firearm and ammunition in close proximity legally equates to loaded. This
    mistake stems from several PC sections that do not apply to the law-abiding gun owner. 12001(j) only applies to 12023 (carry with intent to
    commit a felony). 12021.5 only applies to street gang crimes as defined in 186.22. 12022.2 only applies to armor piercing ammunition.
    12025(b)(6)(A) is a sentence enhancement which only applies if one violates 12025 (carrying concealed). 171e only applies inside the State
    Capitol, legislative offices, office of the Governor, Governor’s residence, etc.


    http://www.californiaopencarry.org/C...aOpenCarry.pdf
    - read that

    I think the cop is talking about concealed OR someone doing something illegally versus a lawful open UNLOADED carry even if you have mags on your person BUT not attached to the gun.

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member MudCamper's Avatar
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    Second time I've heard of a cop saying that it's "case law" of some kind. Probably a rumor that spreads within the law enforcement community, as a way to justify the attitude without understanding why.

    IMO, the reason cops think ammo=loaded is because more often than not, when they encounter someone with a firearm and ammuntion, it is true, because of some other violation the perp is committing. Cops just aren't used to encountering normal law-abiding gun owners with their guns and ammo on them.



  4. #4
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/11495.html

    Read this, it has all the pertenant Penal Codes. I know of no case law that states a law abiding citizen who is carrying both a gun and ammo for that gunis guilty of carrying a loaded gun.

    I suggest you ask the Deputy if he could provide you with the actual case law he was refering to. Dollars to DONUTS, he can't.

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    Ok my next question you guys might be able to help me out with is what about in a motor vehicle. For example if I'm heading up the freeway to go out and do some target shooting, does the gun have to be carried in a locked container seperate from the ammo? Once again, I've read lots of things on this but have never actually seen written law on the subject. He also said that this is how it must be transported. He agreed with me that lie abiding citizens should be able to carry, but that he didn't make the laws. So he wasn't an anti civilian gun LEO, maybe just doesn't understand the law??

  6. #6
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    you keep saying how you have read everything on here but the ONE thing I keep quoting has ALL the answers to the questions you are asking IN it. Here it is BUT I also quoted the part that might help with the question you have. Read through that file a few times and odds are most questions you have will be answered.

    from the same pdf file

    http://www.californiaopencarry.org/C...aOpenCarry.pdf

    - Hangtown wrote:
    Ok my next question you guys might be able to help me out with is what about in a motor vehicle. For example if I'm heading up the freeway to go out and do some target shooting, does the gun have to be carried in a locked container seperate from the ammo? Once again, I've read lots of things on this but have never actually seen written law on the subject. He also said that this is how it must be transported. He agreed with me that lie abiding citizens should be able to carry, but that he didn't make the laws. So he wasn't an anti civilian gun LEO, maybe just doesn't understand the law??

  7. #7
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    Read the flyer, stop listening to LE. They are not attorneys, and most will spew the same BS.

    Did you ask him to provide you with a citation so you could look the case up? I bet if you do he'll say, "I don't know the name of the case but I know it exists." Or maybe just, "do as I say peasant!" (OK, probably more likely the former than the latter...)
    Participant in the Free State Project - "Liberty in Our Lifetime" - www.freestateproject.org
    Supporter of the CalGuns Foundation - http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/
    Supporter of the Madison Society - www.madison-society.org


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