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Thread: Going to get another pistol

  1. #1
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    I already have 25 or so pistols, but I'm setting out this week to pick up another. I recenty bought a NIB Springfield XD45 from a friend.(He's got a family and in the Army and needed to unload it to free up some funds). Like I say, NIB, never shot. I like Springfield 1911s and other weapons they make....But, all it took was for me to hold the XD to know that it would'nt be residing in my safe long. (for all of you XD fans, I'm not insulting that particular firearm, it just doesn't fit ME.)

    Now, I am going to trade it in. Looking several practical firearms. (daily use and carry, getting dirty, heavy heavy use) So far I am looking at another Glock, this time 19, 23, or 32. Or another M&P, probably .357sig, or basically anything roughly in that $450-$600 range. Anybody have any suggestions? Ideas?

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Too bad you didn't like the XD, it's reliable and all that crap.

    OH well, I like mine.

    Shoot em all! Let your hand sort em out.

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    I'm not that familiar with a wide range of pistols, but I have a Taurus PT111 Millennium PRO in 9mm, and I like it quite a bit for short range defense.

    I liked it more than the Glock because of it's manual safety switch and SA/DA trigger.

    ...Orygunner...

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    I liked the way the Walther P99 fit in my hand but have not yet shot one. Also, a used Sig P series would be in that price range and I have yet to shoot one that I did not like.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    It's hard to beat a compact-frame GLOCK (19/23/32/38) in whatever caliber you get it in. Accessories, holsters, after-market parts and other toys galore are readily available and inexpensive for the most part. (Try to do a trigger job,extendedmag rel. and slidestopon a 1911 for less than $25--you won't get very far!) For the "fun-factor" look around for a 2nd Gen. G19 9mm (no finger grooves/light rail, just seems to fit hands better), and cheap to feed. For carry/defense a G23 .40 is hard to beat. For something that will make a LOT of noise at the range, a G32 .357SIG is a lot of fun, and if you want something that not a lot of people have, and you're willing to pay the price of admission to shoot the dang thing, the G38 .45GAP has that exclusivity-factor.

    My G23 isn't ever very far from me. 14 rounds of 180-gr. Gold Dot and "reliable-as-hell" can never be a bad combination.

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    apcci2 wrote:
    I already have 25 or so pistols, but I'm setting out this week to pick up another. I recenty bought a NIB Springfield XD45 from a friend.(He's got a family and in the Army and needed to unload it to free up some funds). Like I say, NIB, never shot. I like Springfield 1911s and other weapons they make....But, all it took was for me to hold the XD to know that it would'nt be residing in my safe long. (for all of you XD fans, I'm not insulting that particular firearm, it just doesn't fit ME.)

    Now, I am going to trade it in. Looking several practical firearms. (daily use and carry, getting dirty, heavy heavy use) So far I am looking at another Glock, this time 19, 23, or 32. Or another M&P, probably .357sig, or basically anything roughly in that $450-$600 range. Anybody have any suggestions? Ideas?
    Well, if you have 25 pistols, maybe you could be more detailed as you what you would like, or a role to fill, that you do not get out of your collection. It sounds like you're looking for a hammerless pistol somewhere between the 9mm and the 45. If you do not have a Glock 19 and would like one, I think that should be top of the list; if you like Glocks the 19 is a no-brainer. You like M&Ps, so getting one in a suitable or preferred defense caliber is also logical. You can also try the XDM, which is a more compact design closer to the Glock/M&P lines.

    I tend to be a practical person with regards to expensive things; I buy it if I need it and I can if necessary justify the purchase. I felt I should have a handgun, so I bought my Ruger 9mm, then ammo prices jumped and I bought a .22 for plinking, then I bought a shotgun for those cases around the house when a 9mm doesn't do the job fast enough. So, I only have 3 guns and cannot imagine owning 25 and not having a gun for every occasion. I'm looking for a suitable concealed carry, likely in .45, but believe it or not the P95 conceals under even most of my tucked collared shirts.

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    my $0.02:

    My EDC is a "Baby Eagle" in .45ACP. It's a civilian version of the Isreali Jericho clone of the CZ-75, distributed by Magnum Research; DA/SA, 10-round mag, all metal (a bit of a heavy beast), accurate as hell out of the box. I don't personally run mine into the dirt or anything, but the Isrealis aren't known for tolerating crappy weapons. The biggest downside will be trying to find a good holster for it. You may have to have one custom made, or settle for a generic one like Uncle Mike's.

    edited: A very similar gun is the EAA Witness.

    --RedKnightt--

    Zombie Squad has it right: “We hold fast to the belief that if you are prepared for a scenario where the walking corpses of your family and neighbors are trying to eat you alive, you will be prepared for almost anything.”

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    apcci2 wrote:
    I already have 25 or so pistols, but I'm setting out this week to pick up another. I recenty bought a NIB Springfield XD45 from a friend.(He's got a family and in the Army and needed to unload it to free up some funds). Like I say, NIB, never shot. I like Springfield 1911s and other weapons they make....But, all it took was for me to hold the XD to know that it would'nt be residing in my safe long. (for all of you XD fans, I'm not insulting that particular firearm, it just doesn't fit ME.)

    Now, I am going to trade it in. Looking several practical firearms. (daily use and carry, getting dirty, heavy heavy use) So far I am looking at another Glock, this time 19, 23, or 32. Or another M&P, probably .357sig, or basically anything roughly in that $450-$600 range. Anybody have any suggestions? Ideas?
    XD-4.... wait.. you don't like good handguns :P Go with a Glock 23 then...

    The 19 is probably a better choice, but I like the 23 a lot...

    The XDMs are different as well, you might want to check that out.

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    Regular Member Eeyore's Avatar
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    +1 on the BDE

    If you like Glocks, try the Steyr M-A1. Hard to find, but you might like it better than the Block, and it's definitely "different." http://www.steyrarms.com/index.php?id=195 If it weren't for the grip angle, I'd already own one.
    Guns don't kill people. Drivers on cell phones do.

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    Another option for you, if you like a real shooter's gun, look around for a used Kahr T9. It's a steel framed, single stack 9mm w/a 4" bbl and a short and oh-so-smooth DAO trigger. If it's as accurate (or more so)as the other Kahrs I've shot and owned, it should be a real tack-driver. I've seen them used in the $525-600 range.

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    I drafted the response bellow to a co-worker who was having the glock v. xd debate (with a bit of M&P thrown in):







    "Maybe it’s just me, but I find a guy who has trained thousands of people using thousands of different guns pretty convincing when he says that glock is easily at the top of the reliability heap and everything else is a distant second.(Particularly in 9 mm).



    People who kill people with a pistol for a living every day in faraway lands and have any input in the weapons they field use two pistols- 1911s and glocks. These are people that can have any weapon they want. Some of them belong to units that actually give them 2-3k “stipends” when they are selected for the unit to buy personally owned weapons to be used in combat conditions. Historically, most bought custom 1911s. Today, many simply buy glocks. (EDITED FOR OPEN CARRY TO ADD-I am aware of certain units now being issued glocks).No one buys an xd.



    In fact, some holster makers are making for the Smith and Wesson M& P and not the xd because it is establishing a track record of being a more reliable weapon given its adoption by many more agencies than the xd as a duty weapon. While the fact that the xd is made in Croatia and the SW is made in the US may explain some of it, that fact cannot be considered dispositive as the vast majority of glocks are made in Austria.



    Is the xd a perfectly serviceable weapon relative to a glock–yes

    Is the xd a perfectly accurate weapon relative to a glock-yes

    Is the xd a perfectly concealable weapon relative to a glock –yes



    Is the xd as reliable a weapon relative to a glock- Most in the know would submit- no

    Is the xd as maintainable as a glock in the field should something break-those in the know universally agree-no.



    Indeed , most problems with a glock can be fixed by anyone who can detail strip their weapon ( the only tool required is a 3/32 punch) with commonly available parts that are typically .99 to 7.00. Similar issues with an xd ( and most other platforms) require shipment of the pistol to a warranty station.



    Never is a long time word. The XD will never be as good a platform as the Glock, if you define as good in terms of reliability, sales, market share, ease/ cost of maintenance and availability of aftermarket parts/ accessories to include holsters/ mag pouches in both the duty and concealed configurations."





    Buy the G19. Buy a bunch of mags. Buy a quality holster/belt/mag pouch and light pouch set. Buy a bunch of ammo. Take a few classes to develop or maintain your skill set. Carry it with any quality (Federal, Speer, Remington or Winchester)latest generation of hollowpoint that is reliable in your particular gun. ( I like Speer 124 +p as it feeds in my g19 well) And carry it knowing That there is no other more reliable weapons platform out there (edited to add- it was my intent to convey that ther is nothing more reliable. I was not saying that something may not be as reliable) .





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    I really don't have a "need" or "purpose" for a new pistol. I think I am just addicted to them. Anyway, I picked up my new M4 yesterday, and I am still looking for another addition to the gun safe.

    I'm just kind of "stocking up" I guess. I may keep it for a while. May keep it NIB forever. Or shoot it everyday. Depends on what I find.

    Thanks for the ideas you have given so far.

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Wow, that whole Glock vs. XD thing was purely unsubstantiated opinion.

    Cite your sources.

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    You are right mypost waspure opinion. I do not know WTF I am talking about.



    It is my opinion that:

    1. More holster makers are making for the M & P than the XD in Duty Configurations

    2. That thexd is not as reliable a weapon relative to a glock- given

    a. my personal oberseravtions

    b. the observations shared to me by trainers at Gunsite/TacticalResponse/TridentConcepts and EAG

    c. that the xd is not as maintainable as a glock in the field should something break given 1. the utter lack of availibilty of factory OEM replacementparts relaitve to glock and 2. Springfield's reposne of- if you break it, send it in (though they are very good about sending a shipping label)

    d. most problems with a glock can be fixed by anyone who can detail strip their weapon ( the only tool required is a 3/32 punch) with commonly available parts that are typically .99 to 7.00 (see the websites at brownells/midway usa and omb re list of glock parts). Similar issues with an xd ( and most other platforms) require shipment of the pistol to a warranty station.

    since the XD has been on the market, multiple federal, state and local agencies have purchased weapons/upgraded/switched or are in the process of doing so

    i.e. ICE, Cincinati PD, NMSP, ATF, and Topeka PD (SWAT)(this is not an exaustive list) and none of them have selected an xd, though other foreign owned/manufactured pistols have been selected i.e. glock and hk.



    i suppose it is possible thet the multiple officers attending the Command and General Staff College were lying to me when they told me they were issued glocks given a particular assignment and that cetain special mission unit members were moving away from the 1911 platform and were buying glock instead and/or being issued glock.

    LET ME SAY IT AGAIN


    Never is a long time word. The XD will never be as good a platform as the Glock, if you define as good in terms of reliability (see above), sales (given the time the glock has been on the market relative to the xd- one can infer that glock has sold more pistols. You can also check the atf website), market share( see previous response), ease/ cost of maintenance and availability of aftermarket parts (see above portion of post)/ accessories to include holsters/ mag pouches in both the duty and concealed configurations. (Check any major retailer's website and count the number of items for glock v. xd)





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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Okay, well thank you for reiterating your opinion with more opinion and a lot of heresay. (sp?) I respectfully disagree with many of your points.

    On topic now eh?

    If the Glocks fit your hand go for them. They are reliable as you probably already know.

    They just don't fit MY hand, I'm happy with my XD.

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    More holster makers are making for the M & P than the XD in Duty Configurations
    ( what part of the above is not true?)



    2. That thexd is not as reliable a weapon relative to a glock- given


    a. my personal oberseravtions

    b. the observations shared to me by trainers at Gunsite/TacticalResponse/TridentConcepts and EAG



    ( if you do not believe this statementyou either believe a. I am lying or b. I was lied to. So are you calling me a liar or the trainers in question?)

    Now, I suppose you could say that my observations represent an insufficent sample. Them same could not be ssaid for the trainers in question.




    c. that the xd is not as maintainable as a glock in the field should something break given 1. the utter lack of availibilty of factory OEM replacementparts relaitve to glock and 2. Springfield's reponse of- if you break it, send it in (though they are very good about sending a shipping label)

    (What part of this is not true? Direct us to a source of OEM parts with the same breadth as those sold on behalf of glock that an xd owner can buy and use to maintain his pistol)


    d. most problems with a glock can be fixed by anyone who can detail strip their weapon ( the only tool required is a 3/32 punch) with commonly available parts that are typically .99 to 7.00 (see the websites at brownells/midway usa and omb re list of glock parts). Similar issues with an xd ( and most other platforms) require shipment of the pistol to a warranty station.

    (See above, any problem other than those with the barrel itself, the slide itself, as opposed to the extractor, firing pin etc and the frame itself, as opposed to the trigger, slide release, magazine release, assorted springs etc can be replaced by anyone who can detail strip the weapon.

    since the XD has been on the market, multiple federal, state and local agencies have purchased weapons/upgraded/switched or are in the process of doing so

    i.e. ICE, Cincinati PD, NMSP, ATF, and Topeka PD (SWAT)(this is not an exaustive list) and none of them have selected an xd, though other foreign owned/manufactured pistols have been selected i.e. glock and hk.

    ( Name 10 departments of any size 100+ ,that issue an xd)





    i suppose it is possible thet the multiple officers attending the Command and General Staff College were lying to me when they told me they were issued glocks given a particular assignment and that cetain special mission unit members were moving away from the 1911 platform and were buying glock instead and/or being issued glock.

    ( if you do not believe this statementyou either believe a. I am lying or b. I was lied to. So are you calling me a liar or the Officers in question?)



    Bottom line- tell us where my "opinions" are incorrect?









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    dojpros wrote:
    More holster makers are making for the M & P than the XD in Duty Configurations
    ( what part of the above is not true?)



    2. That thexd is not as reliable a weapon relative to a glock- given


    a. my personal oberseravtions

    b. the observations shared to me by trainers at Gunsite/TacticalResponse/TridentConcepts and EAG



    ( if you do not believe this statementyou either believe a. I am lying or b. I was lied to. So are you calling me a liar or the trainers in question?)

    Now, I suppose you could say that my observations represent an insufficent sample. Them same could not be ssaid for the trainers in question.




    c. that the xd is not as maintainable as a glock in the field should something break given 1. the utter lack of availibilty of factory OEM replacementparts relaitve to glock and 2. Springfield's reponse of- if you break it, send it in (though they are very good about sending a shipping label)

    (What part of this is not true? Direct us to a source of OEM parts with the same breadth as those sold on behalf of glock that an xd owner can buy and use to maintain his pistol)


    d. most problems with a glock can be fixed by anyone who can detail strip their weapon ( the only tool required is a 3/32 punch) with commonly available parts that are typically .99 to 7.00 (see the websites at brownells/midway usa and omb re list of glock parts). Similar issues with an xd ( and most other platforms) require shipment of the pistol to a warranty station.

    (See above, any problem other than those with the barrel itself, the slide itself, as opposed to the extractor, firing pin etc and the frame itself, as opposed to the trigger, slide release, magazine release, assorted springs etc can be replaced by anyone who can detail strip the weapon.

    since the XD has been on the market, multiple federal, state and local agencies have purchased weapons/upgraded/switched or are in the process of doing so

    i.e. ICE, Cincinati PD, NMSP, ATF, and Topeka PD (SWAT)(this is not an exaustive list) and none of them have selected an xd, though other foreign owned/manufactured pistols have been selected i.e. glock and hk.

    ( Name 10 departments of any size 100+ ,that issue an xd)





    i suppose it is possible thet the multiple officers attending the Command and General Staff College were lying to me when they told me they were issued glocks given a particular assignment and that cetain special mission unit members were moving away from the 1911 platform and were buying glock instead and/or being issued glock.

    ( if you do not believe this statementyou either believe a. I am lying or b. I was lied to. So are you calling me a liar or the Officers in question?)



    Bottom line- tell us where my "opinions" are incorrect?







    calm down chief. don't be so hard on the XD fans. Springfield makes a good weapon in the XD, but as with Glocks, they are not for everybody.

    Now, as far as your multiple points about parts and accessories for xds vs glocks,have you considered that glock outnumbers xd in thisbecause, A) they have been around for 20+ years, and B)other manufacturers make weapons that interchange parts with glock.

    Your opinion is what it is. Youmade your point. You don't have to keep making it. Nobody is arguing with you.


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    Well AP

    THX posts-"Wow, that whole Glock vs. XD thing was purely unsubstantiated opinion.

    Cite your sources."



    I guess I get a little testy when a 19 year old who has 1000+ posts on a board he has been a member of for all of three months implies that I am merely spouting opinion and hearsay with regard to a least four absolute truths in my posts

    1. You can't get parts OEM,or otherwise if your break your xd like you can for a glock

    2. Usually, when you break an xd, it is going back to Springfield. When you break a glock, usually, you detail strip, replace the part with a commonly available and cheap OEM part and be up and running in a matter of minutes.

    3. Guys that have been teaching and fighting with a handgunfor longer than thx has been alive view the glock as a far superior fighting platform to an xd.

    4. few, if any, agencies of any size , have adopted the xd to date as a service weapon.

    Buy what you want. Buy an xd. Try and run your slide with less than an optimum gripand see what happens.

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    apcci2 wrote:
    I already have 25 or so pistols, but I'm setting out this week to pick up another. I recenty bought a NIB Springfield XD45 from a friend.(He's got a family and in the Army and needed to unload it to free up some funds). Like I say, NIB, never shot. I like Springfield 1911s and other weapons they make....But, all it took was for me to hold the XD to know that it would'nt be residing in my safe long. (for all of you XD fans, I'm not insulting that particular firearm, it just doesn't fit ME.)

    Now, I am going to trade it in. Looking several practical firearms. (daily use and carry, getting dirty, heavy heavy use) So far I am looking at another Glock, this time 19, 23, or 32. Or another M&P, probably .357sig, or basically anything roughly in that $450-$600 range. Anybody have any suggestions? Ideas?
    Glock19 is the perfect all around gun. You can conceal it and the 9mm is cheap to shoot.

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    dojpros wrote:
    Well AP

    THX posts-"Wow, that whole Glock vs. XD thing was purely unsubstantiated opinion.

    Cite your sources."



    I guess I get a little testy when a 19 year old *who has 1000+ posts on a board he has been a member of for all of three* months implies that I am merely spouting opinion and hearsay with regard to a least four absolute truths in my posts

    1. You can't get parts OEM,*or otherwise if your break your xd like you can for a glock

    2. Usually, when you break an xd, it is going back to Springfield. When you break a glock, usually, you detail strip, replace the part with a commonly available and cheap OEM part and be up and running in a matter of minutes.*

    3. Guys that have been teaching and fighting with a handgun*for longer than thx has been alive view the glock as a far superior fighting platform to an xd.

    4. few, if any, *agencies of any size , have adopted the xd to date as a service weapon.***

    Buy what you want.* Buy an xd.* Try and run your slide with less than an optimum grip*and see what happens.
    What does that mean?

    I'd be worried about my XD breaking too...
    http://springfield-armory.primediaou.../SPstory11.php

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    I'm not going to get into a Glock vs XD ******* match as there is no point in it and I think both are good sidearms, I just personally dislike the ergonomics of Glocks. I will correct a few things though.

    While OEM XD parts are still not released by SA, most of the parts can now be replaced by after market parts. It's taken a few years for demand and sales numbers to get high enough on the XDs to make it worth production to after market manufacturers, but they are now getting up to speed. Most commonly broken parts can be purchased including complete spring kits and striker retention pin as well as sear and trigger bar. I'm sure that in years to come that parts availability with be similar.

    IMO an XD is slightly easier to detail strip than a Glock IMO having done so with both with the same tools one after the other.

    A few years ago, the XD made it to the final round of the Treasury Dpt tests but lost out due to no external safety in the final decision (which was not part of the original requirement) which greatly effected the addition of a manual safety option. Glocks were knocked out 2 rounds earlier due to breakage IIRC in the toss on concrete floor test. Doesn't mean Glocks suck, but does show that XDs can compete head to head. Furthermore, the XDs have been through the same types of torture tests as Glocks and have been just as durable.

    Given the nearly identical platform of the Glock and the XD excepting grip angle, backstrap safety and takedown release, and given that the XD has fully supported chambers in all calibers and given that the feed ramp rests on the XD locking block instead of the mag lip as in the Glock reducing kaBoom! likelihood I'm not seeing how the Glock is some uber better fighting platform. I think it really comes down to personal preference.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    SQL,

    With th xd, if you have less than an optimum grip, you will not fully depress the grip safety.

    If the grip safety is not full depressed, you cannot retract the slide.



    This typically manefests itself if you attempting to manipulate the weapon one handed .

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    DD,

    The largest Treasury component that is armed, IRS-CID went from sig to glock.

    USSS(former Treasury,now DHS) has been withs sigs for a while. ATF (former Treasury,now DOJ) is going from sig to glock.

    If you want to bet your life and fortune on aftermarket ignition parts, you are braver than I.

    The uber pistol fighters of the world don't use xds, they use glocks.

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    dojpros wrote:
    DD,

    The largest Treasury component that is armed, IRS-CID went from sig to glock.

    USSS(former Treasury,now DHS) has been withs sigs for a while. ATF (former Treasury,now DOJ) is going from sig to glock.

    If you want to bet your life and fortune on aftermarket ignition parts, you are braver than I.

    The uber pistol fighters of the world don't use xds, they use glocks.
    We know ATF has been using Glocks for a while as most people have seen the ATF agent shoot himself in the leg (or foot) with one on YouTube.

    I have yet to read of a kaBoom! with an XD. I have yet to read about someone shooting themselves in the leg with an XD (it is called "Glock leg" and not "Sig leg" or "H&K leg" or "1911 leg" even though they have been around longer for a reason). Does that mean that Glocks suck?

    How about a listing of current US Military sidearms according to Wikipedia:

    Sidearms In active service (all branches)
    • M9 (Beretta 92F/FS; Pistol ('Personal Defense Weapon'), 9x19mm Parabellum)
    • M11 (SIG Sauer P228; Pistol, 9x19mm NATO)
    In active service (some branches, secondary or limited roles)
    I think we have some pretty uber pistol fighters in our military and they are using 1911s, H&K and Sigs primarily. Not a single Glock in the list nor XD. Does that mean they both suck and are not worthy of uber fighting status? Should I just put away my XD and only carry my M11?

    There are lots of ways to judge a pistol. I feel 100% confident with my XD and I would fully expect that anyone carrying a Glock would also feel 100% confident in it's ability. I don't have a Glock, although I have shot many of them, because I hate the ergonomics and I also prefer other things about the XD.

    As to aftermarket parts, yeah, from a quality manufaturer with a good history of making quality parts I feel fine with it. There are lots of people who put aftermarket parts in their firearms. Should I feel uncomfortable carrying with a Barsto match barrel because it is aftermarket? That's a pretty important functioning part of a pistol. There are plenty of people who take MIM parts out of less expensive 1911s and replace them with milled parts and they seem to work pretty well. There are tons of aftermarket mag releases for all sorts of guns that people use. That's also a pretty important part considering if your mag falls out or jams in the pistol because of the release in a firefight you are pretty screwed.

    I'm don't want to get this thread all off topic in an XD vs Glock discussion. IMO it is 99% personal preference. The XDs and Glocks are both proven platforms with more similarities than differences. That's all I'm trying to point out. I don't think either one is a bad firearm and I don't think that anyone who honestly looks at both firearms would reach a different conclusion.

    ETA: As to the backstrap safety and slide lock, I have never had any issue with it. I have no problem racking it on my belt with one hand, a drill I do practice. I kind of like the feature actually.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

  25. #25
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    May 2008
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    Dojpros,

    I was never saying that you were stupid, that you were wrong, or anything else.

    I just personally thought that your OPINION, which was stated as FACT, was pretty annoying.

    Also, you responded to my request that you site your sources, with hearsay. Not cites to facts to support your argument, but hearsay.

    And I don't really see the need to bring age into the argument. Everyone who does not agree with me, seems to like to look at my birthday.

    You want to know more about me? Fine. I'll PM you some information. But please don't discredit me just for my age.


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