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Thread: Harrassed and turned away from 4th of July at Gasworks Park in Seattle.

  1. #1
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    My wife and I were just turned away from watching the Lake Union fireworks at Gasworks park. We are both very upset to the fact that we were turned away, but also the manner and 'reasoning for which' we were turned away.

    I am willing to answer questions and give more details. I'm also intending to persue the legality of what just happened....

    It appears that the city has gotten around the state preemption by 'renting' out the park. And the operating company has banned all pets, weapons, BBQ's, alcohol, fireworks, etc. Is that legal? Can a company rent exclusive use of a public park?

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    quentusrex wrote:
    My wife and I were just turned away from watching the Lake Union fireworks at Gasworks park. We are both very upset to the fact that we were turned away, but also the manner and 'reasoning for which' we were turned away.

    I am willing to answer questions and give more details. I'm also intending to persue the legality of what just happened....

    It appears that the city has gotten around the state preemption by 'renting' out the park. And the operating company has banned all pets, weapons, BBQ's, alcohol, fireworks, etc. Is that legal? Can a company rent exclusive use of a public park?
    Wow. Don't know about the legality of that but if it turns out there are legal issues call Randy Loun. I'll PM you his phone number. He is a heck of a lawyer and may be able to help you.

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    Regular Member Washintonian_For_Liberty's Avatar
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    It is so weird you mention that... my wife and I were just thinking of going to Gasworks park to watch the fireworks. Now I don't know where to go.

    What they did isn't legal. What they've done is essentially broken the law and told you "What you gonna do about it?!" I don't think they expect you'll challenge them.

    We must stop these people from taking our Liberty.... because that's what it's about. It's not just about firearms with these people.... I've just read all the laws concerning fireworks.... I can't believe all the fireworks that are illegal.... who do these people think they are? This is starting to become like Stalinist Russia....


    Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. ~ George Washington

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    Unfortunately it sounds like what they did was legal. PNWSA vs Sequim as well as the fact that they are not a government entity gives them the power to exclude firearms.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    But can a government entity take government land, and rent it out exclusively? And can the operator then set policies that the local government could not enact?

    If this is true, then what would stop the Seattle Mayor from 'renting' out all public venues to private operators on the condition that they use their private property authority to set policies that the venue otherwise couldn't set?

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    quentusrex wrote:
    But can a government entity take government land, and rent it out exclusively? And can the operator then set policies that the local government could not enact?

    If this is true, then what would stop the Seattle Mayor from 'renting' out all public venues to private operators on the condition that they use their private property authority to set policies that the venue otherwise couldn't set?
    This is exactly what they have done with the stadiums and why they prevent the carrying of firearms at the stadiums, even though taxpayers payed(are paying?) for them.

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    Nebulis01 wrote:
    quentusrex wrote:
    But can a government entity take government land, and rent it out exclusively? And can the operator then set policies that the local government could not enact?

    If this is true, then what would stop the Seattle Mayor from 'renting' out all public venues to private operators on the condition that they use their private property authority to set policies that the venue otherwise couldn't set?
    This is exactly what they have done with the stadiums and why they prevent the carrying of firearms at the stadiums, even though taxpayers payed(are paying?) for them.
    The question is whether the permit for the fireworks include the park orwas the permitjust for the barge to launch the fireworks out on the lake? If the park wasn't included, then this was illegal as all hell.

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    quentusrex wrote:
    But can a government entity take government land, and rent it out exclusively? And can the operator then set policies that the local government could not enact?

    If this is true, then what would stop the Seattle Mayor from 'renting' out all public venues to private operators on the condition that they use their private property authority to set policies that the venue otherwise couldn't set?
    This is exactly what the PNWSA vs Sequim was all about. It was about the city putting massive restrictions on the gun show that PNWSA was holding via the contract that was entered between the two. Thats just one piece of the puzzle. Once the contract is entered into the private org that is renting the city property has control over it during the contract time. They can have all the restrictions that they want to and keep people from entering or tell them to leave for violating them.

    As crappy as it is that is the way it is.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    joeroket wrote:
    quentusrex wrote:
    But can a government entity take government land, and rent it out exclusively? And can the operator then set policies that the local government could not enact?

    If this is true, then what would stop the Seattle Mayor from 'renting' out all public venues to private operators on the condition that they use their private property authority to set policies that the venue otherwise couldn't set?
    This is exactly what the PNWSA vs Sequim was all about. It was about the city putting massive restrictions on the gun show that PNWSA was holding via the contract that was entered between the two. Thats just one piece of the puzzle. Once the contract is entered into the private org that is renting the city property has control over it during the contract time. They can have all the restrictions that they want to and keep people from entering or tell them to leave for violating them.

    As crappy as it is that is the way it is.
    I see what they are trying to get at, but isn't this just a de facto illegal anti gun law since it is required by the government agency that actually owns the property. If the organization that leases the property opts to ban guns , thats fine, but the government requirement is in fact a government requirement and is illegal under the state preemption law. The case should have been appealed higher up. I don't think the State Supreme Court would up hold this one.

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    I may have mi-spoken a little on this Bear. I think you are correct that it would be an illegal restriction if the restriction is written into the contract that no firearms shall be allowed because that would apply to the general public. The PNWSA ruling majority was upheld because the restrictions of firearms were on PNWSA and were not applied to the general public.

    Like you said if it was a restriction placed on the public by the renter of the property then that would be a whole different story because they get to treat it as private property during the time that they are renting the property.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    You'd be damn sure there would be a lawsuit if the sign/restrictions said "no blacks allowed" or "no political speech allowed"

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    Makes me want to put a sign on my front door that says, "No firearms allowed"

    Then people walk in and see my entire family carrying.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    So we need to rent it for a big event and put up a "no liberals or bed-wetters over 12 allowed" sign. We'll see how they like it.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Or perhaps a sign thet reads "Open Carry Required".

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    irfner wrote:
    Or perhaps a sign thet reads "Open Carry Required".
    If we did that then it would you can be sure they would consider it an organized group of armed men. :X
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Open Carry Accepted ?

    Open Carry Approved ?

    Open Carry Encouraged ?

  17. #17
    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    Open Carry Welcomed.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
    KF7GEA

  18. #18
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    Open Carry Prefered

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    Open carry. Violators will be shot.

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    just_a_car wrote:
    Open Carry Welcomed.
    I like this one. It is much more friendly and inviting.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    They do open carry events over here in va, theres dinners a couple times a month and the vcdl puts on events and bbqs.

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    quentusrex wrote:
    My wife and I were just turned away from watching the Lake Union fireworks at Gasworks park. We are both very upset to the fact that we were turned away, but also the manner and 'reasoning for which' we were turned away.

    I am willing to answer questions and give more details. I'm also intending to persue the legality of what just happened....

    It appears that the city has gotten around the state preemption by 'renting' out the park. And the operating company has banned all pets, weapons, BBQ's, alcohol, fireworks, etc. Is that legal? Can a company rent exclusive use of a public park?
    Sometimes entering concealed and later discreetly transitioning, without any gun handling, to open carry, has its advantages, including forcing the folks breaking the law by enforcing an illegal gun ban to more visibly document their action in a way that is more painful to them at the time and later.

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    quentusrex wrote:
    My wife and I were just turned away from watching the Lake Union fireworks at Gasworks park. We are both very upset to the fact that we were turned away, but also the manner and 'reasoning for which' we were turned away.

    I am willing to answer questions and give more details. I'm also intending to persue the legality of what just happened....

    It appears that the city has gotten around the state preemption by 'renting' out the park. And the operating company has banned all pets, weapons, BBQ's, alcohol, fireworks, etc. Is that legal? Can a company rent exclusive use of a public park?
    I went to Gasworks on Friday night with my wife.

    I just so happened to be concealed carrying because I was wearing a jacket as I did not know how cold it was going to get.

    I saw the no weapons sign but I was not about to walk the 3 miles back to my car, and they were only checking people with bags.

    In fact it may have been illegal though because of the "live outdoor music"



  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran Right Wing Wacko's Avatar
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    RCW 70.108.020 Definitions.

    For the purposes of this chapter the following words and phrases shall have the indicated meanings:

    (1) "Outdoor music festival" or "music festival" or "festival" means an assembly of persons gathered primarily for outdoor, live or recorded musical entertainment, where the predicted attendance is two thousand persons or more and where the duration of the program is five hours or longer: PROVIDED, That this definition shall not be applied to any regularly established permanent place of worship, stadium, athletic field, arena, auditorium, coliseum, or other similar permanently established places of assembly for assemblies which do not exceed by more than two hundred fifty people the maximum seating capacity of the structure where the assembly is held: PROVIDED, FURTHER, That this definition shall not apply to government sponsored fairs held on regularly established fairgrounds nor to assemblies required to be licensed under other laws or regulations of the state.

    Five hours of Music and Fireworks would indeed be a show worth watching!

  25. #25
    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    I had no problems at the Tacoma waterfront Freedom Fest or Tall Ships. Got a dirty look from one officer but all the others just ignored me.

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