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Harrassed and turned away from 4th of July at Gasworks Park in Seattle.

Mike

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quentusrex wrote:
My wife and I were just turned away from watching the Lake Union fireworks at Gasworks park. We are both very upset to the fact that we were turned away, but also the manner and 'reasoning for which' we were turned away.

I am willing to answer questions and give more details. I'm also intending to persue the legality of what just happened....

It appears that the city has gotten around the state preemption by 'renting' out the park. And the operating company has banned all pets, weapons, BBQ's, alcohol, fireworks, etc. Is that legal? Can a company rent exclusive use of a public park?
Sometimes entering concealed and later discreetly transitioning, without any gun handling, to open carry, has its advantages, including forcing the folks breaking the law by enforcing an illegal gun ban to more visibly document their action in a way that is more painful to them at the time and later.
 

RiverTMasco

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quentusrex wrote:
My wife and I were just turned away from watching the Lake Union fireworks at Gasworks park. We are both very upset to the fact that we were turned away, but also the manner and 'reasoning for which' we were turned away.

I am willing to answer questions and give more details. I'm also intending to persue the legality of what just happened....

It appears that the city has gotten around the state preemption by 'renting' out the park. And the operating company has banned all pets, weapons, BBQ's, alcohol, fireworks, etc. Is that legal? Can a company rent exclusive use of a public park?

I went to Gasworks on Friday night with my wife.

I just so happened to be concealed carrying because I was wearing a jacket as I did not know how cold it was going to get.

I saw the no weapons sign but I was not about to walk the 3 miles back to my car, and they were only checking people with bags.

In fact it may have been illegal though because of the "live outdoor music"
 

Right Wing Wacko

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RCW 70.108.020 Definitions.

For the purposes of this chapter the following words and phrases shall have the indicated meanings:

(1) "Outdoor music festival" or "music festival" or "festival" means an assembly of persons gathered primarily for outdoor, live or recorded musical entertainment, where the predicted attendance is two thousand persons or more and where the duration of the program is five hours or longer: PROVIDED, That this definition shall not be applied to any regularly established permanent place of worship, stadium, athletic field, arena, auditorium, coliseum, or other similar permanently established places of assembly for assemblies which do not exceed by more than two hundred fifty people the maximum seating capacity of the structure where the assembly is held: PROVIDED, FURTHER, That this definition shall not apply to government sponsored fairs held on regularly established fairgrounds nor to assemblies required to be licensed under other laws or regulations of the state.


Five hours of Music and Fireworks would indeed be a show worth watching!
 

compmanio365

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Mainsail wrote:
I had no problems at the Tacoma waterfront Freedom Fest or Tall Ships. Got a dirty look from one officer but all the others just ignored me.

Was down at the Freedom Fair from 12:30 - 3:00, man there was a ton of PD out there; WSP/PCSD/TPD all combined. I had no issues either, no dirty looks really either......one WSP officer decided to walk over (I was thinking "oh boy") and stand by me for about 2 minutes.....didn't say a word, didn't look at me, but I knew he was standing there for me. I kept an eye on him, and was watching the airshow, and he just moved on, never had an issue.

I had one guy sitting with his kid on the shuttle back to Tacoma Dome Station ask me "Why are you carrying that thing"; I simply said, "Hey, it's the 4th of July.....what better way to exercise my rights?" He seemed to take that in stride, and we talked for a minute or two about DC vs Heller, etc; I gave him a pamphlet and I think the discussion ended pretty well. All in all a good day.....
 

doug23838

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, Virginia, USA
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quentusrex wrote:
It appears that the city has gotten around the state preemption by 'renting' out the park. And the operating company has banned all pets, weapons, BBQ's, alcohol, fireworks, etc. Is that legal? Can a company rent exclusive use of a public park?

I've got the same gripe here in VA. The City of Richmond leases a park to an operator who bans anything and everything.

They couldn't lease/rent the property to someone who would discriminate against, some racial, ethnic, religious group, etc. How can they lease/rent a city park to someone who can "ban" certain items that are otherwise legal?

I should have gone to law school.
 

spike89

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Oct 22, 2007
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So I think this is the form you use to "rent" (reserve) a Seattle park for an event.. http://www.cityofseattle.net/parks/reservations/Docs/usepermit.pdf

Note on the last page the following:
"Laws and Rules: The User shall comply with all state laws, City
ordinances, regulations of the Superintendent of Seattle Parks
and Recreation (Parks) applicable to activities in City parks,

and any lawful order of a Departmental representative made to
prevent injury or damage. No lewd conduct or gambling devices
are permitted on the premises."

And right after that is this gem:

Responsibility: The User assumes responsibility for all
activities it conducts during the event, including but not
limited to, supervision and control to prevent injury or damage;
maintenance of the premises during the use; picking up bottles,
debris and refuse; and providing security to maintain order.

Parks disclaims any liability from, and the User agrees not to
hold Parks liable for, all harm that may arise from the event
authorized by this permit.

Since Seattle parks still has the "no firearms" wording on their signs and assumably in their parks ordinance, no wonder the fireworks people think they can enforce a firearms ban during their event.

But the wording of the application doesn't say anywhere that they can make up their own rules, nor is there any mention of a true landlord/tenant relationship. Perhaps the final documentation that is signed after the event reservation is granted does?

I'm no lawyer, but it seems that public property is public property, and the laws of the state apply. But then again, this is in Seattle, the city that wants to secede from the state.

Edit to add: From what I gather, you get and pay for a "permit" to use the park for an event. It says nothing about entering into a rental or lease agreement. Anybody want to FOIA the documents related to the permits granted for the fireworks at gasworks park?

Also "funny" on the permit app is they give you a fee discount if the event is a 1st amendment protected activity. Then it goes on to say how the city has the right to regulate your pricing if you are selling goods at your event. Classic. They support the 1st Amendment, then proceed directly to the twilight zone.:uhoh:
 

44Brent

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I had no problems at the Tacoma waterfront Freedom Fest or Tall Ships. Got a dirty look from one officer but all the others just ignored me.
Giving dirty looks? The other time we had a wiener roast it was kind of rainy and "ruined" the event. I think we should try again and see if we can get a sunny day for another wiener roast to give this officer a chance to improve his disposition.
 

Mainsail

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44Brent wrote:
I had no problems at the Tacoma waterfront Freedom Fest or Tall Ships. Got a dirty look from one officer but all the others just ignored me.
Giving dirty looks? The other time we had a wiener roast it was kind of rainy and "ruined" the event. I think we should try again and see if we can get a sunny day for another wiener roast to give this officer a chance to improve his disposition.


I have no idea for which department this officer worked. TPD was augmented by officers from several other departments for the festival.

I did hear mention on the scanner that some TPD officers were making triple-time if they normally had weekends off. One officer jokingly told another on the Events channel that he shouldn’t complain at $110 an hour….
 

Morris

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North of Seattlle, South of Canada, Washington, US
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TPD solicited cops from all over the state to work the event. Tacoma, like everyone, is short bodies in general and in particular, the holiday/summer season. But at $45 an hour for three hours, it wasn't worth it (would have eaten a chunk of that just for gas to get there).

The most anyone can make in the state is double time but with some high ranks, that could equate to some good money. But anyone from outside TPD wasn't necessarily getting that.
 
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