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Thread: Living in TN, Can I open carry in VA?

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    I live in TN, only about 3 mins from VA state line. I often go to VA to shop, play lottery etc.. I don't have a permit to carry in TN because the minimum age here is 21. I am 18 years old with a wife and daugther and with the way the world is going today I would feel much more comfortable carrying. When I turn 21 I will get my permit in TN.

    The question I have to ask is,

    Can I open carry or carry concealed in VA without a permit at the age 18? Is there any special laws etc that I must follow if I do?

    Thank you for your time, I look forward to hearing your responses.

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    Campaign Veteran Dutch Uncle's Avatar
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    Sir,
    You may not carry concealed here unless you are 21 and have a permit that has reciprocity with VA. In the interim, over 18, you are PERFECTLY within the law to carry openly, except in schools, courthouses/jails and churches during services. You may get inquiries from the police beause of your age, but once establishing you're an adult, you should have no problem. Enjoy your time in the Old Dominion!



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    Dutch Uncle wrote:
    Sir,
    You may not carry concealed here unless you are 21 and have a permit that has reciprocity with VA. In the interim, over 18, you are PERFECTLY within the law to carry openly, except in schools, courthouses/jails and churches during services. You may get inquiries from the police beause of your age, but once establishing you're an adult, you should have no problem. Enjoy your time in the Old Dominion!

    I assmue when you say "over 18" that means person(s) 18 years of age, and older? I have a glock 27 sub compact and a nice leather holster that fits on my belt. Sorry for asking again, I would just like to double/triple check the laws before I go and open carry. I don't want to get in trouble.

    Thank you sir

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    ksalyers wrote:
    Dutch Uncle wrote:
    Sir,
    You may not carry concealed here unless you are 21 and have a permit that has reciprocity with VA. In the interim, over 18, you are PERFECTLY within the law to carry openly, except in schools, courthouses/jails and churches during services. You may get inquiries from the police beause of your age, but once establishing you're an adult, you should have no problem. Enjoy your time in the Old Dominion!

    I assmue when you say "over 18" that means person(s) 18 years of age, and older? I have a glock 27 sub compact and a nice leather holster that fits on my belt. Sorry for asking again, I would just like to double/triple check the laws before I go and open carry. I don't want to get in trouble.

    Thank you sir
    18yrs and 1 second is over 18. (actually, if you were born at 11:59PM, you could technically open carry at 18yrs - almost 24 hours, because legally you're "18" at 12:00 AM on the day 18 years from the day you were born...
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    roscoe13 wrote:
    ksalyers wrote:
    Dutch Uncle wrote:
    Sir,
    You may not carry concealed here unless you are 21 and have a permit that has reciprocity with VA. In the interim, over 18, you are PERFECTLY within the law to carry openly, except in schools, courthouses/jails and churches during services. You may get inquiries from the police beause of your age, but once establishing you're an adult, you should have no problem. Enjoy your time in the Old Dominion!

    I assmue when you say "over 18" that means person(s) 18 years of age, and older? I have a glock 27 sub compact and a nice leather holster that fits on my belt. Sorry for asking again, I would just like to double/triple check the laws before I go and open carry. I don't want to get in trouble.

    Thank you sir
    18yrs and 1 second is over 18. (actually, if you were born at 11:59PM, you could technically open carry at 18yrs - almost 24 hours, because legally you're "18" at 12:00 AM on the day 18 years from the day you were born...
    lol, thanks for clearing it up!

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    ksalyers wrote:
    SNIP Is there any special laws etc that I must follow if I do?

    Thank you for your time, I look forward to hearing your responses.
    Welcome to OCDO!!!

    Wise, very wise to ask about the law. Its always smart to know what rules you have to follow.

    However, there is another side to it that is just as important--the rules the other team has to follow. You wouldn't play poker or polo without knowing the rules the otherside has to follow would you?

    Although Virginiaseems mostly safe for OC, there are pockets of police disagreement that crop up from time to time. Even as recently as this year.

    Sometimes that pocket of disagreement is limited to the front seat ofone patrol car.

    With that in mind, the least you want to know are your rights, so you can protect yourself if you have a negative police encounter by politely, non-physically, verbally asserting your rights. Below are some standard phrases.

    I am not a lawyer.

    "Officer, I know you are just doing your job, but:

    • I do not consent to this encounter.
    • Why I am I being detained?
    • I do not consent to any searches or seizures.
    • I will not be answering any questions without my attorney.
    • I do not consent to showing you my ID, but I will comply with your demand. (Just in case there is a local ordinance requiring you show it. If you find out later there isn't, you can attack his extra-legal ID demand in a complaint.)
    • I do not consent to seizing my gun.
    • Am I free to go?"
    Expect to get sneaky questions designed to get you to then waive your rights. A favorite is something along the lines of, "If you have nothing to hide, why do refuse consent?" Its sneaky because it contains the false premises that only crooks exercise their rights, and that your rights are based on having something to hide. You could just politely say, "Rights don't require justification, Officer. That's why they're called rights." Or, if you want to stay on the straight line of defense you could just say, "Officer, I've already said I won't be answering any questions without my attorney."

    You can learn more here:

    http://tinyurl.com/2sb2ho Video on YouTube, Busted, by http://www.flexyourrights.org

    http://tinyurl.com/4f6uh8 Video at Regent Law, Talking to Police, by Prof. James Duane.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen wrote:
    ksalyers wrote:
    SNIP Is there any special laws etc that I must follow if I do?

    Thank you for your time, I look forward to hearing your responses.
    Welcome to OCDO!!!

    Wise, very wise to ask about the law. Its always smart to know what rules you have to follow.

    However, there is another side to it that is just as important--the rules the other team has to follow. You wouldn't play poker or polo without knowing the rules the otherside has to follow would you?

    Although Virginiaseems mostly safe for OC, there are pockets of police disagreement that crop up from time to time. Even as recently as this year.

    Sometimes that pocket of disagreement is limited to the front seat ofone patrol car.

    With that in mind, the least you want to know are your rights, so you can protect yourself if you have a negative police encounter by politely, non-physically, verbally asserting your rights. Below are some standard phrases.

    I am not a lawyer.

    "Officer, I know you are just doing your job, but:
    • I do not consent to this encounter.
    • Why I am I being detained?
    • I do not consent to any searches or seizures.
    • I will not be answering any questions without my attorney.
    • I do not consent to showing you my ID, but I will comply with your demand. (Just in case there is a local ordinance requiring you show it. If you find out later there isn't, you can attack his extra-legal ID demand in a complaint.)
    • I do not consent to seizing my gun.
    • Am I free to go?"
    Expect to get sneaky questions designed to get you to then waive your rights. A favorite is something along the lines of, "If you have nothing to hide, why do refuse consent?" Its sneaky because it contains the false premises that only crooks exercise their rights, and that your rights are based on having something to hide. You could just politely say, "Rights don't require justification, Officer. That's why they're called rights." Or, if you want to stay on the straight line of defense you could just say, "Officer, I've already said I won't be answering any questions without my attorney."

    You can learn more here:

    http://tinyurl.com/2sb2ho Video on YouTube, Busted, by http://www.flexyourrights.org

    http://tinyurl.com/4f6uh8 Video at Regent Law, Talking to Police, by Prof. James Duane.
    Thank you very much, your post was very helpful. If anyone else has anything to add, please do.

    Thanks again

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    ksalyers wrote:
    Thank you very much, your post was very helpful. If anyone else has anything to add, please do.

    Thanks again
    Not all cops are out to screw you. I may strike up a conversation while we are in line at Wendys.

    I assure you it is to do nothing more than let you know cops are citizens too and break up the wait time to order my food.

    If you start spouting all that "stuff" you were told above.. I am going to think you are a nut job.

    Be sure you know WHENto start pulling those out of your hat.

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    ksalyers wrote:
    Thank you very much, your post was very helpful. If anyone else has anything to add, please do.

    Thanks again
    Not all cops are out to screw you. I may strike up a conversation while we are in line at Wendys.

    I assure you it is to do nothing more than let you know cops are citizens too and break up the wait time to order my food.

    If you start spouting all that "stuff" you were told above.. I am going to think you are a nut job.

    Be sure you know WHENto start pulling those out of your hat.
    Ksalyers,

    The black boldfacedprint in the quote just above is a perfect example of what I was talking about with regard to police trying to get you towaive your rights. Your rights are not dependent on whether an LEO likes how and when you exercise them, nor what he thinks about you for exercising them. Also, there is no requirement that you can only exercise your rights only if everybody else does, too. Just because lots of other people don't know and don't exercise their rights, does not mean you shouldn't or can't.

    If you were rude in rebuffing a friendly conversation or hello, that would be one thing. If you are polite, with no trace of hostility in your tone, you are beyond legitimate reproach in this republic. Do let me emphasize that the possible reproach is only a social point, not legal. Not one of your rights depends on being polite. Rights are senior to politeness.

    Also, a genuinely professional LEO who genuinely respects rights and considers them important cannot by definitionthink less of you for exercising them. Conversely, if he thinks less of you for politely exercising your rights, his professionalism is open to question.

    Understand that anytimeyou are approached by an LEO you are in legal jeopardy. It may be slight, it may be strong. But the jeopardy is present. This assumes youare not in car wreck and need life-savingfirst aid, or did not call them yourselfto report a crime. But even these latter exclusionsare not totally free of legal jeopardy.Even in these cases,if the LEO sees somethinghe thinks is illegal, even if you didn't know it was illegal, he may still take enforcement action.

    The above quoted post does contain some truth. Not all police are out to screw you. Unfortunately, even a good cop who is not out to screw you may ruin your day.See the examples given in Professor Duane's video.

    The italicized text in the above post is camoflaged falsehood. It is exactly backwards. You do not need to be sureor know when to start exercising your rights. Your rights are always applicable. What you might care to decide, totally at your own discretion,is whetherit isrelatively un-dangerous tonot exercisethem.

    To summarize, not all police encountersare negative. Not all cops are bad, out to harass you.

    You may,totally at your owndiscretion, judge or decidewhether to exercise more, fewer, or none of your rights during an encounter with a police officer. Maybe you want to try for a warning instead of a ticket during a traffic stop. Maybe you have an appointment for which you don't want to be late. We all have to make our own decision based on the totality of the circumstances at that time.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Dutch Uncle wrote:
    ....and churches during services....(without sufficient reason)
    I have sufficient reason in a church as I read this story: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,316322,00.html



    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

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    ed wrote:
    Dutch Uncle wrote:
    ....and churches during services....(without sufficient reason)
    I have sufficient reason in a church as I read this story: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,316322,00.html
    Good point.

    We have a new guy. We're trying to get him briefed on the main stuff at the outset.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    ksalyers wrote:
    Thank you very much, your post was very helpful. If anyone else has anything to add, please do.

    Thanks again
    Not all cops are out to screw you. I may strike up a conversation while we are in line at Wendys.

    I assure you it is to do nothing more than let you know cops are citizens too and break up the wait time to order my food.

    If you start spouting all that "stuff" you were told above.. I am going to think you are a nut job.

    Be sure you know WHENto start pulling those out of your hat.
    Ksalyers,

    The black boldfacedprint in the quote just above is a perfect example of what I was talking about with regard to police trying to get you towaive your rights. Your rights are not dependent on whether an LEO likes how and when you exercise them, nor what he thinks about you for exercising them. Also, there is no requirement that you can only exercise your rights only if everybody else does, too. Just because lots of other people don't know and don't exercise their rights, does not mean you shouldn't or can't.

    ....snipped
    Um... I was talking about chit-chatting in line waiting to eat. If someone starts off with "I do not consent to this encounter." I am going to have a big laugh!

    It really has nothing to do with "police trying to get you towaive your rights" Only here.... have I seen so many people twist words.

    And as I said.. Just be sure to know WHEN to use those lines.. At no time did I make an attempt to have himNEVER use them.

    Citizen... you truly need to lighten up. You are working far too hard at your attempt to indoctrinate the new guy.

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    Thanks everyone for all the good info, please post anything else you can to help me out. I plan to carry a gun for the rest of my life to protect myself and my family as long as the law lets me.

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    ksalyers wrote:
    Thank you very much, your post was very helpful. If anyone else has anything to add, please do.

    Thanks again
    Not all cops are out to screw you. I may strike up a conversation while we are in line at Wendys.

    I assure you it is to do nothing more than let you know cops are citizens too and break up the wait time to order my food.

    If you start spouting all that "stuff" you were told above.. I am going to think you are a nut job.

    Be sure you know WHENto start pulling those out of your hat.
    Ksalyers,

    The black boldfacedprint in the quote just above is a perfect example of what I was talking about with regard to police trying to get you towaive your rights. Your rights are not dependent on whether an LEO likes how and when you exercise them, nor what he thinks about you for exercising them. Also, there is no requirement that you can only exercise your rights only if everybody else does, too. Just because lots of other people don't know and don't exercise their rights, does not mean you shouldn't or can't.

    ....snipped
    Um... I was talking about chit-chatting in line waiting to eat. If someone starts off with "I do not consent to this encounter." I am going to have a big laugh!

    It really has nothing to do with "police trying to get you towaive your rights" Only here.... have I seen so many people twist words.

    And as I said.. Just be sure to know WHEN to use those lines.. At no time did I make an attempt to have himNEVER use them.

    Citizen... you truly need to lighten up. You are working far too hard at your attempt to indoctrinate the new guy.
    Ksalyers,

    LEO229's response can be instructive. Its getting a bit off the line of introducing you to the various importances connected to OC. But, lets use the opportunity.

    He misses the point when objecting to my comment about police trying to get you to waive your rights. My point was that his example, talking in line at Wendy's, is a perfect example of an LEO getting you to waive your rights. In his Wendy's example, he is using the idea that you would be open to rejection or ridicule for exercising your rights in such a situation.LEO rejection or ridicule is subordinate to your rights.

    Rights is the subject I am trying to convey. The two most important aspects in this context is that 1) they exist, and 2) they depend on nothing--period.

    Noticein the next line that an LEO is again, despite my earlier post, advising you exactly backwards. You never have to know whento exercise your rights. They are always available to exercise without any dependency on anything whatsoever.They depend on nothing. As I mentioned earlier, you may care to decide, at your own discretion, whether it is relatively un-dangerous to not exercise them.Take note of thisLEO attitude toward rights.

    Definitely take notice of the LEO attitude toward rights embodied in this next quote:


    Citizen... you truly need to lighten up. You are working far too hard at your attempt to indoctrinate the new guy. (smiley omitted).

    This LEO is not quite accusing me ofeducating someone on their rights. Certainly I am being criticized for it. And that spendingsome time at a computerdoing it is working far too hard. Too hardan investment for what return? Ensuring thatanotherperson knows where the police boundaries are and how toprotect himself? That isn't something worth spending time on?

    This isthe way some LEO's think about rights.They have apossibleconflict of interest. So, be careful listening to LEO advice about exercising your rights. I'm not saying ignore it. Weigh it carefully.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    If I could find a genewho could grant me three wishes....



    The first would be....."I wish Citizen to have a sense of humor!"

    My second would be"I wish they would repeal the 1986 machine gun ban!"

    My last would be "I wish for three more wishes!"

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    SNIP Ladies and gentlemen..... I didsusgest him to lighten up.... but he went off the deep end!!

    If I could find a genewho could grant me three wishes....



    The first would be....."I wish Citizen to have a sense of humor!"

    My second would be"I wish they would repeal the 1986 machine gun ban!"

    My last would be "I wish for three more wishes!"
    Ksalyers,

    Please notice an LEO, rather than take the time to discuss rights and rebut perceived errors in my postings, is resorting to commenting on me personally.

    This is a mild form of ad hominem attack. Attacking the man, rather than his reasoning. As a general thing, ad hominem attacks areintended to discredit the man and thereby subvertacceptance ofthe information he presents. Compare this to the subject under discussion--rights.

    It is an ancient ploy. It relies on an assumption that the listener is somewhatunintelligent and won't notice the switch.

    The particular version quoted above is even using humor to cloakitself.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    I need a Gene!!

    Searching Craig's List now!!



  18. #18
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Citizen wrote:

    I am not a lawyer.

    "Officer, I know you are just doing your job, but:
    • I do not consent to this encounter.
    • Why I am I being detained?
    • I do not consent to any searches or seizures.
    • I will not be answering any questions without my attorney.
    • I do not consent to showing you my ID, but I will comply with your demand. (Just in case there is a local ordinance requiring you show it. If you find out later there isn't, you can attack his extra-legal ID demand in a complaint.)
    • I do not consent to seizing my gun.
    • Am I free to go?"
    Citizen, I like your list, but do you know of any state or local law that requires the production of I.D. except for licensed activity (drivers license when driving, CHP when CC, etc.) Are there any out there?
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Thundar wrote:
    Citizen, I like your list, but do you know of any state or local law that requires the production of I.D. except for licensed activity (drivers license when driving, CHP when CC, etc.) Are there any out there?
    There is no VA state law requiring you to carry ID, much less produce it on LEO demand.*

    We have some information that Newport News,Chesapeake, or Hampton has a local ordinance requiring either verbal identification or actual ID document, I forget which.

    Although they often involve the same documents,a demand for proof of license is different than an ID demand.

    There may be other local ordinances in the state.

    Of course, exhibiting adriver's license when driving or a CHP when CCing are required.



    *We have information that some, perhaps all, VA LEO's would treat an ID refusal as grounds to arrest forClass 1 and Class 2 misdemeanors under the idea that refusal indicates theperson is likely to disregard the summons and not show up in court.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  20. #20
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    Citizen wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    SNIP Ladies and gentlemen..... I didsusgest him to lighten up.... but he went off the deep end!!

    If I could find a genewho could grant me three wishes....

    [picture omitted]

    The first would be....."I wish Citizen to have a sense of humor!"

    My second would be"I wish they would repeal the 1986 machine gun ban!"

    My last would be "I wish for three more wishes!"
    Ksalyers,

    Please notice an LEO, rather than take the time to discuss rights and rebut perceived errors in my postings, is resorting to commenting on me personally.

    This is a mild form of ad hominem attack. Attacking the man, rather than his reasoning. As a general thing, ad hominem attacks areintended to discredit the man and thereby subvertacceptance ofthe information he presents. Compare this to the subject under discussion--rights.

    It is an ancient ploy. It relies on an assumption that the listener is somewhatunintelligent and won't notice the switch.

    The particular version quoted above is even using humor to cloakitself.
    Here is another tactic that showed up ona different thread:



    LEO 229 wrote: (Posted: Sat Jul 5th, 2008 05:00 pm in HOAs and Guns thread http://tinyurl.com/6p8gkn)
    SNIPI live in a HOA!!

    I did do some black operations and it caused the current HOA president to resign. I had him thinking the board members were all against him in emails. It was great!!

    I hated that *****!!
    (emphasis added)

    Notice the willingness to manipulate someone's thinking.We're not talking about gently manipulating your wife or girlfriend into going out to your favorite restaurant instead of hers here.

    Also, I wonder if the other Board members approved of his misrepresenting their views.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  21. #21
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    Citizen wrote:
    Here is another tactic that showed up ona different thread:

    LEO 229 wrote: (Posted: Sat Jul 5th, 2008 05:00 pm in HOAs and Guns thread http://tinyurl.com/6p8gkn )
    SNIPI live in a HOA!!

    I did do some black operations and it caused the current HOA president to resign. I had him thinking the board members were all against him in emails. It was great!!

    I hated that *****!!
    (emphasis added)

    Notice the willingness to manipulate someone's thinking.We're not talking about gently manipulating your wife or girlfriend into going out to your favorite restaurant instead of hers here.

    Also, I wonder if the other Board members approved of his misrepresenting their views.
    Ahh.. having to repost my post because you have nothing else to say?

    This guy hated me.. more than Citizen does!!

    It was all innocent in the manner it was done.... they unwittingly played the game and it all worked out in the end.

    This guy was a complete schmuck... If only I could tell you the reasons why....

    If we ever meet in person.. please be sure to ask. Only thenwill you understand.

    But then.... I DO have to wonder why you needed to report that in this thread.




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