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Thread: My First LEO Encounter

  1. #1
    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    I wasat a Fourth of July community gathering in Snoqualmie.

    So, the first guy comes up and asked me why I'm open carrying. I told him I had many reasons, but one was to educate others as to the legality of open carry in Washington State, and offered him a pamphlet which he refused.Then he shows me his ID (sorry, I didn't note which department),and says he knows it's my right, but I shouldn't do it around kids, and that I was not prepared for a gun grab.

    He says, "I could have taken your gun from you, and put a bullet in your head just now."

    I asked, "Do I need to worry about that from you?" No answer. I asked again. Still no answer. I didn't have my recorder on, because the were in off- duty.

    The discussion went on for ten more minutes, and he was joined by his LEO friend. Neither one of them wanted a pamphlet from me. I don't think I changed their minds, but about twenty people around us heard the discussion, and saw me asserting my rights unashamedly. I enjoyed that!

    I love the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the United States of America! Happy Fourth of July everyone!

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    What kind of holster do youuse? I was worried about catching flack for mine because i used the molded plastic one that came with my xd-40

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    You should have had your recorder on. Once he showed you his officer credentials he was acting in official capacity and it was not a private conversation.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    "I want your name and your badge number so I can file a complaint"

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    complaint about what? He was never asked for ID and was obviously not detained.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    On the 4th of July no less!

    Wow! Well done!
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    joeroket wrote:
    complaint about what? He was never asked for ID and was obviously not detained.
    Well, first the idiot cop threated to take his gun and shoot him in the head. But I think the bigger question is what law restricts the carry of a firearm around kids? Surely not part of the Second Amendment or the Washington State Constitution or any other Washington State law.

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    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    joeroket wrote:
    complaint about what? He was never asked for ID and was obviously not detained.
    Well, first the idiot cop threated to take his gun and shoot him in the head. But I think the bigger question is what law restricts the carry of a firearm around kids? Surely not part of the Second Amendment or the Washington State Constitution or any other Washington State law.
    I didn't see it as a threat at all, he was merely giving him his opinion onn what could possibly happen, and it doesn't sound like the officer told him it was illegal.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    joeroket wrote:
    complaint about what? He was never asked for ID and was obviously not detained.
    Our 1st Amendment right to petition for redress of grievances is not limited to violations of the law or PD policy and procedure. If it were, the government could just legislate us into a corner and we've have nothing to complain about.

    We don't know for which department the officer works, thus no complaint is really possible--no recipient. As an exercise,I would like to suggest possible points that could be complainedabout:

    1) The false acknowledgement of a right. The officer said he knows its a right but then tells you why you shouldn't exercise it.The instant he added the "but" it proved he didn'tpersonally recognize your right. It didn't matter what came after the "but".He literally does not respect the right. A government agent tried to persuadethe OPnot toexercise a right.

    2) The kids? What's the deal with that? Are they deliberatelytrying to train childrento fear legitimate means of self-defense? I'll bet cops don't hide their guns around their own kids. Or is it something worse? Does he fear violence towards the children?Such implied latent criminality is a smear I would not bear.

    3) Gun grab?How did he know the OC'er was not prepared? Had no retention on the holster? I very much liked the OP's response to that one.



    Separately, I'll bet that cop would be on-duty real quick if he thought you were doing something actionable.

    I'm suspicious of the badge-flash. Not only is it possible hereally was off-duty. I'd take even odds the real reason he said "off-duty"was that he was out of his jurisdiction.

    Also, why flash a badge at all? Think about it. What possible motive had he for doing that? Heseems to have only usedit togive theweight of authority to hiscriticisms.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    joeroket wrote:
    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    joeroket wrote:
    complaint about what? He was never asked for ID and was obviously not detained.
    Well, first the idiot cop threated to take his gun and shoot him in the head. But I think the bigger question is what law restricts the carry of a firearm around kids? Surely not part of the Second Amendment or the Washington State Constitution or any other Washington State law.
    I didn't see it as a threat at all, he was merely giving him his opinion onn what could possibly happen, and it doesn't sound like the officer told him it was illegal.
    Agreed. Just because someone says they could have done something doesn't make it a threat. If he would have said, "Im going to" instead of "I could have" etc... then yeah, a threat. But theres been times where I have seen things such as a car running with an open door and the driver away and Ive made the comment "Jeez, I could just jump into that car and drive off with it."

    Doesnt mean Im threatening to steal a car.

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    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    To answer a couple of questions, I was never asked for ID; I was never told it was illegal to open carry; I was never detained.

    I didn't like LEO1 taking the pamphlet from me and throwing it on the ground. I didn't like LEO1's comment about being able to grab my gun and put a bullet in my head. I thought those two things were unprofessional.

    LEO2 and I parted amicably.

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    ...and children aren't worth protecting?

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    Ajetpilot wrote:
    I didn't like LEO1 taking the pamphlet from me and throwing it on the ground.

    He littered?

  14. #14
    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    Ohio Patriot wrote:
    Ajetpilot wrote:
    I didn't like LEO1 taking the pamphlet from me and throwing it on the ground.

    He littered?
    Yup.

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    Ohio Patriot wrote:
    Ajetpilot wrote:
    I didn't like LEO1 taking the pamphlet from me and throwing it on the ground.
    He littered?
    If he breathed, he was polluting, too.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen wrote:
    If he breathed, he was polluting, too.
    Yes and the best way to reduce dangerous CO2 emissions would be for all liberals to hold their breaths for about thirty minutes. Problem solved.

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    irfner wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    If he breathed, he was polluting, too.
    Yes and the best way to reduce dangerous CO2 emissions would be for all liberals to hold their breaths for about thirty minutes. Problem solved.
    Wow, what an ignorant statement.
    "Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world." ~ Musashi

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    gsx1138 wrote:
    irfner wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    If he breathed, he was polluting, too.
    Yes and the best way to reduce dangerous CO2 emissions would be for all liberals to hold their breaths for about thirty minutes. Problem solved.
    Wow, what an ignorant statement.
    Before an argument starts, maybe we can all agree that RKBA is important and let it go at that.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Ajetpilot wrote:
    He says, "I could have taken your gun from you, and put a bullet in your head just now."
    So what are you advocating officer, the forced disarmament of all open carry (including police officers)?
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    The Second Amendment 'shall not be infringed' by requirements of reasonableness and safety, both the purview of only tyrants. Safety is a tyrant's tool because no one can be against safety.

    Gun-grabbers are gun grabbers, whether they do it from behind or from behind their badges.

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    "I could have taken your gun from you, and put a bullet in your head just now."
    "Do I need to worry about that from you?" No answer. I asked again.

    "Did you just threaten me?"

    "911 operator, what's your emergency?"

    "Operator, my name is Ajetpilot, and I'm at the Snoqualmie 4th of July celebration, and a man is threatening to take my gun and shoot me. He may or may not have a badge, but he's in civilian clothes. He's 5'9", 180 pounds, wearing a blue..."

    That would get him explaining his conduct in a rapid fashion.


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    Thundar wrote:
    Ajetpilot wrote:
    He says, "I could have taken your gun from you, and put a bullet in your head just now."
    So what are you advocating officer, the forced disarmament of all open carry (including police officers)?
    You might add to the disarming, "the murder of themat that point without due process of law." To me that's a threat and at the very least a totally inappropriate statement from any LEO, on or off duty after the badge flash.

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    First, the remark about all liberals holding their breaths to stop CO2 emissions was for all time. Well said

    As to the part of this thread about LEO1 threatening to shoot you, you could well have reported him immediately to 911. The guy threatened to kill you; that is harassment under RCW 9A.46.020. It wouldn't have mattered what jurisdiction he was from, or even that he was an LEO. That was a threat of deadly force and was unlawful on its face. Theguy should be behind bars right now. Here's the RCW:


    [/b](1) A person is guilty of harassment if:

    (a) Without lawful authority, the person knowingly threatens:

    (i) To cause bodily injury immediately or in the future to the person threatened or to any other person; or


    (ii) To cause physical damage to the property of a person other than the actor; or

    (iii) To subject the person threatened or any other person to physical confinement or restraint; or

    (iv) Maliciously to do any other act which is intended to substantially harm the person threatened or another with respect to his or her physical or mental health or safety; and

    (b) The person by words or conduct places the person threatened in reasonable fear that the threat will be carried out. "Words or conduct" includes, in addition to any other form of communication or conduct, the sending of an electronic communication.

    (2)(a) Except as provided in (b) of this subsection, a person who harasses another is guilty of a gross misdemeanor.

    (b) A person who harasses another is guilty of a class C felony if either of the following applies: (i) The person has previously been convicted in this or any other state of any crime of harassment, as defined in RCW 9A.46.060, of the same victim or members of the victim's family or household or any person specifically named in a no-contact or no-harassment order; or (ii) the person harasses another person under subsection (1)(a)(i) of this section by threatening to kill the person threatened or any other person.

    (3) The penalties provided in this section for harassment do not preclude the victim from seeking any other remedy otherwise available under law.

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    I didn't get that the badge-flasher was threatening the OP.

    I take it as a statement along the lines of, "What you are doing is dangerous. I could have grabbed your gun and shot you. That's how dangerous it is."

    Separately, I recommend against SCOTTNH's suggestion above about twisting the intention of the statement and then involving 911.

    Keep it honest and straight. One need not rely on deception. Nor involve 911 with what is really a false-alarm call.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen wrote:
    I didn't get that the badge-flasher was threatening the OP.

    I take it as a statement along the lines of, "What you are doing is dangerous. I could have grabbed your gun and shot you. That's how dangerous it is."

    Separately, I recommend against SCOTTNH's suggestion above about twisting the intention of the statement and then involving 911.

    Keep it honest and straight. One need not rely on deception. Nor involve 911 with what is really a false-alarm call.
    When LEO1 flashed the badge he was under the color of law and any threat or even telling the OP to not carry is a violate of US Title 18.

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