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Thread: Detained on the 4th of July

  1. #1
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    Well it happened. I had a bad...almost really bad encounter with law enforcement for open carrying. I'm still kinda shocked that it happened, and I'm at a complete loss as to what to do. I know a LOT needs to be done, but I haven't a clue where to start. So first things first, I'm letting you guys know what happened.

    I live in North Carolina. I intended to go to the City of New Bern to watch the local Marine Band play in the park before the fireworks. I went through the State statutes and City ordinances again and again making sure that carrying, especially openly, was legal at that event, in that park. It was. It is. I am sure of it, beyond a shadow of a doubt in my mind.

    So I got out of my car and started walking down the public sidewalk towards the park. The park was surrounded with orange plastic fences, and the two entry points had police patting down bags to check for "contraband", which I later found out was mainly booze and bombs. I happened to be walking by the New Bern Police Departments mobile command center, and I didn't get 30 feet from my car before a female officer saw my sidearm, got the attention of one, Lt. Matthews, and yelled "sir, excuse me!"

    I turned around, smiled, and lifted my sunglasses so they could see my eyes. We met on the sidewalk, Lt. Matthews standing slightly above me on a grass hill....

    Me: Whats up?

    Matthews: Well, uh, can I see some credentials?!

    Me: Umm no? I don't have any.

    Matthews: You don't have an ID?

    Me: I do..whats the problem?

    Matthews: You have a gun and you're headed towards a public gathering!

    Me: Yes sir, I know. It's perfectly legal.

    Matthews: NO IT'S NOT! This is a public gathering, you're NOT bringing that gun in there.

    Me: Ok sir, if I may? I understand that this is not a usual sight around here, so I took the time to carefully review the state and city laws before I came out here to make sure there wouldn't be any problems.

    Matthews: yeah, uh huh (with this "I don't care" look on his face)

    Me: And I confirmed that there is no city ordinance that restricts carrying to an event like this.

    Matthews: Ok, look, hey, look. I'm all for the 2nd amendment and whatever too, bud, but you're NOT bringing a gun in there. It is NOT allowed..

    Me: Ok, sir, that surprises me since there is no law that says that.

    Matthews: what?! There..

    Me: Sir, I'm just curious if you could let me know what law you're referring to?

    Matthews: I'm not gonna sit here and argue with you about which law.

    Me: Oh I'm not arguing sir, I'd just be very interested to know what ordinance you're referring to.

    Matthews: I don't know the ordinances off the top of my head. Ok, I need to see your I.D.

    Me: Um ok well am I being detained?

    Matthews: I'm conducting an investigation! Let me see your I.D.

    Me: Well, sir, unless I'm being detained I'd rather not.

    Matthews: Oh, you wanna play this game. Ya know you're impeding an investigation if you don't show me your I.D.??

    Me: No. Sir, if you aredetaining me and havereasonable suspicion to do so, I would be more than happy to provide my I.D.

    Matthews:Look you're NOT...Hey! Sergeant Brown! (at this point he's yelling across the street as people walk by) This guy thinks he's gonna carry this gun into the park! And he's refusing to identify himself!

    Sgt. Brown: Oh really??

    Me: Hi, Sergeant, right?

    Brown: Yeah

    Me: Ok, I was just explain to...is it Officer? Oh, ok Lt. Matthews here that I took the time to read any pertenant laws before coming out here this evening, and I verified that there's nothing illegal about me being armed in the park.

    Brown: Lets see some I.D.

    Me: Sergeant, am I being detained? (the Lt. is huffing and puffing at this point)

    Brown: Yeah, you are!

    Me: Wow, well what law am I breaking?

    Brown: wuh...You're going into a public gathering with a gun!

    Me: Sergeant, I'm on a public sidewalk at the moment, and there isn't a city ordinance that says going to the event is illegal.

    Brown: It's state law! You know, there's a law called "going armed to the terror of the people", and that's what you're doing.

    Me: Actually Sergeant, that old law has quite a few requirements, none of which I'm currently meeting. I'm not being threatening to anyone, and..

    Brown: Well all right, you want to refuse to identify yourself. You know, I don't know who you could be. You could be a convicted felon for all I know.

    Me: You're absolutely right!

    Brown: So ok if you don't want to cooperate, I guess we can just go talk to the magistrate about you obstructing justice.

    Me: Sergeant, you and I both know that reasonable articulable suspicion is required to detain someone, so are you saying you have reasonable suspicion that a crime is being committed?

    Brown: Yeah! You're about to go into a crowd of people with a gun!

    Me: That's not a crime, Sergeant.

    Brown: Look, you've got two choices right now. Either you go secure your firearm and provide some I.D., or we can go chat with the magistrate.

    Me: Ok, I'll tell you what Sergeant, I will go secure my firearm momentarily. Now that I've agreed to that, can I ask you a question?

    Brown: what?!

    Me: Well I took my time and searched the laws thoroughly. Is there honestly a law that you're aware of that..

    Brown: What..are you a lawyer?

    Me: Nope, I'm a mechanic.

    Brown: Ok, but you think you're gonna sit here and argue law in the middle of the sidewalk with a cop?

    Me: No..

    Brown: Well that's what you're doing. You're trying to be a lawyer.

    Me: No sir, I'm just trying to protect myself.

    Brown: (he gets into my face now) Look, I could take that gun away from you right now. You know that? I can, legally. You know that? I could arrest you right now. Now either secure the firearm or I'll just ask you to leave. This is a public gathering, so I can do that, too. Ya know what? Hey Lt! This gentleman is just going to leave.

    Me: Well Sergeant, I just agreed to secure my firearm, that's not a problem. I'd like to attend the event.

    Brown: Fine, well...

    Me: I'd just like to verify that you, Sergeant Brown, and Lt. Matthews here are ordering me to disarm or leave without a law to back it up, correct?

    Brown: I uh wuh?! Look, either secure the firearm, leave, or we'll go see the magistrate. You've got about 5 seconds. (he looks at his watch)

    Me: Ok, I'll take that as a yes. I'll go secure my firearm!

    I walked away with my girlfriend as a few of the cops that had gathered around kept their distance but followed me to my car. As I walked, I used my phone to voice record the names of the two LEO's, since I'm horrible with remembering names. I then secured my SW99 in the glove box of my car, slid my P3AT into my pocket, and made my way back to the park without any further problems.

    So yeah, the dialogue I just provided is NOT verbatim. It's as well as I can recall the situation, and I made sure to include the key statements that everyone made. I'll admit I sound a lot more confident reading it then I did when I was saying it. My girlfriend said my voice was a little shaky, but damnit I was scared! I'll admit that!

    I'm kicking myself now for not buying and having a voice recorder with me, but I honestly didn't think I'd need it. Earlier just this year I carried all over this same town, in the same park, while one of the biggest celebrations of the year, Mum Fest,went on. The whole downtown area of New Bern is blocked off and filled with booths and vendors and food and what have you. I openly carried the entire day, past New Bern cops, even had a brief conversation with one about where the shuttle stopped. I was SURE they had their duck's in a row. I was terribly wrong.

    So now I'm back at home. We left after about 30 minutes...we just didn't feel like being there after that happened. We got some dinner at one of our favorite restaurants, then headed home. I'm still just...flustered about the whole thing.

    So yeah, what do I do now? Write letters? To who? The Chief of Police? Anyone else?

    If you care, this is the ONLY semi-applicable New Bern ordinance:
    Sec. 50-32. Possession of firearms prohibited.

    It shall be unlawful for any person to possess any firearm within a recreational structure owned by the city, whether or not the same shall be concealed; provided, however, this prohibition shall not apply to sworn law enforcement officers who are permitted by law to carry firearms.

    (Ord. No. 1996-63, § 1, 9-24-96)
    Obviously this refers to recreational structures and nothing else. The park is not included. The only NC law that comes close is this:

    § 14‑277.2. Weapons at parades, etc., prohibited.

    (a) It shall be unlawful for any person participating in, affiliated with, or present as a spectator at any parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration upon any private health care facility or upon any public place owned or under the control of the State or any of its political subdivisions to willfully or intentionally possess or have immediate access to any dangerous weapon. Violation of this subsection shall be a Class 1 misdemeanor. It shall be presumed that any rifle or gun carried on a rack in a pickup truck at a holiday parade or in a funeral procession does not violate the terms of this act.
    This statute is often incorrectly referred to as the "public gathering" law. As you can see, however, it only specifically prohibits carrying in parades, funeral processions, picket lines, and demonstrations.

    Ok guys, I'm sorry this post was so long, but I had to get it all off my chest...so there ya go!

  2. #2
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    Agreed.... I see nothing in the law you provided that would have prohibited you from going to the park armed. The law appears to be for a specific set of circumstances.

    If you feel that strongly about it.. I would suggest you contact their IA department and ask them to clarify the existence of any law and report the situation.

    If you ever have such an encounter again... just ask each for a business card or to write down their name. Most departments will require them to honor the request.

    The department wants you to know who you may be talking about when making good and bad comments about an officer.

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    Agreed.... I see nothing in the law you provided that would have prohibited you from going to the park armed. The law appears to be for a specific set of circumstances.

    If you feel that strongly about it.. I would suggest you contact their IA department and ask them to clarify the existence of any law and report the situation.

    If you ever have such an encounter... just ask each for a business card or to write down their name. Most departments will require them to honor the request.

    The department wants you to know who you may be talking about when making good and bad comments about an officer.
    Well after the 5 second warning I wasn't going to try to ask for a business card. I got their names and ranks. That should be enough. For what it's worth, after I posted this I, yet again, searched all over state and local laws. There's nothing. I wasn't breaking any laws. THEY were. I'm dumb-founded.

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    Wow, I'm sorry to hear it happened this way for you today. Kudos to how you handled it! Can't blame you for stopping short of earning a trip to a magistrate, but I also wonder what might have happened if you did - since hopefully at that point the law as written would come to light and you'd be cleared.

    Thoughts on some things to do:

    . As soon as possible, file FOIA requests for recordings of all communications and written reports having to do with your incident.

    . Call an attorney, because here's what appears to be a situation where the police are disregarding the law (i.e. lack of ordinance prohibiting what you were trying to do). Seems like it'll take some legal help to straighten things out.
    . Contact GRNC and/or VCDL for much more learned advice than this! :what:

    Last, for public gatherings, there's also N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-269.3, having to do with events where admission is charged. Add that to § 14‑277.2 as you quoted. I agree for that event as you describe in New Bern, neither appears to apply.


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    It sounds like they are trying to apply a law that does not fit. I have no idea if it was done to bully or with the best of intentions.

    In any case... contact the department and ask. I would hold back your reason for needing to know. If you find there is no such law and you were legit..... file your complaint so the department can be educated.

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    xdfan wrote:
    Snipped......

    . As soon as possible, file FOIA requests for recordings of all communications and written reports having to do with your incident.

    .....snipped
    This will probably be a waist of time.... They were not dispatched and there are no notes or reports to be taken.

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    I'd still do a FOIA request anyway. The sooner the better. If there's nothing, fine. If there's something pertinent, it will have been worthwhile.

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    Last, for public gatherings, there's also N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-269.3, having to do with events where admission is charged. Add that to § 14‑277.2 as you quoted. I agree for that event as you describe in New Bern, neither appears to apply.
    Yeah, no admission charged there! And obviously there was no alcohol served lol.
    It sounds like they are trying to apply a law that does not fit. I have no idea if it was done to bully or with the best of intentions.

    In any case... contact the department and ask. I would hold back your reason for needing to know. If you find there is no such law and you were legit..... file your complaint so the department can be educated.
    This is what I was thinking would be my first step. Get a couple of people to verify that there's no applicable law, then go to the department with that absolutely confirmed information.

    I guess this is the time I would speak up again and remind people that most cops are not thrilled with the open carry laws and will do anything to deprive you of the privilege. Some of you will once again disagree with myestimate of "most cops".

    I would be going directly to the chief and ask him personally what laws his officers felt they were enforcing. And if you have the money, I would take an attorney with me.


    Sheriff, I agree with you about a number of cops not wanting people to carry. The bottom line, however, is that it's none of their business, not their problem, and their opinion means jack. Their job is to do only one thing. Enforce the written law. If it's not written, they shouldn't be enforcing.

    As far as getting a lawyer involved, there's NO way that's going to happen from a monetary stand-point. If anybody knows of a lawyer that's chomping at the bit to take a case like this pro bono, lemme know! lol
    .


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    xdfan wrote:
    I'd still do a FOIA request anyway. The sooner the better. If there's nothing, fine. If there's something pertinent, it will have been worthwhile.
    Honestly, I doubt there's anything to acquire either. The radios weren't utilized, and they didn't even get my first name, so there's not a lot they could report.

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    Sheriff wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    ...I would suggest you contact their IA department....
    It's a citywith apopulation of 27,000. I doubt they have an Internal Affairs Division yet.

    OK... ask the Chief then

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    DreQuo,

    Formal complaint.

    Obivous points:

    • Illegal detention.
    • Taking enforcement action when they didn't know there was a law against it.
    • Misapplication of the law they did use.
    • Unlawful ID demand (if it was a demand, which should be able to stick because it was included as a condition of being dragged to the magistrate, and if it was unlawful--You will want to check that point in case it was illegal for you to refuse in that precise jurisdiction.)
    • Deprivation of rights--forced to disarm.
    • Intimidation with threat of false arrest.



    Do take the time to go over it again and again in your mind. You'll find more and more little details come to the surface. Some may be important.



    WELL DONE!!

    Heh, heh, heh. "Are you a lawyer?" "No, I'ma mechanic." Hahhahahahahaha! That was great!

    I also like the way you took his refusal to answer as a yes. No need to wait around for someone who isn't going to answer. Steal his answer out from under him.

    Mental note to self: If a cop says "Or we're going to see the magistrate", try to get him to admit whether he is actually threatening an arrest. In the meantime, just assume he is.

    Don't be too hard on yourself for not having a voice-recorder. You have your witness. Also,I wouldn'tthink they'd get fired over any of this. So, just the fact thatthere is a complaint in theirpersonnel files, andhaving toendureaninternal affairs investigation, will make them think twice about repeating the performance. Wordwill get around the department.



    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Sheriff wrote:
    DreQo wrote:
    As far as getting a lawyer involved, there's NO way that's going to happen from a monetary stand-point.
    OK, in that case, go directly to the city attorney for New Bern, North Carolina.

    Ask him what laws the police department was enforcing.

    (I assume they have a full time city attorney)

    Not sure how this would contribute to a complaint. This isn't a criticism of the suggestion. I'm just not able to see how it would contribute to the complaint process.

    DreQuo can make a formal complaint. He can copy the City Attorney as an advice that police are acting arbitrarily and could involve the city in a lawsuit.

    Also, to first ask the CA would then involve him in having to go ask the police what they were doing, just to find out what law they thought they were enforcing, when we already know they were only enforcing their personal opinion against a peaceable citizen in a crowd.

    By the way, DreQuo, the fact that they did not disarm you for officer safety proves two things:

    1) They knew you were not dangerous to them. Since it was a declared detention, Terry vs Ohio permits an officer to temporarily seize your weapon if he has reason to believe you are both armed and presently dangerous.

    2) They couldn't possibly have believed you were dangerous to the crowd.

    Edited to Add: I missed some of the preceding posts about there maybe being an applicable law. That will need to get sorted out before making a complaint. Don't want to get cited or arrested for admitting to breaking a law you didn't know about.

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    U.S. CODE > TITLE 42 > CHAPTER 21 > SUBCHAPTER I > § 1983

    § 1983. Civil action for deprivation of rights

    Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer’s judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable. For the purposes of this section, any Act of Congress applicable exclusively to the District of Columbia shall be considered to be a statute of the District of Columbia.



    U.S. CODE > TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 13 > § 242

    § 242. Deprivation of rights under color of law

    Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or to different punishments, pains, or penalties, on account of such person being an alien, or by reason of his color, or race, than are prescribed for the punishment of citizens, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if bodily injury results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.

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    Citizen wrote:
    DreQuo,

    Formal complaint.

    Obivous points:

    • Illegal detention.
    • Taking enforcement action when they didn't know there was a law against it.
    • Misapplication of the law they did use.
    • Unlawful ID demand (if it was a demand, which should be able to stick because it was included as a condition of being dragged to the magistrate, and if it was unlawful--You will want to check that point in case it was illegal for you to refuse in that precise jurisdiction.)
    • Deprivation of rights--forced to disarm.
    • Intimidation with threat of false arrest.


    Do take the time to go over it again and again in your mind. You'll find more and more little details come to the surface. Some may be important.



    WELL DONE!!

    Heh, heh, heh. "Are you a lawyer?" "No, I'ma mechanic." Hahhahahahahaha! That was great!

    I also like the way you took his refusal to answer as a yes. No need to wait around for someone who isn't going to answer. Steal his answer out from under him.

    Mental note to self: If a cop says "Or we're going to see the magistrate", try to get him to admit whether he is actually threatening an arrest. In the meantime, just assume he is.

    Don't be too hard on yourself for not having a voice-recorder. You have your witness. Also,I wouldn'tthink they'd get fired over any of this. So, just the fact thatthere is a complaint in theirpersonnel files, andhaving toendureaninternal affairs investigation, will make them think twice about repeating the performance. Wordwill get around the department.


    They would just claim IGNORANCE which is a LEO's FAVORITE saying. "I can claim Ignorance and Ignorance is NOT an excuse to you as a civi"!!!!

    That's HOW they all will get away from this.

    DreQo, welcome to MY world. You just wasn't lucky enough to stare:what:down the end of a barrel or recieve some nice shiny jewlery:P for a few minutes

    You still a bit behind

    TJ

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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    They would just claim IGNORANCE which is a LEO's FAVORITE saying. "I can claim Ignorance and Ignorance is NOT an excuse to you as a civi"!!!!

    That's HOW they all will get away from this.
    I'll leave my comments to myself regarding the ignorance argument... I believe that I have outspoken myself several times on it.

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    unreconstructed1 wrote:
    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    They would just claim IGNORANCE which is a LEO's FAVORITE saying. "I can claim Ignorance and Ignorance is NOT an excuse to you as a civi"!!!!

    That's HOW they all will get away from this.
    I'll leave my comments to myself regarding the ignorance argument... I believe that I have outspoken myself several times on it.

    I hear what you are saying and agree with you .

    TJ


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    Me: Ok, I'll tell you what Sergeant, I will go secure my firearm momentarily. Now that I've agreed to that, can I ask you a question?

    Just me, I would have told him to arrest me and placed my arms behind my back. Lets go see this magistrate, and afterwards we can go to Federal court and talk about my 42 USC 1983 lawsuit...


    Brown: What..are you a lawyer?

    No, I'm a pro-se litigant.


    Brown: I uh wuh?! Look, either secure the firearm, leave, or we'll go see the magistrate. You've got about 5 seconds. (he looks at his watch

    me: 4,3,2,1...

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    codename_47 wrote:
    Me: Ok, I'll tell you what Sergeant, I will go secure my firearm momentarily. Now that I've agreed to that, can I ask you a question?

    Just me, I would have told him to arrest me and placed my arms behind my back. Lets go see this magistrate, and afterwards we can go to Federal court and talk about my 42 USC 1983 lawsuit...


    Brown: What..are you a lawyer?

    No, I'm a pro-se litigant.


    Brown: I uh wuh?! Look, either secure the firearm, leave, or we'll go see the magistrate. You've got about 5 seconds. (he looks at his watch

    me: 4,3,2,1...
    Yeah, I could have taken it all the way, however I had a talk with my girlfriend on the way there where I promised her that if it came down to either being arrested or complying, I would first get the cop to admit he didn't know what law he was enforcing, then leave. I got what I needed, and didn't upset the girlfriend too much in the process, either.

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    DreQo

    Sorry this happened to you. Just wondering why you didn't have a voice recorder?

    What is the law in N.C. for using voice recorders to record conversations? Not a Monday morning QB, I live in Chesapeake, VAand often go to Moyock, NC. I have researched the NC gun laws, but not the wiretapping/voice recording laws. Have I been breaking any N.C code walking around N.C. with my voice recorder on?
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitableand let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come . PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Somewhere on OCDO is the citation of a special interest site on eavesdropping laws for each state.

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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    They would just claim IGNORANCE which is a LEO's FAVORITE saying. "I can claim Ignorance and Ignorance is NOT an excuse to you as a civi"!!!!
    Yep. And this is why we should always send a certified letter to a PD and SO before open carrying. The letter should explain why OC is legal, and should inform them of the need to educate all their LEOs on this matter.

    Why send the letter?

    If you have proof the PD or SO received the letter, the PD or SO cannot claim that they didn’t know the law.


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    It appears after having read a number of similar negative encounters with LEOs that there is one common thread with all of this

    They are not expecting someone to be reasonably well versed in the laws of the state, so when you hit them with this knowledge, it throws them off a bit. Since they have already opened the dance, they are very reluctant to back out of it and say, "Oh, you're right. We didn't think of that. Please do go on your way and forgive us for impeding your journey.".

    This just ain't going to happen because the LEOs are in over their heads and are not about to back out and admit they were wrong. They are hoping to either trip you up, get you to begin down the path of increasing anger, or intimidate you enough that you will just give in and "obey" their illegal behavior. But there is no way that they are going to lose face and admit they were in the wrong and you are absolutely correct.

    THIS is why they must be called to the carpet whenever they act in such a manner. And called down hard enough that it will not happen again. As I have said before, I fully support law enforcement and appreciate the difficultly of their jobs. But I abhor cops with an attitude and a "holier than thou" approach to the people who own their departments and therefore their jobs! They are there to do our bidding.. not the other way around.

    Sorry. I'll get off of my esoteric high horse and let someone else take a ride.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  23. #23
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Sheriff wrote:
    DreQo wrote:
    As far as getting a lawyer involved, there's NO way that's going to happen from a monetary stand-point.
    OK, in that case, go directly to the city attorney for New Bern, North Carolina.

    Ask him what laws the police department was enforcing.

    (I assume they have a full time city attorney)
    Sheriff is absolutely correct. File a formal complaint against the two cops, who are probably well intentioned, but not very bright--hick town cops, after all. Send a letter to the Chief and let him know you're filing a formal complaint for violation of your constitutional rights under the NC Constitution. I was once asked by a cop if I was a lawyer. When I said yes, his whole attitude changed--nice and friendly as could be. But you shouldn't have to be one to have your rights respected. Yours weren't. You handled the situation very well, now do the same in your follow-up. Good luck!




    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  24. #24
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    The city attorney will be the one who has to defend against a law suit filed against the city or its agency. He is accountable for spending the tax payers' money. He will indeed be interested in a possible law suit--as will the mayor, selectmen--or whatever they call them in NC. And he will be the one to most clearly see no law was violated or about to be violated, hence an actionable violation of a citizen's rights which could incur significant punitive damages. A town of 27,000 doesn't have deep pockets.



    "Not sure how this would contribute to a complaint. This isn't a criticism of the suggestion. I'm just not able to see how it would contribute to the complaint process"
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  25. #25
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    Sheriff wrote:
    I guess this is the time I would speak up again and remind people that most cops are not thrilled with the open carry laws and will do anything to deprive you of the privilege. Some of you will once again disagree with myestimate of "most cops".

    I would be going directly to the chief and ask him personally what laws his officers felt they were enforcing. And if you have the money, I would take an attorney with me.
    I would never disagree with that estimate Sheriff. I work with an ex Norfolk police officer and he told me that some officers, even though they know something is legal, if it is one of there pet peeves they will hassle people about it. I think it just shows how as a society we have let our standards get so low through affimative action and diversity programs, things like this are bound to happen. Also it's striking how the officers responded when he started quoted the law to them asking if he was a lawyer, yet how many times have officers told people "son ignorance of the law is no excuse"

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