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Thread: Encounter at range/gun shop

  1. #1
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    I went to the Firing Line on Potomoc in Aurora to poke some holes in paper. I actually wasn't planning on shooting my defense weapon at the range, but I naturally OC'd it....these guys must be pro 2A right? I have CC'd in there many times, but of course they didn't really know, except once when I was trying a holster and I cleared before I went in.

    I get up to the counter and Opie Taylor (he must have turned 21 in June) who was operating the register looked at my holster and said, "You're going to have to open the action on that". "What?", I said with surprise.
    "There's a sign on the front door, all actions must be open", he replied. I said, "Well, this is loaded and chambered, and sitting quite safe in my holster, I didn't think that sign would apply to holstered weapons". He said it does and repeated his request-demand.

    At this point there was a decision to be made, do I comply with his request and go to the range, or refuse and leave? The fact that I'm making this decision in a gun store perplexed me...oh and by the way the employees behind the counter were all OC'ing, except for Opie. I thought about it -- why would they make this rule? Maybe it's for insurance reasons, or maybe they had an incident in the past. I've seen some bozos on the range before myself. I can certainly see a non-holstered weapon or rifle, but why holstered? What if it was in a case, they didn't check my case; maybe I had some dasdardly plan to whip out a cased weapon that was loaded (not as fast as using a holstered weapon, but not incredibly slow). If I was a BG, why would I even show the holstered weapon?

    Well I pussed out and asked him how he wanted me to clear the pistol, as I definetely wasn't comfortable clearing a weapon in a place of business (seemed much safer just to leave in the holster to me). He asked me to take it out of the holster and place it on the counter, with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. I did and Opie cleared it, launching the chambered round across the floor which earned Opie a scowl. I took my 9mm back, with the action open, and holstered it. I replaced the rogue cartrige in the magazine and put that in my pocket. I then proceeded to rent a range lane, and Opie asked if I needed anything. I said, "Yeah, a couple dozen B-2 targets please". He then asked if I needed some 9mm ammo. I said, "No, I'm just shooting my .22 today". The look on Opie's face was priceless.

    It bothered me though, and still bothers me. I know it was a private business and I didn't have the right to OC there if they didn't want me to, but I thought these guys were "us". Do you think I should have pressed the matter? I'm thinking about calling the owner about it, not necessarily to bitch but to understand why.





  2. #2
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    Shooting ranges have some real idiots visit.

    We've all seen them on a range at one time or another.

    The range isplaying it safe. You can'thave an ND with an openaction.

    Someranges just forbid loaded guns being brought in or off the line. Open action proves it not loaded.

    For myself, in an environment like that whichincludes gunsbeing handled, I'm happy with a policy like that.


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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  3. #3
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    Shooting ranges have some real idiots visit. We've all seen them on a range at one time or another. The range is playing it safe. You can't have an ND with an open action. Some ranges just forbid loaded guns being brought in or off the line. Open action proves it not loaded. For myself, in an environment like that which includes guns being handled, I'm happy with a policy like that.
    I agree, I've seen some idiots at the range. However, doesn't your logic apply to everyone? Aren't your arguements fuel for the anti lobby...these idiots we see do own a gun, maybe they even have a CCW permit: "We can't trust people with guns".

    Besides, I can't fathom how a holstered pistol is going to ND, whether carried by an idiot or no. And even if you make that argument, once you're on the range with the idiots any safety precautions such as open action are meaningless. We accept that risk when going to open ranges.

  4. #4
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    Dom wrote:
    Besides, I can't fathom how a holstered pistol is going to ND, whether carried by an idiot or no. And even if you make that argument, once you're on the range with the idiots any safety precautions such as open action are meaningless. We accept that risk when going to open ranges.

    Roger that Dom, I would have done an immediate about face and left the prem. I wonder if they require that LEO's to clear and lock the action open...doubt it cuz they are sooooo much better than us unwashed masses....

    I look at it this way. They are there only to make money and thats pretty much it. They could give a rats ass about your rights or what is truly safe. The holstered sidearm was perfectly safe as it was. Opie Cunningham made the situation more dangerous by insisting that it be cleared. Any handling of a sidearm increases the odds for ND.

    My advice: Stop going to those places and join a club.

  5. #5
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    That's a weird deal there Dom. I agree with the overall policy of open actions for guns you intend to fire on the range. Lots of morons at public ranges. The problem is getting the idea across to everyone else that your holstered weapon is different and you don't intend to shoot it. Not sure how you do that with OC.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    I always have a pistol fully loaded when I go to Whistling Pines. Their rules are in a case or in a holster, and that makes perfect sense. However, it's a private club, not public range. When I'm done at the lane shooting my carry pistol, I reload it and chamber a round then put it back in the holster to leave. The others that I've shot go into my range bag, unloaded. They don't want guns taken away from the firing line unless holstered/cased and that's a good policy. Dragon Man doesn't want you taking the guns inside, period. His business, his right.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    I noticed that sign a few weeks back, too. I thought it was kinda odd.

    The family shooting center (that name always makes me laugh) in Cherry Creek Park has a similar rule. All firearms must be in a case, unloaded, when either approaching or leaving a window.

    BTW, did you notice that the Firing Line has increased their rates and not updated the website? When I looked at their site, it said $10 for visitors, but when I got there, it was $12. My first thought was, "Wow, Denver really is going after firearm owners with taxes." But when I left, I looked around and noticed that they increased their rates.

  8. #8
    Regular Member entartet17's Avatar
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    Wow, I've never had any problems at Firing Line. I've OCed in their store and they never said anything. A couple of the younger guys who they hired just recently though have given me trouble (probably the person that gave you trouble) but never about OC.
    "There are those who still think they are holding the pass against a revolution that may be coming up the road. But they are gazing in the wrong direction. The revolution is behind them. It went by in the Night of Depression, singing songs of freedom" -- Garet Garrett, The Revolution Was (1938)

  9. #9
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    I went to Firing Line only twice in my time in the Denver area: once to buy my wife-to-be a holster for her Bersa .380, which wasn't easy to find locally, and once again to buy some .45LC cowboy loads when I had bought out Gunsport in Boulder and the Bass Pro didn't have any in stock. In no case would I have wanted them to be a first choice, just an "only choice."

    Both times, I was bothered by that sign on the door and the arrogance of the people working the counter, as I perceived it. They seemed to think that everyone coming through the door was some gangbanger here to use the public range to practice a drive-by, and that obviously bothers me a good deal. I don't have a problem with safety, but I think they completely destroy their intentions of safety if they insist a loaded gun be unholstered and cleared in a crowded store, when it can be left untouched and pointed at the ground instead. Gunsport has a much better policy: guns must be unloaded and opened, or unloaded and cased, or in a holster and not touched.

  10. #10
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    Personally, I have a problem with firing ranges having rules that I would not condone elsewhere. The argument that firing ranges have some real idiots visit them is a poor argument because these same idiots visit other places and is the basis for these other places to disallow gun carry of any nature, for which this same crowd will scream discrimination.

    A firing range should bea 2A establishment in every way. How can we condemn those who disallow carry in their establishments when we allow gun ranges and gun stores to do so?

    I have no problem with a "keep it holstered in a carry holster or have an open action" rule, but not a pure open action rule. In other words, having an open action rule with an exception for those weapons being carried holstered on the person for personal protection, which must remain holstered at all times (unless needed for defense of course). This is not a hard set of rules and it meets both purposes.

    Personally, I would have asked to speak to the owner/manager about the issue then if he upheld the rule, I would have walked out and notified everyone I could about the policy. I would not treat them any different than any other establishment that did not allow the carry of firearms, including adding them to the RMGO list of businesses that do not allow carry.

    Just my opinion.

    Doc

  11. #11
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    DOM,



    Firing Line sucks!!! I am a former member who had the same treatment from the owner. They also let the last members shooterslane go to a potential sale and left me hanging and then did nothing when I told them there were two punk kids waving their guns around and shooting sideways!!!!!!! I quit and joined Cherry Creek Gun club. (not Family Fun Center) I will not go back.

    RUM



  12. #12
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    If I win the powerball (cough cough cold day in hell), I'll buy a old 500 acre ranch and make it the OCDO range and training center...
    Shoothouses, Hogans Alley, etc. Hell, I'll even have a 2K range for you .50 BMG guys!! Hmmm...might have to buy more acerage for that...heh.....

  13. #13
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    Firing Line sucks!!! I am a former member who had the same treatment from the owner. They also let the last members shooters lane go to a potential sale and left me hanging and then did nothing when I told them there were two punk kids waving their guns around and shooting sideways!!!!!!! I quit and joined Cherry Creek Gun club. (not Family Fun Center) I will not go back.
    Thanks, I was thinking about becoming a "member" of the Firing Line before this incident. I've been thinking about a GC, but Aurora GC,which is fairly close, seems full. I looked at CGCG and the thing is it's in Denver :?, and a bit expensive. I've never been there though, are the facilities nice?

    If I win the powerball (cough cough cold day in hell), I'll buy a old 500 acre ranch and make it the OCDO range and training center... Shoothouses, Hogans Alley, etc. Hell, I'll even have a 2K range for you .50 BMG guys!! Hmmm...might have to buy more acerage for that...heh.....
    Sounds like a plan! I've always wanted to shoot an M82 at long distance (I've never shot far enough to worry about wind and coriolis force). Hurry up and win that powerball so you can buy a range and the M82 .

  14. #14
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    I would ask for the owners contact information to verify this ONE GUYS version of their policy and ask what the owner thinks just to verify opies "thoughts".

    If the owner is onboard with opie then make sure to let him know you WILL be going elsewhere as well as making sure to let ALL OTHERS know to NOT go there as well as they are not comfortable with proper gun carrying.

    I can see the point that idiots visit gun shops and ranges BUT victimless crimes are ******** POINT BLANK. If you do nothing wrong then leave him alone, now if you shot someone or pulled it out then arrest them BUT to assume ALL people with oc'ed guns MIGHT be an issue is crap.

  15. #15
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    Dom,

    Check into Ben Lomond GC. It's a bit of a hike (east of Kiowa) but in the three trips that Alex and I took, the membership paid for itself compared to Cherry Creek FSC.

    www.blgc.org

    My latest and greatest (?) videos were shot there.

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