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Proposed Rule for National Park Gun Carry Plays Cruel Hoax on Americans Expecting to Carry Handguns

Phoenixphire

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Robin47 wrote:
HI All,

It is Impossible for a law which violates the Constitution to be valid.

Marbury vs. Madison, 5 US (2 Cranch) 137,174,176, 1803.

And: Miranda vs. Arizona, 384 US 436 p. 491.

And: Norton vs. Shelby County 118 US 425 p.442.

And: 16 AM Jur 2d,sec 177 late 2d Sec 256.

Robin47
Well, that is fine.

Most all of us here agree with you.

The problem is that the courts often hold that what the Constitution states, isn't what it really says.

I personally subscribed to that belief myself. Then I actually started reading some of the history of where the Constitution came from. It was a plain wording text, written to be understood by common people. That was it's very purpose, to protect the rights of the INDIVIDUAL common man. Government doesn't need protection from itself. Why would there need to be a Constitution, with rights and limits prescribed?

What has happened is that legal scholars and such have been allowed to pervert the original intent. They have over-analyzed, scrutinized, and, in doing so, "watered-down" the purpose. Instead of a clear, easy to read document, that requires little or no interpretation, those who profit from being Constitutional experts have convinced society that we need Constitutional experts to understand the "intent" of the language.

So, now, instead of: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

We are left with: "A free State, using a Federally provided National Guard, shall be hopefully preserved by the State, and the people shall keep and bear a limited number of arms, to be determined randomly at the whim of the State, and may be infringed if there is some "common sense" legislation available.

Do you really think that those who just fought a revolution against a standing army, to overcome tyranny, wanted us to only have M1 Garands and 1911s with 10 round mags, to stand against a fully modernized army?
 

Mike

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Anybody heard if the Bush Administration is going to announce a final rule??

I predict they may be too afraid to be pro-gun on the theory that it might hurt McCain-Palen ticket.
 

Sonora Rebel

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The Constitution refers to the People... not some unidentifiable sub-set. 2A predates the National Guard by over 130 years.
 

tarzan1888

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Mike wrote:
Anybody heard if the Bush Administration is going to announce a final rule??......

I was wondering that same thing myself.



Yesterday I got a call from my boss, who just got a permit. He was talking some friends. from out of the country to a National Park and wanted to know the rule. I had to tell him that even though they were talking of changing the rules, as it stood now, the gun had to be stored in an in-operable condition, while in the park.



Tarzan
 

Phoenixphire

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tarzan1888 wrote:
Mike wrote:
Anybody heard if the Bush Administration is going to announce a final rule??......

I was wondering that same thing myself.



Yesterday I got a call from my boss, who just got a permit. He was talking some friends. from out of the country to a National Park and wanted to know the rule. I had to tell him that even though they were talking of changing the rules, as it stood now, the gun had to be stored in an in-operable condition, while in the park.



Tarzan

Hmmm...

That is interesting.

I am not sure what your line of employment is (outdoors, LE, etc.), but the fact that your boss saw you as the best source to find out info on firearms laws is VERY cool.

Good on you!
 

tarzan1888

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Phoenixphire wrote:
tarzan1888 wrote:
Mike wrote:
Anybody heard if the Bush Administration is going to announce a final rule??......

I was wondering that same thing myself.



Yesterday I got a call from my boss, who just got a permit. He was talking some friends. from out of the country to a National Park and wanted to know the rule. I had to tell him that even though they were talking of changing the rules, as it stood now, the gun had to be stored in an in-operable condition, while in the park.



Tarzan

Hmmm...

That is interesting.

I am not sure what your line of employment is (outdoors, LE, etc.), but the fact that your boss saw you as the best source to find out info on firearms laws is VERY cool.

Good on you!

My boss is an accountant, I am a geologist. In the past year,my boss and our company Forester have both gotten firearm permits. I helped my boss pick out his carry piece.

I travel all over the country and I used to carry all the time, I have now sold all of my guns, but it was still a natural for him to ask me.



Tarzan
 

Venator

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tarzan1888 wrote:
Phoenixphire wrote:
tarzan1888 wrote:
Mike wrote:
Anybody heard if the Bush Administration is going to announce a final rule??......

I was wondering that same thing myself.



Yesterday I got a call from my boss, who just got a permit. He was talking some friends. from out of the country to a National Park and wanted to know the rule. I had to tell him that even though they were talking of changing the rules, as it stood now, the gun had to be stored in an in-operable condition, while in the park.



Tarzan

Hmmm...

That is interesting.

I am not sure what your line of employment is (outdoors, LE, etc.), but the fact that your boss saw you as the best source to find out info on firearms laws is VERY cool.

Good on you!

My boss is an accountant, I am a geologist. In the past year,my boss and our company Forester have both gotten firearm permits. I helped my boss pick out his carry piece.

I travel all over the country and I used to carry all the time, I have now sold all of my guns, but it was still a natural for him to ask me.



Tarzan
Why did you sell ALL your guns?
 

tarzan1888

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Venator wrote:
.....
Why did you sell ALL your guns?



I have studied history.

History repeats itself.

Our words will condem or save us.

All things considered, that was the logical route for me to take.

To quote Tiny Tim, "God bless us everyone."


Tarzan
 

mdguy90

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So if the parks decide to imitate state laws, then does that meant that OC states like VA, WY, and Montana's national parks will allow OC?
 

Tomahawk

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mdguy90 wrote:
So if the parks decide to imitate state laws, then does that meant that OC states like VA, WY, and Montana's national parks will allow OC?

Depends on which state organization gets to make the rules. In VA, for example, the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries (DGIF) gets to make the rules for carrying of weapons in state forests and national forests (which assume state law). Since DGIF currently allows only CC, it is likely that if they make the rules for national park carry it will be CC-only.

And yes, we Virginians are trying to get DGIF fixed.
 

Robin47

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Susanville, California, USA
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Park ranger ! "What are you doing with a Bow and knocked broadhead Arrow" ?

Me "Since I can't carry a gun legally this is for self protection" !

Ranger "But if we can't hear a BANG, we can't locate you".

Me "OH WELL" !!! Robin47
 

MomTeacherFarmerHunter

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I'd love to take my young daughter and 'baby to be' camping someday, but as of now I wouldn't dare take them to a state/national park to do so. I know my husband would never be able to go with us as the farm takes up way too much time and dedication. I wouldn't choose to go to one of these parks w/o being able to carry to protect my little ones and myself.

How is this type of law fair to my little ones? Will they ever get to enjoy these parks they way they should be able to? There are way too many wackos out there for me to feel safe in the middle of the woodsalone with2 babies and no gun. I hope they fix this issue soon so that my kids can someday enjoy the parks that we support to keep open. I've even worked on park restoration for a few summers building deer fenceand this only angers me more, that not only do my tax dollars pay to keep these parks up, running, and beautiful that I've spent countlesshours running bulldozers and working my hiney off to keep the wildlifepreserved,but that they won't support a young mom in bringing her children camping with a gun for self defense.

Maybe I'll make a phone call today or write a nice long letter. Thanks for all the great insight guys/gals.
 

Mike

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Robin47 wrote:
HI All,

It is Impossible for a law which violates the Constitution to be valid.

Marbury vs. Madison, 5 US (2 Cranch) 137,174,176, 1803.

And: Miranda vs. Arizona, 384 US 436 p. 491.

And: Norton vs. Shelby County 118 US 425 p.442.

And: 16 AM Jur 2d,sec 177 late 2d Sec 256.

Robin47

Right - and as of today, the Constitution has been read by the S. Ct. to mean that the states can violate the Second Amendment with impunity because the Second Amendment does not apply to any state.

I expect this to change starting with appeals and State S. Ct.s and eventually affirmed by the US S. Ct.
 
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