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Thread: Open Carry Experiences by Persons of Color?

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    Not to open a topic for racial remarks, but given the reality of profiling by LEO, what, if any, have been the experiences of African American or Hispanic open carriers in urban settings? (I am Hispanic )

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    Welcome to OCDO! I'm going to guess that the reactions depend on which urban setting you're in. (Liberal state, normal state, anti-gun city, normal city, etc.)

    You might want to pop into the Virginia forum and read some of the BMWAG (Black Man With A Gun) threads that were posted there last year; seems some members ran into issues.

    In Phoenix, on the other hand, you're probably much less likely to be hassled.

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    I was going to point to those threads as well, the author is danbus.
    But I'm not sure that will answer your question. We've certainly seen all types of folks have LEO issues as well as trouble-free carry days. No one that I know of is keeping any stats. I don't know if danbus got more attention than other OCers in that area or if he just lived by some very hard-headed LEOs.

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    Welcome to OCO, gdr_11!

    Hope you stick around and become a valuable addition to our community! We need all the help we can get in fighting the bone-headed ignorance towards OC'ing.

    mzbk2l wrote:
    You might want to pop into the Virginia forum and read some of the BMWAG (Black Man With A Gun) threads that were posted there last year; seems some members ran into issues.
    Not surprising.... :X

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    He said African American, not black American. I am going to assume he meant a black person in his question.

    Not being a smarta-- but there is a big difference here.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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    Profiling is a reality in car stops. Why would anyone think it wouldn't be alive and well in stopping for OC?
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    He said African American, not black American. I am going to assume he meant a black person in his question.

    Not being a smarta-- but there is a big difference here.
    I was going to say something along those same lines. As in my mind an African American isn't a US citizen yet. A Black American is. I was born here along with my folks,but my grandparents are from Denmark. I'm 100% American with a Danish background.



    Come over to the VA forum and chat with Danbus. He's a good guy. I have met him and he will answer many of you questions.
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    Thanks for the info and comments; I will be reading the posts you referred me to.

    As far as my references, I am indeed referring to Black Americans, it is simply that in the San Francisco area, my colleagues refer to themselves in public as African Americans, just as others use Hispanic, Latino, etc. No disrepect meant.

    On the open carry issue,I used to oc when I was in my 20s in rural Sutter County. I never had a problem, but did not push the envelope and limited it to smaller stores, restaurants, etc. I obtained a ccw permit at 24, then carried that way until I moved to Sacramento with its oppressive gun policies.

    Now approaching 60, I take my hat off to you folks who take the time to learn the law and exercise their rights.

    Well Done!1

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    Bullbuster wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    He said African American, not black American. I am going to assume he meant a black person in his question.

    Not being a smarta-- but there is a big difference here.
    I was going to say something along those same lines. As in my mind an African American isn't a US citizen yet. A Black American is. I was born here along with my folks,but my grandparents are from Denmark. I'm 100% American with a Danish background.



    Come over to the VA forum and chat with Danbus. He's a good guy. I have met him and he will answer many of you questions.
    You got it right. I have known three African-Americans in my life; two were black and one was white. the problem I have with this, or any other qualification nomenclature, is the concept of "hyphenated Americanism". It comes across as someone who has a preferrence for some other allegiance rather than that of being American. It would be the same thing if I called myself an English-Irish-Welch American. I don't because I am native to this land.. I was born here as were a number of my previous ancestors.

    And yes, Danbus is a stand up guy. Not too wild about his BMWAG hat, though I know it is all done tongue in cheek. I prefer to see him as a man who just happens to be black, rather that a black man.

    BTE, I am a Virginian and spend quite a bit of energy on the Virginia forum.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Bullbuster wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    He said African American, not black American. I am going to assume he meant a black person in his question.

    Not being a smarta-- but there is a big difference here.
    I was going to say something along those same lines. As in my mind an African American isn't a US citizen yet. A Black American is. I was born here along with my folks,but my grandparents are from Denmark. I'm 100% American with a Danish background.



    Come over to the VA forum and chat with Danbus. He's a good guy. I have met him and he will answer many of you questions.
    You got it right. I have known three African-Americans in my life; two were black and one was white. the problem I have with this, or any other qualification nomenclature, is the concept of "hyphenated Americanism". It comes across as someone who has a preferrence for some other allegiance rather than that of being American. It would be the same thing if I called myself an English-Irish-Welch American. I don't because I am native to this land.. I was born here as were a number of my previous ancestors.

    And yes, Danbus is a stand up guy. Not too wild about his BMWAG hat, though I know it is all done tongue in cheek. I prefer to see him as a man who just happens to be black, rather that a black man.

    BTE, I am a Virginian and spend quite a bit of energy on the Virginia forum.
    A white guy emmigrating from South Africa or Kenya could call himself an "African American" if he wanted. When my family emmigrated from Germany, some considered them 'German Americans.' The meaning has taken on its own spin over the past 30 years it seems.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Gunslinger wrote:
    A white guy emmigrating from South Africa or Kenya could call himself an "African American" if he wanted. When my family emmigrated from Germany, some considered them 'German Americans.' The meaning has taken on its own spin over the past 30 years it seems.
    I will never forget watching CNN over the riots in France a few years ago.

    The woman on the TV was calling anyone over there that was black an "African American"

    God, come on people.

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    Gunslinger wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Bullbuster wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    He said African American, not black American. I am going to assume he meant a black person in his question.

    Not being a smarta-- but there is a big difference here.
    I was going to say something along those same lines. As in my mind an African American isn't a US citizen yet. A Black American is. I was born here along with my folks,but my grandparents are from Denmark. I'm 100% American with a Danish background.



    Come over to the VA forum and chat with Danbus. He's a good guy. I have met him and he will answer many of you questions.
    You got it right. I have known three African-Americans in my life; two were black and one was white. the problem I have with this, or any other qualification nomenclature, is the concept of "hyphenated Americanism". It comes across as someone who has a preferrence for some other allegiance rather than that of being American. It would be the same thing if I called myself an English-Irish-Welch American. I don't because I am native to this land.. I was born here as were a number of my previous ancestors.

    And yes, Danbus is a stand up guy. Not too wild about his BMWAG hat, though I know it is all done tongue in cheek. I prefer to see him as a man who just happens to be black, rather that a black man.

    BTE, I am a Virginian and spend quite a bit of energy on the Virginia forum.
    A white guy emmigrating from South Africa or Kenya could call himself an "African American" if he wanted. When my family emmigrated from Germany, some considered them 'German Americans.' The meaning has taken on its own spin over the past 30 years it seems.
    Yes he could and in reality, he would be correct since the inferrence is a first generation American. The white "African American" I mentioned that I knew was from South Africa. He and his sister were both natualized Americans. When she was applying for college, she marked the box next to "African American" because she in fact, was. However, college admissions made her change this because she was not black.

    These are our open-minded, diversity wrapped, fuzzy-headed friends. I would say the actions of the admissions department was close-minded and rather discriminatory.

    The quicker we get away from all of this hyphenated Americanism and start thinking of ourselves as just Americans (those of us who are, that is), the better off people will be and less friction will exist. I frankly don't care what color someone is as long as they act normal and American (wow.. bet that will stir up the pot of a few). I was brought up to treat everyone with dignity and respect until they give me reason not to. I still think that is a fine approach when dealing with people.


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Now in all my years OCing I have only been stopped one time by an LEO, and he did not exactly harrass me. I do often CC, but that is a topic for another thread.

    The one time I was stopped was last spring, it is fairly warm in late spring in NC and I did not feel like putting on my jacket to CC, so I went OC. When I got out of my truck a cop walked up and asked to see my permit. Calmly I said I have a CCW permit, but I am open carrying so he does not need to see it. He responded by saying fair enough. Why are you open carrying if you have a CCW?

    Answer? Because I felt like it!

    With a smile he said fair enough. What ya carrying anyway?

    It then turned into a twenty minute discussion, and an eventual friendship.

    As a black man I am used to people crossing the street when they see me, and they cross a bit faster when I am OCing. But it dosent really matter.

    Maybe it is just where I live, because I have been harrassed more by LEOs for the clothes I was wearing, or the way I looked at em in my home state of Iowa than anything else down here in NC.

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    C-D-P wrote:
    Now in all my years OCing I have only been stopped one time by an LEO, and he did not exactly harrass me. I do often CC, but that is a topic for another thread.

    The one time I was stopped was last spring, it is fairly warm in late spring in NC and I did not feel like putting on my jacket to CC, so I went OC. When I got out of my truck a cop walked up and asked to see my permit. Calmly I said I have a CCW permit, but I am open carrying so he does not need to see it. He responded by saying fair enough. Why are you open carrying if you have a CCW?

    Answer? Because I felt like it!

    With a smile he said fair enough. What ya carrying anyway?

    It then turned into a twenty minute discussion, and an eventual friendship.

    As a black man I am used to people crossing the street when they see me, and they cross a bit faster when I am OCing. But it dosent really matter.

    Maybe it is just where I live, because I have been harrassed more by LEOs for the clothes I was wearing, or the way I looked at em in my home state of Iowa than anything else down here in NC.
    Welcome to OCDO! And thank you for you story and honest perspective.


    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Thanks for the info and comments; I will be reading the posts you referred me to.

    As far as my references, I am indeed referring to Black Americans, it is simply that in the San Francisco area, my colleagues refer to themselves in public as African Americans, just as others use Hispanic, Latino, etc. No disrepect meant.
    Yeah, I've never understood this really. What are you supposed to call a black person in europe or canada, African-european, african-canadian? What do you call a black person who is from europe or canada but immigrated to the US, African-european-american? It's insane, why would someone care if they were referred to as black? I don't care if I'm referred to as white, it's simply the color of my skin. I don't call myself european-american.

    I think african american describes someone who has immigrated to the US from africa, independent of skin color. If a white person is born in africa and immigrates to the US, are they not african-american? I mean it sure as heck seems like it to me. I think some people just want to come up with a reason to get insulted and an excuse to get angry over nothing.

    As a child I was used to saying "african-american" because my mom is incredibly liberal and wants everything to be super PC, so she always made me say that. Like if I made the mistake of saying "black person" she would say, "WEAK 9mm!! WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY!?!?"

    So, when I was 16 I was in Canada and I accidentally referred to someone as "african-american." A bunch of @#$%s (All of whom were white) immediately started talking trash to me. They were like, "this isn't the US and he isn't an american, so he's not an african-american you idiot!" I did make the point of saying that the US is not the only country in the americas and that I wasn't calling him african-united-statesian. I mentioned that this is apparently what you're "supposed to say" in the US. The incident did make me think about how odd it really is to require a black person to be called "african american" though.


    Now, I think that it is probably very likely that persons of color would encounter more problems on average than a white person when OCing. This is not a good thing, but I really do believe it would probably be the case in many places. I think it happens with plenty of other things so there's no reason to think it wouldn't happen with OCing firearms too.

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    Weak 9mm wrote:
    Yeah, I've never understood this really. What are you supposed to call a black person in europe or canada, African-european, african-canadian? What do you call a black person who is from europe or canada but immigrated to the US, African-european-american? It's insane, why would someone care if they were referred to as black? I don't care if I'm referred to as white, it's simply the color of my skin. I don't call myself european-american.

    [size=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American#The_term_.22African_American.22][/size]

    [size=][/size]

    [size=This may help you to understand some.

    Me? I am an American that just so happens to be black.
    ][/size]



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    A Black/White/Brown guy with his pants around his rear end, hat turned side ways, will always be profiled.

    And rightfuly so !

    Folks who dress like this represent what is defined as GANGSTA ! Which in return leads to thinking ILLEGAL !



    I work with a Black guy who can open carry without the normal LEO hassle, b/c any one, no matter the color,

    THAT CAN DRESS PROPERLY will make an impression on those who see him/her.

    Jeans/Slacks with a decent shirt tucked in, belt/shoulder holster, this is the way to make an impression.

    Sleeveless t-shirt, basketball shorts with Flip Flops, will more than likely draw attention if your OCing.

    Of course this does depend on WHERE you live.

    In South Louisiana, it's not uncommon to see a guy wearing jeans, untucked camo t-shirt, with a Shoulder Holster OCing.

    In some cities though, this would cause an LEO to approach you.

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    Profiling anyone for any reason other than known activity is wrong.



    Correct wear of clothing is the opinion of the wearer. That does not mean that I like the way kids dress. [size=][/size]

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    CDP, yes I get that much of it. Out of curiosity did you read my whole post? Maybe you did and you just wanted to address that part, but the part you quoted was sort of an intro to the rest of it. I don't think you addressed the actual main point of the post though and you took my statement way too literally.

    The problem I encountered is that in other countries, even canada, this is not a readily accepted term. In fact, people get angry because you're calling them an "american." It's like there's nothing you can do that will please everybody and that's why I said "I don't get it."

    I am not a sheltered person when it comes to other cultures, I went to an all black church for my entire childhood. My step dad and step brothers are black. I mean, I do get the origins of the phrase "african american," I just don't like that I have to call someone of a certain race something different everywhere I go to avoid getting yelled at. I think that's ridiculous. Also, you wont get very far showing me stuff that is Jesse Jackson's doing, lol. I've met him and had to shake his hand because I was with a bunch of people from my church, but I'm not fond of him to be honest.

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    [size=][/size]

    Ok, I must have missed the point of your post. My bad.



    I would suggest that you call them the same thing you would call any Canadian. A Canadian. You cant go wrong that way. But if they are offended, too bad. There is no natural right to not be offended.[size=][/size]

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    I think we could just simplify it by referring to people as pale Americans, jaundiced Americans, sunburned Americans and tanned Americans. Then I can happily ignore crap like skin color issues and the baggage that goes with it for so many people.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    I don't care what you call yourself, IMO If you were born here, than you are an American First.

    American African

    American Mexican

    Whatever ! As long as America is first.

    IMO



    Profiling on the other hand is a very touchy subject.





  23. #23
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    C-D-P wrote:
    Now in all my years OCing I have only been stopped one time by an LEO, and he did not exactly harrass me. I do often CC, but that is a topic for another thread.

    The one time I was stopped was last spring, it is fairly warm in late spring in NC and I did not feel like putting on my jacket to CC, so I went OC. When I got out of my truck a cop walked up and asked to see my permit. Calmly I said I have a CCW permit, but I am open carrying so he does not need to see it. He responded by saying fair enough. Why are you open carrying if you have a CCW?

    Answer? Because I felt like it!

    With a smile he said fair enough. What ya carrying anyway?

    It then turned into a twenty minute discussion, and an eventual friendship.

    As a black man I am used to people crossing the street when they see me, and they cross a bit faster when I am OCing. But it dosent really matter.

    Maybe it is just where I live, because I have been harrassed more by LEOs for the clothes I was wearing, or the way I looked at em in my home state of Iowa than anything else down here in NC.
    You handled yourself well. While I might not have said, "Because I felt like it", preferring something like, "because at this time, open carry met my needs better", all turned out well and you came out fine. Good for you!

    Sorry to hear of your past problems in Iowa. Why do you suppose that was?

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  24. #24
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Weak 9mm wrote:
    Thanks for the info and comments; I will be reading the posts you referred me to.

    As far as my references, I am indeed referring to Black Americans, it is simply that in the San Francisco area, my colleagues refer to themselves in public as African Americans, just as others use Hispanic, Latino, etc. No disrepect meant.
    Yeah, I've never understood this really. What are you supposed to call a black person in europe or canada, African-european, african-canadian? What do you call a black person who is from europe or canada but immigrated to the US, African-european-american? It's insane, why would someone care if they were referred to as black? I don't care if I'm referred to as white, it's simply the color of my skin. I don't call myself european-american.

    I think african american describes someone who has immigrated to the US from africa, independent of skin color. If a white person is born in africa and immigrates to the US, are they not african-american? I mean it sure as heck seems like it to me. I think some people just want to come up with a reason to get insulted and an excuse to get angry over nothing.

    As a child I was used to saying "african-american" because my mom is incredibly liberal and wants everything to be super PC, so she always made me say that. Like if I made the mistake of saying "black person" she would say, "WEAK 9mm!! WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY!?!?"

    So, when I was 16 I was in Canada and I accidentally referred to someone as "african-american." A bunch of @#$%s (All of whom were white) immediately started talking trash to me. They were like, "this isn't the US and he isn't an american, so he's not an african-american you idiot!" I did make the point of saying that the US is not the only country in the americas and that I wasn't calling him african-united-statesian. I mentioned that this is apparently what you're "supposed to say" in the US. The incident did make me think about how odd it really is to require a black person to be called "african american" though.


    Now, I think that it is probably very likely that persons of color would encounter more problems on average than a white person when OCing. This is not a good thing, but I really do believe it would probably be the case in many places. I think it happens with plenty of other things so there's no reason to think it wouldn't happen with OCing firearms too.
    Hope I didn't open a hornet's nest, but your post certainly underlines the problems that can arise when we use the language incorrectly.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  25. #25
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    C-D-P wrote:
    Weak 9mm wrote:
    Yeah, I've never understood this really. What are you supposed to call a black person in europe or canada, African-european, african-canadian? What do you call a black person who is from europe or canada but immigrated to the US, African-european-american? It's insane, why would someone care if they were referred to as black? I don't care if I'm referred to as white, it's simply the color of my skin. I don't call myself european-american.

    [size=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American#The_term_.22African_American.22]

    [size=]

    [size=This may help you to understand some.

    Me? I am an American that just so happens to be black.
    ]

    I have said that s-o-o-o many times. Not about myself since I am not a black man, but about friends and others who just happen to be black. I couldn't agree with you more with your statement. You had no choice in your birth, just like everyone else. The impressions you make, the messages you send out, the opinions other form, are largely based upon your character and demeanor. People soon look past the physical (unless it is really smacking you in the face) and get the the heart of the individual when quality of character is present.

    Welcome aboard from your fine state of North Carolina. I hope you enjoy these forums and find much to learn.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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