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Thread: CT Board of firearms permit examiners: "Open carry is not illegal"

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    Hi all. The Connecticut Board of Firearms Permit Examiners website has been updated, and it includes a statement that open carry is not illegal! We all knew this to be true, but this is the first time it has been put into writing.

    http://www.ct.gov/bfpe/cwp/view.asp?...18126&PM=1

    In the CT section of this forum we have a thread going about it, and I would like to invite everyone to participate in the discussion. What we need is a plan of action to educate 911 call centers and police departments, since they typically in the past have charged open carriers, or people who accidentally expose a concealed firearm with breach of peace.

    We could really use thehelp of those with experience in other states where open carry islegal, but the police are resistant to allowing it.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum14/12828.html

    Please feel free to join in the discussion. Thanks!

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but CT only allows OC for permit holders, doesn't it? I'm pretty sure they're not referring to the traditional kind, of no permit required, are they?

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    That's right. Our permit is a "Permit to carry pistols and revolvers." It doesn't specify open or concealed, but carrying either way without it is illegal. It is actually required to even purchase a handgun in CT.

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    so many CT folks are under the impression that we are a Closed Carry only state that I was chastised for even asking the question at the gun shop the other day. Personally, I am afraid of open carrying by myself and if I were to meet up and open carry with some of you fine folks, I would feel better.

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    "not illegal?"

    Why can't they say IT IS LEGAL!

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    It's the same thing. If something isn't forbidden, it is allowed.
    They are deinitely resistant to it. In the past, their position has been that they "recommend" concealment. They have said that they can revoke your permit if someone complains about seeing your handgun and becomes alarmed. If anyone tried open carrying, police would enforce it as if it were illegal, falsely charging breach of peace, and revoking your carry permit.
    I am going to attempt to rally the opencarry.org CT members to assemble a team of people to put together information to distribute to 911 call centers and chiefs of police on the legality of open carry, and the fact that breach of peace cannot be charged based on someone's negative reaction to one's lawful behavior. There is already precedent set for the breach of peace issue related to carrying in CT, where a man was charged with it when he inadvertently exposed his handgun. He won his case, and is in the process of waiting 14 months for the permit examiners appeal board to hear his case to re-instate his permit. They are backlogged very badly, and this is a violation of their own timeline policy.
    We already have some stuff from members from other states that we could use as templates to draft letters and make pamphlets, and we could really use as much of this type of thing as possible to help in drafting letters to use here in CT.

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    terrafirma wrote:
    so many CT folks are under the impression that we are a Closed Carry only state that I was chastised for even asking the question at the gun shop the other day.* Personally, I am afraid of open carrying by myself and if I were to meet up and open carry with some of you fine folks,* I would feel better.
    I am going to start a one man education program, and if you'd like to join me, we can be a two man team, and hopefully as we go we can get more people spreading the word on this in CT. I would participate in a group open carry, but I think we need to start with education of 911 centers and chiefs of police in our towns so that we don't end up getting arrested and having to pay lawyers to fight for us. Maybe we could even have a lawyer on retainer, and set up some sort of donation fund to pay his fees to write letters, and to defend anyone who gets charged.

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    LKB3rd wrote:
    terrafirma wrote:
    so many CT folks are under the impression that we are a Closed Carry only state that I was chastised for even asking the question at the gun shop the other day. Personally, I am afraid of open carrying by myself and if I were to meet up and open carry with some of you fine folks, I would feel better.
    I am going to start a one man education program, and if you'd like to join me, we can be a two man team, and hopefully as we go we can get more people spreading the word on this in CT. I would participate in a group open carry, but I think we need to start with education of 911 centers and chiefs of police in our towns so that we don't end up getting arrested and having to pay lawyers to fight for us. Maybe we could even have a lawyer on retainer, and set up some sort of donation fund to pay his fees to write letters, and to defend anyone who gets charged.
    the way to do gthis is tgo hold small low key soicial gatherings and invite press coverage - a 1 reporter exclusive works great

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    Mike wrote:
    LKB3rd wrote:
    terrafirma wrote:
    so many CT folks are under the impression that we are a Closed Carry only state that I was chastised for even asking the question at the gun shop the other day. Personally, I am afraid of open carrying by myself and if I were to meet up and open carry with some of you fine folks, I would feel better.
    I am going to start a one man education program, and if you'd like to join me, we can be a two man team, and hopefully as we go we can get more people spreading the word on this in CT. I would participate in a group open carry, but I think we need to start with education of 911 centers and chiefs of police in our towns so that we don't end up getting arrested and having to pay lawyers to fight for us. Maybe we could even have a lawyer on retainer, and set up some sort of donation fund to pay his fees to write letters, and to defend anyone who gets charged.
    the way to do gthis is tgo hold small low key soicial gatherings and invite press coverage - a 1 reporter exclusive works great
    I would absolutely donate my time to this cause, however I feel particularly vunerable to revocation of my permit since it was issued to me just 2 days ago. I feel I might come off as one of those inelligble people who, even though their background is completely untarnished, fell through the cracks of the permitting process. That being said:

    IMO, there are at least 4 types of police in this state.
    1. Local PD's in small towns like in my town of Coventry. The officers are usually locals and know the people pretty well.
    2. Local PD's in LARGE towns/cities. You know the ones I'm talking about: Hartford, Waterbury, Manchester, New Haven, ect. I wouldn't go near a larger CT city while OCing. The larger towns/cities tend to have more crime.
    3. RESIDENT state troopers in small towns w/o local PD's. While these troopers are usually solo for an entire small town, if you were to get to know them, they may act as a messenger to the barracks that they are assigned to.
    4. State troopers operating out of a barracks. These guys seem like hit or miss in regards to what they know about the true legality of things. Some might be open to reading the statues if an OCer were to present them while others would simply arrest and revoke.

    With my opinion on the kinds of police we have in this state put forth above, I would feel most comfortable demonstrating while OCing (trash pickup, other community service) in a smaller town with a local PD AFTER steps were taken to educate the chief of police and officers.

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    Your right to bear arms trumps unfounded alarm. Some people are scared of bugs... water, fire, the color purple...all sorts of things. What is CLEAR... legally anyway... is INTENT. Hoplophobia (fear of firearms) isn't something you can do much about... but it doesn't make OC illegal in any way. 911 operators sould be educated to ask certain questions in 'Man with a gun' calls... such as What are 'they' doing with the gun? If the complainant sez... 'Walking around with it in a holster." The 911 should advise "It's legal... Have a nice day!" Your CT State Police Training Commission (or whatever) should promulgate this info for shift (roll call) heads up to the police.

    There is no Right not to be offended. There is a recognized Right (actual) to keep and bear arms. Here in AZ, OC's beenthe norm since before there was an Arizona. I'm pretty certain some noobs have called 911 on me... only to be told 'It's legal!". 'Never had a LEO even question me about my OC'd 1911-A1.

    Dont expect your local media.... TV or whatever to be of any help... They all have their agenda... 'n we kind'a know what that is.


    Bottom line... their personal opinions or perceptionsdon't matter. What matters is the LAW!

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    There's sure a lot of '...the law does not address this issue...' in the answers from the Board. It would be easier to pull teeth from a grizzly bear thanto get a plain answer from our 'public servants'.

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    Your right to bear arms trumps unfounded alarm. Some people are scared of bugs... water, fire, the color purple...all sorts of things. What is CLEAR... legally anyway... is INTENT. Hoplophobia (fear of firearms) isn't something you can do much about... but it doesn't make OC illegal in any way. 911 operators sould be educated to ask certain questions in 'Man with a gun' calls... such as What are 'they' doing with the gun? If the complainant sez... 'Walking around with it in a holster." The 911 should advise "It's legal... Have a nice day!" Your CT State Police Training Commission (or whatever) should promulgate this info for shift (roll call) heads up to the police.

    There is no Right not to be offended. There is a recognized Right (actual) to keep and bear arms. Here in AZ, OC's beenthe norm since before there was an Arizona. I'm pretty certain some noobs have called 911 on me... only to be told 'It's legal!". 'Never had a LEO even question me about my OC'd 1911-A1.

    Dont expect your local media.... TV or whatever to be of any help... They all have their agenda... 'n we kind'a know what that is.


    Bottom line... their personal opinions or perceptionsdon't matter. What matters is the LAW!
    Sonora:

    You're absolutely right in everything you've said. I wish thatgun-grabbing vermin of all stripes would suddenly 'see the light'. But I don't think that's ever going to happen.

    I think that folks who don't open carry are concerned about situations where they might get hassled (or worse) for NOT doing anything wrong.

    I OC about 70% of the time.It freaks my wife out when I leave home with my Sig enjoying the fresh air and sunshine instead of hiding under my shirt. I've OC'd in Shaws, Stop & Shop, Chili's, Olive Garden, Red Robin, Trader Joes, Best Buy, Target, Wal-Mart, Sears, Brueggers, Suburban Subaru, Quality Subaru, and more convenience stores than I can remember. I've never had a problem, never been asked to 'leave it in the car' or asked to leave the premises.

    Maybe it's because I'm a middle-aged guy who's pretty 'vanilla' in appearence. I've been asked if I'm a LEO, asked how long I've been a detective, and one particularly scummy-looking guy asked if I was a bail agent. Go figure.

    I've seen a lot of ignorance and misconceptions regarding the gun laws in CT. In this state you can't own a select-fire riflebut you can own a full-auto-only machine gun (no AK's allowed; M60's or M2's are fine). Go figure.

    We just have to keep fighting.

    mg

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    I have a lawyer on retainer, and we are focusing on educating the chief of police in my town. We are putting together a letter, and hopefully a sit down meeting with the chief of police, where we will present the (lack of ) laws on the issue, tell him that this is something I intend to do in town, and make the point that there is no basis to arrest me. Once I get this done, I intend to use this as a template to use in the surrounding towns. I can probably help others to do so on their own in their towns, or direct them to the lawyer I am working with, because she is very good on this issue. But, I don't want to get ahead of myself.


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