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Thread: Should I carry to the park on the 4th of July?

  1. #1
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    Ok, here's the situation. NC law leaves the decision of whether or not to restrict firearms in city parks and buildings up to the city. Every 4th of July in New Bern, NC, the local Marine Band performs in the parkuntil dark, when the fireworks start. In years past, local police have had the park taped off, and have had "checkpoints" where they checked coolers and bags for alcohol and explosives. I don't know if they were checking for weapons, as I never passed through any of those checkpoints.

    Anyway, since New Bern law says nothing about carrying on the grounds of their parks, it's obvious legal. I tested this during another celebration in the same park, however they didn't have any sort of "security" that time around.

    So, I KNOW there is nothing illegal about carrying in that park, but I'm worried about passing through the checkpoint. I have a couple of options:

    1.) Carry openly and pass through the checkpoint. I MAY be stopped, at which point I will either have to comply, or argue that since there is no law against it, they can't legally stop me.

    2.) Carry openly and bypass the checkpoint. This isn't a hard thing to do, and every year a lot of people do it. Basically, if you park in the hotel parking lot that is next to the park, you'd have to walk all the way back up to the street to move through the checkpoint. Most people just walk under the cop tape with no issues. This would avoid an obvious confrontation, but it leaves the possibility of a worse confrontation if they decide to approach me while we're watching the show.

    3.) Carry concealed. Normally I might just do this to avoid any possible fuss, especially since I'll have my family with me. But, this is the 4th of July we're talking about! I kinda feel like a coward for even considering this option.

    So what do you guys think?

  2. #2
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    I'd open carry and enter the park where ever its most convenient for you.

  3. #3
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    Open carry and enter where you please.

    From the time I get off work tomorrow until I go back on Monday morning, I will be open carrying - brief exception for church on Sunday where I'll be concealed.

    With Independence Day this weekend, the historic SCOTUS decision, and all the open carry press we've been getting lately - there is never a better time than now.

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    Well, I'm not a lawyer, but I will remind you what the NC ccw law says with regards to prohibited areas to carry concealed:

    In areas of assemblies, parades, funerals or demonstrations (GS 14-277.2)

    Seems to me that what you are describing as taking place in the park in New Bern could be viewed as an assembly and therefore you would be in violation of the ccw law if you concealed carry there.

    Don't know how open carry would be viewed.

  5. #5
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    I would CC nothing wrong with that.... Or you could CC then when the show is about over walk outside and come back in OCing if you have something to prove to yourself.

    If you think they will give you a hard time, just CC and enjoy your time, then when it is about done, see what they would do if they saw you OC. You would have already got to see the show.

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    North Carolina is one of those weird states that has all types of crazy off limits places for concealed carry, but nearly as many for OC. All the places listed as off limits in the concealed carry law are specifically listed as off limits only for that type of carry. So, even though you run the risk of ruffling the feathers of a couple of antis (who'll probably be thinking, "there are kids here! Why don't you cover that thing up!). Because NC law is broad with regard to where firearms can't be carried concealed, you'd probably be better off carrying openly. However, just in case you run into some a**hole LEO, make sure you carry a copy of the law with you.

  7. #7
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    jkeith wrote:

    Well, I'm not a lawyer, but I will remind you what the NC ccw law says with regards to prohibited areas to carry concealed:

    In areas of assemblies, parades, funerals or demonstrations (GS 14-277.2)

    Seems to me that what you are describing as taking place in the park in New Bern could be viewed as an assembly and therefore you would be in violation of the ccw law if you concealed carry there.

    Don't know how open carry would be viewed.
    I am intimately familiar with NC law, and the statute you're referring to goes on to specifically describe the areas that are, indeed, off limits. This event is NOT off limits. I already clarified that. It IS technically legal to carry there.

    § 14‑277.2. Weapons at parades, etc., prohibited.

    (a) It shall be unlawful for any person participating in, affiliated with, or present as a spectator at any parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration upon any private health care facility or upon any public place owned or under the control of the State or any of its political subdivisions to willfully or intentionally possess or have immediate access to any dangerous weapon. Violation of this subsection shall be a Class 1 misdemeanor. It shall be presumed that any rifle or gun carried on a rack in a pickup truck at a holiday parade or in a funeral procession does not violate the terms of this act.
    You see, the law actually only makes parades, funeral processions, picket lines, and demonstrations off limits.

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    Thanks for the clarification on the NC law with regards to assemblies. I guess the other type of assembly, as specified in the statute, is one at which there is an admission fee.

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    well.... I see your view on not wanting to CC, but I personaly would just so I can still enjoy my time with my family on the holiday without any hassel.

    Let us know what you do tomorrow and have a great 4th

    I use to live in Havelock, I really enjoyed that area

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    DON'T "sneak under the tape" with a firearm. You'd be risking "armed criminal trespass."
    Go ahead and open carry, go through the check point. I'd have a copy of the current statutes and be ready to enumerate them. I'd also be ready to have the police block you from entry. They don't need the "no weapons" law to ban you. They can cite "disorderly conduct" -- which would be your deciding you want to openly carry a loaded firearm into a park during a holiday assembly.

    That's what they'd probably decide to do, and the City Attorney would likely back up their decision.

    If you sneak in under the tape you'll be charged with armed criminal trespass, disorderly conduct and whatever else they decide to put together on a multiple pleading.

    "Multiple pleading" -- That's a formal legal term wherein they charge you with a broad array of related crimes, knowing that they have a good chance of getting several of them to stick. The recent example of multiple pleading is OJ Simpson in Las Vegas. He and his pals confront two vendors of sports memorabilia and he's now charged with TWELVE FELONY COUNTS related to armed robbery.

    Go ahead and confront the police about firearms in the park. Just don't be surprise when they treat you like a rowdy, looking to create trouble.








  11. #11
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    SCOTUS 07-290 wrote:
    DON'T "sneak under the tape" with a firearm. You'd be risking "armed criminal trespass."
    Go ahead and open carry, go through the check point. I'd have a copy of the current statutes and be ready to enumerate them. I'd also be ready to have the police block you from entry. They don't need the "no weapons" law to ban you. They can cite "disorderly conduct" -- which would be your deciding you want to openly carry a loaded firearm into a park during a holiday assembly.

    That's what they'd probably decide to do, and the City Attorney would likely back up their decision.

    If you sneak in under the tape you'll be charged with armed criminal trespass, disorderly conduct and whatever else they decide to put together on a multiple pleading.

    "Multiple pleading" -- That's a formal legal term wherein they charge you with a broad array of related crimes, knowing that they have a good chance of getting several of them to stick. The recent example of multiple pleading is OJ Simpson in Las Vegas. He and his pals confront two vendors of sports memorabilia and he's now charged with TWELVE FELONY COUNTS related to armed robbery.

    Go ahead and confront the police about firearms in the park. Just don't be surprise when they treat you like a rowdy, looking to create trouble.
    The flaw in your logic here is that I wouldn't be doing anything illegal. The police don't have any legal authority or right to tell only certain people to get out of a public park as long as those people are not breaking any laws. I couldn't be trespassing since it's public property. And being legally armed in ANY instance is NOT grounds for a charge of disorderly conduct. If they attempted to arrest and charge me for that, I could and would sue them up one side and down the other.

    I think I'm going to openly carry and enter however the majority of people are entering. I wont be carrying any laws or statutes with me, since there's nothing that says it's ok, there's just nothing that says it isn't, either. Since I don't have a voice recorder, I guess I'll just be going with me and ma gun lol. Or is that ma gun and I? Well anyway, that's what I'm planning on doing. I'll let you guys know what happens!

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    Well, it's July 5th now, and I want to know what happened. Did you OC or CC? How did you enter the park? Did you get harassed by LEO?

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    tattedupboy wrote:
    Well, it's July 5th now, and I want to know what happened. Did you OC or CC? How did you enter the park? Did you get harassed by LEO?
    Detained on the Fourth of July

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    DreQo, I recommend against it. I think you'll get detained!

    Oh wait ...
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    You people spend most of your free time looking to get into confrontations with authority figures.

    If there's a "perimeter" set up around an event, and a "check point" then when you "breach" that "perimeter" or otherwise endeavor to "foil" or "evade" the security check point . . .

    Then you're guilty of criminal trespass. If you're armed, you're guilty of armed criminal trespass. In addition, they can charge you with "aggravated" armed criminal trespass because you formed the intent to breach security with malice aforethought.

    The event is sanctioned by the city, on public property. The city has the right to bar you from the event based upon "reasonable discretion." Basically that means if the police think you're being a jerk, they can demand that you leave.

    If you're bringing an openly carried firearm to the event, you're being a jerk. The scope and tenor of your "argument" here demonstrates that you're argumentative, and confrontational. That's grounds to bar you on the face of it. The gun just caps it -- pun intended.

    But go ahead!

    Obviously you're a legal whiz kid and more clever than the Prosecutor and District Attorney's Office.

  16. #16
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    Scotus, this is a personal request. Please just don't post in any threads that I start. I do not see a bit of value in your opinions, and most of your facts are just plain wrong.

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