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Thread: Arguments Against: Guns are only designed to kill?

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    Something I hear or readoften from the anti-gun (or otherwise ignorant) people is that "guns/assault weapons/handgunsare only designed to kill (people)." It was stated in theFX show "30 Days" this Tuesday and the pro-gun guy didn't have a good response if I remember correctly.

    How do you argue against something like that?

    I would tend to point out the 2+ million defensive gun uses in the US without even firing a shot, but what if they don't believe the studies?It would be hard for me to sufficiently argue that a firearm is designed to "defend" and not "attack."

    Or perhaps a comparison of other objects and their "intended" uses? A gun is simply designed to fire a projectile, and can be used for good or evil, the same as a computer is simply designed to move bits of data around, and can be used for both as well? Pencils make lines on paper, cars move along carrying people & cargo, etc.?

    I would like to know if anyone has had a good comeback for this that actually seemed to change someone's belief that "Guns are only designed to kill."

    Thanks,

    ...Orygunner...

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    Oops. I just realized I should have posted this in the Why Open Carry forum instead of News & Political Alerts.

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    Orygunner wrote:
    Something I hear or readoften from the anti-gun (or otherwise ignorant) people is that "guns/assault weapons/handgunsare only designed to kill (people)." It was stated in theFX show "30 Days" this Tuesday and the pro-gun guy didn't have a good response if I remember correctly.

    How do you argue against something like that?

    I would tend to point out the 2+ million defensive gun uses in the US without even firing a shot, but what if they don't believe the studies?It would be hard for me to sufficiently argue that a firearm is designed to "defend" and not "attack."

    Or perhaps a comparison of other objects and their "intended" uses? A gun is simply designed to fire a projectile, and can be used for good or evil, the same as a computer is simply designed to move bits of data around, and can be used for both as well? Pencils make lines on paper, cars move along carrying people & cargo, etc.?

    I would like to know if anyone has had a good comeback for this that actually seemed to change someone's belief that "Guns are only designed to kill."

    Thanks,

    ...Orygunner...
    It's quite simple, really. They're exactly right; guns are designed for the sole purpose of destroying what they are fired at, and thatincludes killing living things that are targeted. That's why you have one; so you have the opportunity to kill the other guy before he can do the same to you. It's naive to think that a gun is anything less than a deadly weapon, and that buying one, training with it and carrying it is anything less than making the decision to kill if you have to.

    However, the question is largely irrelevant. Like anything else, the devil is in the details, but I will simplify; the proper question, whose answer willdetermineacceptance or condemnation,is not the purpose of a gun, but the intent of the user. All specifics aside there are two reasons to use a gun against another human; to gain, and to avoid loss. The first use is generally wrong, while the second is generally right. You as an LAC carry a gun for the second reason, because other people carry a gun for the first.

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    True - guns were designed to destroy when they are fired at...BUT.. a gun never kills unless there is a killer pulling the trigger.

    cars can kill just as easily. in fact, more people die in a car, then by guns, but the only time a car is deadly is if its misused.

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    My gun is intended for the defense of myself and especially my family. That is a far more necessary function than, say, a swimming pool.

    The right to self defense is a natural right.



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    I would "disarm" them by saying they are absolutely correct! Gunswere/are designedfor killing people, either evil or innocent.

    Some thoughts: Cameras weren't designed for child porn, but they are used for that. Knives weren't designed to kill people, but they do. Should they be banned? Ridiculous and no one would stand for it. Many things with innocent designs and uses can also hurt orkill, yet their utility far surpasses the detriment.

    Why then such a hatred for guns? Because their design IS for killing people! Evil people. But they DO have a dual purpose and that is to defend and protect innocent life from that same evil! (Hunting aside, as that was not the original design or intent, they were designed for war against people...)

    Ok, now why still a problem?Some people have been fooled by modern "progressive society" and the MSM/Hollywood/Politicians/Brady Bunch into believing that evil just doesn't exist, everyone is salvageable and all killing is bad.Of course that's all lip service and all changes the first time their life is threatened with a gun. There is a huge difference between criminal and intentional MURDER and killing for defense. By nature, oneisevil, the other is good.

    It's just hard for them to cut through all the layers of lies they've been fed to get to the truth that guns DO have a dual purpose, even though both involve the taking of a life: one innocent and the other evil.Even when confronted with the truth, they will still argue that nobody should die. Guess they should have had that talk with the criminal before he picked up the gun.

    While guns ARE for killing people, it is perhaps one of the most noble of weapons ever invented by man BECAUSE it has no other purpose!!. It will immediately bring out either the best in a person....or the worst.

    In the hands of evil they are used by criminals to MURDERor threaten to murder innocent life. But their PRIMARYpurpose is that in the hands of good and responsible people they are used toDEFEND and protect innocent life and they do that over 2.5 million times per year!

    That help?



    Edited because I realized the OP wasn't only about handguns...




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    It boils down to the fact that an armed citizen is a threat to the govt. A disarmed citizen is just a subject. Guns can control and give power and the left is all about more power - esp. govt. power. Disarm the public and they become sheep.

    They are working hard at destroying the 1st amendment with political correctness because freedom of speech gives the citizens power. the 2nd amendment gives us potential power to "rise up".

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    Since most handguns in the U.S. are made and sold in compliance with various laws etc. Maybe you couldstate that guns are only intended to kill bad people committing terrible crimes and that it is a misuse of a handgun and the responsibility of the criminal who uses it for other purposes.

    The purpose of alcohol is to enhance happiness and feelings of well-being. It is the criminal drunk-driver who makes it a problem.

    It is the purpose of cars to increase our mobility. It is the drunk, aggressive, stupid drivers who make them a problem. etc.

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    Was it Ben Franklin (again) that taught us that alcohol, "beer is proof of god's love"?

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    Part of the treaty to end WW2 with Germany was that they were no longer allowed to produce arms that were intended as an offensive platform. They were only allowed to produce defencive guns. Thus the H&K MP5-PDW. Even back at the time of the treaty both sides understood that there are guns used for offense and defence, and that there is a place for them both. Guns are only designed to kill? Yes. Is that bad? Not always. Try and convince a woman about to be mugged and rapped that her killing machine 357 magnum is a bad thing. I would say agree with the killing part. Just that some times killing a criminal just might save an innocent.

    Liko81 has the correct perspective.

    Dont bother thinking that you are going to "change their belief". Been married to a liberal from San Francisco for 8 years now. Still can't see the benefit of a gun in the house or on the hip. Will she change that belief? not bloody likely.

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    It's really a non-issue. Throw them into a loop and agree with them. If my firearm wasn't designed to kill I'd return it as defective.

    There are firearms that aren't designed to kill. A very small subset. Like.. those crazy pistols they use at the Olympic games. Although, you could still kill with one, I'm sure that wasn't the intent of the design.

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Was it Ben Franklin (again) that taught us that alcohol, "beer is proof of god's love"?
    Yep! "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy!"



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    Any tool does only what the hand that holds it, uses it to do.

    In my hand, my guns are uses to punch holes in paper and defend me and my family.

    From where I sit, those are both good things.


    Tarzan

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    BobCav wrote:
    I would "disarm" them by saying they are absolutely correct! Gunswere/are designedfor killing people, either evil or innocent.

    ...

    While guns ARE for killing people, it is perhaps one of the most noble of weapons ever invented by man BECAUSE it has no other purpose!!. It will immediately bring out either the best in a person....or the worst.

    In the hands of evil they are used by criminals to MURDERor threaten to murder innocent life. But their PRIMARYpurpose is that in the hands of good and responsible people they are used toDEFEND and protect innocent life and they do that over 2.5 million times per year!

    That help?


    However, if we agree that guns ARE designed to kill people, but people use them over 2 Million times a year in self defense without killing anyone, aren't we mis-using them? If guns are really designed to kill, shouldn't we have a lot more deadpeople?

    Hey. That's actually a REALLY good argument... It makesa great point AGAINST the statement "Guns are designed to kill."

    Here's how I would hope the argument would go:

    When someone uses a pencil, 99% of the time it's for writing. When someone uses a car, 99% of the time it's for transporting people or cargo. When something is used for what it's designed for, wouldn't you agree that the intended results are usually obtained? (Well, of course!)

    There are an estimated235 MILLION firearms in the US, and only about 10,000 people were murdered with them in 2006. Surely more than 11,000 guns were used by people, right? (Well, yes). If guns were really designed to kill, why don't we have more dead people? (I don't know...)

    The only logical answer can be:Because it is not a gun's primary purpose!

    The simplest purpose of a firearm is to expel a projectile at high speed, wouldn't you agree? (Yes, to kill!)

    Just the simple purpose, we'll get to killing in a moment. Because of that, there are multiple other uses of a firearm. Would you agree that target shooting and hunting game is possible with a firearm because of that simple purpose? (Yes, of course. Target shooting and killing!)

    However, because a firearm is capable offiring aprojectileat high speed, shooting a gun cankill a person, correct? (Yes! that's the point I'm making! Guns kill!)

    What about the THREAT of shooting a gun at someone without even firing it? Is that also a purpose of a firearm? Threatening to shoot someone if they don't do something, like hand over a purse or submit to a rape? (Well, yes.)

    According to DOJ statistics,there were only about 11,000 murders with a firearm in the US in 2006, but over 350,000 violent crimes were committed with firearms, including assaults and robberies, in which NOBODY DIED. Were the guns used in most of the crimes used to kill, or used to threaten? (If your statistics are correct, then it was mostly used to just threaten...)

    Note that those were CRIMINALS. Would you agree they likely hold human life in lower regard than good, law-abiding people? (Yes, I wouldthink so.)

    Multiple legitimatestudies show that law-abiding citizens use a firearm in the US anywhere from 700,000 to 3.5 million times every year in self-defense or to prevent a crime.Let's use thelowest estimate of these studies, 700,000, and compare it to the number of criminals shot in self defense by citizens in the US, which the DOJ reports in 2005 was under 100 for the entire country.less than 1 in 7000 times that a person uses a firearm for self-defense, to stop a crime, do they shoot and kill the criminal.

    Knowing this, would you agreethatjust the threat of using a gun to shoot someone is the most common, effectiveuse of a firearm? (Well, yes.)

    Firearm manufacturers design their guns to be comfortable, reliable, and accurate for their intended purpose, which simply is to fire a projectile. That purpose breeds other uses, some good (self defense, protecting the public, target shooting, hunting for food), and some for evil (murder, use of firearms in violent crime). The overwhelming majority of times a firearm is used is NOT to kill. wouldn't you agree?

    What possible answer could they give after that?

    ...Orygunner...



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    Guns are designed to give the common person equality over would be tyrants. Hence the Shogun class of professional warrior (armed with swords that were indeed designed to kill) became obsolete when gunpowder entered the equation.

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    "Isn't that a little like saying the female body is designed for prostitution?"

    Actually, I agree that the disarming affirmative is the best answer.

    "Yes, they are." Or perhaps an even better one:

    "Almost. They're designed to stop."
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    ne1 wrote in small part:
    Guns are designed to give the common person equality over would be tyrants.
    Interesting turn of phrase, 'equality over a tyrant.'

    Either we are equal or we are not. good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******

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    That is what a gun is designed for To kill bad people. I see nothing wrong with that!!

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    lostone1413 wrote:
    That is what a gun is designed for To kill bad people. I see nothing wrong with that!!
    +1

    Other than killing paper targets I really don't know of a use for guns other than killing something, preferably bad guys. Shotguns and rifles for killing animals but handguns are pretty much limited to people.

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    The same could be said for a bow and arrow.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    A gun is designed to kill people like a spoon is designed to make people fat.

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    They are designed with killing in mind, I wouldn't be carrying one for defense if they tickled someone. But it isn't their only function. They can have uses beyond that. Hunting, sport, ect.

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    Liko81 wrote:
    Orygunner wrote:
    Something I hear or readoften from the anti-gun (or otherwise ignorant) people is that "guns/assault weapons/handgunsare only designed to kill (people)." It was stated in theFX show "30 Days" this Tuesday and the pro-gun guy didn't have a good response if I remember correctly.

    How do you argue against something like that?

    I would tend to point out the 2+ million defensive gun uses in the US without even firing a shot, but what if they don't believe the studies?It would be hard for me to sufficiently argue that a firearm is designed to "defend" and not "attack."

    Or perhaps a comparison of other objects and their "intended" uses? A gun is simply designed to fire a projectile, and can be used for good or evil, the same as a computer is simply designed to move bits of data around, and can be used for both as well? Pencils make lines on paper, cars move along carrying people & cargo, etc.?

    I would like to know if anyone has had a good comeback for this that actually seemed to change someone's belief that "Guns are only designed to kill."

    Thanks,

    ...Orygunner...
    It's quite simple, really. They're exactly right; guns are designed for the sole purpose of destroying what they are fired at, and thatincludes killing living things that are targeted. That's why you have one; so you have the opportunity to kill the other guy before he can do the same to you. It's naive to think that a gun is anything less than a deadly weapon, and that buying one, training with it and carrying it is anything less than making the decision to kill if you have to.

    However, the question is largely irrelevant. Like anything else, the devil is in the details, but I will simplify; the proper question, whose answer willdetermineacceptance or condemnation,is not the purpose of a gun, but the intent of the user. All specifics aside there are two reasons to use a gun against another human; to gain, and to avoid loss. The first use is generally wrong, while the second is generally right. You as an LAC carry a gun for the second reason, because other people carry a gun for the first.
    Awesome! There does not exist a better way to throw it down than that!

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    My guns were designed to poke holes in objects, just like my power drill. Which object it pokes a hole in is entirely up to the operator.

    Saws are designed to cut stuff, it's the operators choice if it cuts trees, 2x4s, or human legs.

    Cars are designed to move themselves and their contents across the land. It is the drivers choice if it is loaded with family members going to the beach, or packed with explosives driving to a crowded street market.

    Blaming objects for peoples actions is stupid. Any object can be used for good or bad purposes, it is not the object that determines which action is taken.

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    I'd just say "Well, I've never killed anything with my gun but I've had lots of fun shooting the hell out of old furniture, appliances, and paper targets. I suppose it could be used for killing, but that's a last resort."

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