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Clothing choices to minimise attention when OC

unreconstructed1

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tattedupboy wrote:
Darn! I guess I just need to go out and purchase myself an entirely new wardrobe if I even want to consider OCing. I guess that my wardrobe, which is mostly baggy clothes (not sagging pants that show my underwear, however) withloose fitting t-shirts, in addition to tattoo covered arms, carrying a full-size Glock 22,is not the image OCers should attempt to portray. Can't have anyone associating the "hip hop" look with OC, now can we?

sounds like you and I are in the same boat Tatted. while I don't dress "hip hop", my tattoos, and my physical appearance gives off what has been described by others who were "concerned that I was giving off the wrong appearence" as Biker, roughneck, redneck and a few other things.

personally, I say wear what you want. either way there will be people that won't accept the fact that you are carrying a gun. If I were looking for social acceptance, I would probably cover up my tattoos, be clean shaven, wear khakis and button up t-shirts ( with sleeves even) and of course, I wouldn't carry a gun.

but I am not looking for social acceptance when I carry, I'm looking for personal defense.
 

tarzan1888

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Task Force 16 wrote:
tarzan1888 wrote:
KAHR54 wrote:
I was at the Mall in the now famous Dickson City, Pa and looking around when I noticed Dickson City Police in uniform with sidearms and a little later I saw two dudes without jackets but wearing dress shirt with tie and slacks and high on hip holsters walking together. I assumed they were security. Maybe not.

My reason for this post is this- If I were dressed in slacks, shirt and tie and OC...would I be less obvious/more accepted than if I were wearing baggy jeans and an old tee-shirt and OC. ??



I'm just a stinkin' factory worker- would me and my Kahr stick out worse than some accountant and his S/W ??

You, sir, are the backbone of America, but, unfortunately, a guy in a white shirt and tie, will not get the un-wanted attention you would get, if you are both open carrying.

Tarzan

Yeah, have you noticed that it doesn't appear to be the "IN" thing these days to have "backbone"?

:(

Or Dirt under your fingernails either....



The less you look like you work for a living the better it is for you.



Tarzan
 

Sonora Rebel

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I dress 'Western'. Not B-movie dude style... but 'Vaquero'. I NEVER wear a straw hat... Straw is stock feed... not hat material. My boots are usually scuffed 'n covered in reddish Hemite dust as is my hat.'Sure sign I'm no 'townie'. My nylon holster 'n gunbelt are clean butwell used... 'n my 1911-A1 bears no fancy grips that scream 'Lookit my gun!' I carry cross-draw so it doesn't interfere with the seatbelt and is accessable (sitting) in my truck. It's also easier to draw than havin' yerpistol gripin yer armpit and requires no tie-down. Sometimes I'll just wear an open 'bucket' on my pants belt 'n drop the pistol in it. Less encumbrance. My fastest rig' of course is the buscadero holster 'n .45 SAA. I can pretty much clear leather... while cocking and put a round out (on target) before ya can blink. Problem is... rapidity of fire and capacity.... plus weight and encumbrance.
 

Liko81

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I think style does in fact make a difference, not just contrast to hide or show off the fact that there's a holstered weapon on your belt.

Consider the following scenario: you're an average sheeple, not a blaring anti, but totally naive as to why anyone other than a police officer or other security-type person would need a gun on his hip.

You're walking around your local mall in an OC-friendly state, and you stop into JC Penney. You're browsing, and notice a clean-shaven young man in his mid-to-late 20's, wearing a buttoned dress shirt and slacks, with a similarly-aged woman holding up a sweater to herself. Your eyes catch the glint of metalat his side,and you realize he's carrying a holstered gun on his hip. You're a little surprised, but the man and his S.O. don't seem to be causing any trouble; in fact they just helped a shorter old lady by taking down a sweater from a higher rack. You decide he must have some sort of government job or some other official reason to carry a gun, and go about your business.

On your way out, you pass in front of the Hot Topic store and notice a young guy in JNCOs and an artfully-torn Marilyn Manson T-shirt, with his girlfriend wearing a fishnettop with what looks like a string bikini under it, and a skirt so low-cut, short-hemmed and tightly-stretchedthat one sneeze and her surprise is out. You almost mistook the guy for the girl at first since the girl has close-cut spikes while the guy has hair down to his shoulder blades. There's metal everywhere on both of them, from the spike rivets in his jeans to her 50 rings and bracelets to his myriad facial piercings, and something at the small of his back... What is that? It's hard to see against his black shirt... oh my goditsaGUN!!! OH MY GOD, CALL 911! THERE'S A GUY WITH A GUN HERE!

This is just a simple and stereotypical example that illustrates that how you look, and therefore your first impression, is everything, especially where guns are concerned. The sad truth is that even most gun owners would be more than slightly uncomfortable at the thought of your stereotypical 20-something goth walking around with a Glock on his belt. The truth may be that that goth kid owns a record label and makes more money in a year than the JC Penney's pair will ever see (thus having a REALLY good practical reason to carry a gun around), but I doubt even learning that fact will make many sheeple less nervous about him carrying a gun. A normal carrying a gun, well that's diffferent. That's almost normal. If you live in a town with a big Army base nearby you'd walk up and thank the Penney's guy for his service. I read about encounters here and the half that don't start with "do you have a permit for that?" start with "excuse me, are you a cop?" People notice the gun, but if you look and act the part of a fine upstanding citizen, they assume you're supposed to have it for some reason. If you look like a member of one or more fringe subcultures, you begin having a problem looking like you have a socially-acceptable reason to carry a gun.
 

Sonora Rebel

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:D LMAO! That's true! I remember encountering some large evil lookin' biker dude packin' somethin' large and equally evil lookin'... He sez... "Hey bro... Rt 82 down this road?" (Yeah)"That a Colt?" (Nah... Springfield)"I gotta get me one of those... .45 right?" (Yeah)"This POS's a 9... I hate it. (pattin' his gun)" "My mom gave it to me... " (I wondered if that was just before she went to prison) 'Have a good one!" (Yeah... Back atcha!)
 

KAHR54

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Thanks for all the replies to my post- lots of very interesting things to consider.

Now- Consider this:

I am going to play Bassguitar in a band at an outdoor gig during the afternoon, daylight hours at a motorcycle retailer , to wit : Electric City Harley Davidson, Dickson City,PA August 21, 5-9pm. Similar thread at: www.pafoa.org

The bass hides a lot, so does the hawaiin shirt I plan on wearing for the first few songs. But after the shirt comes off and the band goes on break and the guitar comes off, what are your comments/observations of the bass guy walking around OC ata bike party on a fine weekday afternoon.

Thanks for your comments.
 

Grapeshot

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KAHR54 wrote:
Thanks for all the replies to my post- lots of very interesting things to consider.

Now- Consider this:

I am going to play Bassguitar in a band at an outdoor gig during the afternoon, daylight hours at a motorcycle retailer , to wit : Electric City Harley Davidson, Dickson City,PA August 21, 5-9pm. Similar thread at: http://www.pafoa.org

The bass hides a lot, so does the hawaiin shirt I plan on wearing for the first few songs. But after the shirt comes off and the band goes on break and the guitar comes off, what are your comments/observations of the bass guy walking around OC ata bike party on a fine weekday afternoon.

Thanks for your comments.
Good to go!

Yata hey
 

pullnshoot25

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FogRider wrote:
tattedupboy wrote:
Darn! I guess I just need to go out and purchase myself an entirely new wardrobe if I even want to consider OCing. I guess that my wardrobe, which is mostly baggy clothes (not sagging pants that show my underwear, however) withloose fitting t-shirts, in addition to tattoo covered arms, carrying a full-size Glock 22,is not the image OCers should attempt to portray. Can't have anyone associating the "hip hop" look with OC, now can we?

My suggestion is to wear whatever you want, because no matter what, you are carrying not to be "accepted," but to protect yourself andyour loved ones.An anti is an anti, andthe sight of a gun is going to make them poop in their pants regardless if the person carrying it is a criminal, a law abiding citizen "nicely" dressed, or a"grungy" ordinary person. Just make sure that while you're carrying, you behave yourself.
Nah, go for it with what you have now. Just be aware that you might get a little less hassle if you dress a little nicer. While it may not be right, you will be judged partly by how you are dressed.
As Mark Twain said... "[font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Clothes make the man..."

The other half of that is
[/font][font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] "...Naked people have little or no influence on society"[/font]
 

UTOC-45-44

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340mopar wrote:
Same concept goes for a shoulder rig.

If I have a hip holster on and you have a shoulder Rig on ... guess who will bring the most attention....

Shoulder holster:celebrate. And I'm LOVING EVERY MINUTE OF IT (this is suppossed to be said in that Kramer way):celebrate.

TJ
 

deepdiver

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Ok, I've been following this thread and I have read some other threads on here about manner of dress and carrying one's self and I have an embarrassing, at least on this forum, admission to make.

I grew up sort of in two worlds. Summers rural where guns and hunting were common, the school year in suburban environments where guns were fairly uncommon except in the occasional hunting or military context. While we all had toy guns and BB/pellet guns, "real" guns were not something we saw except on LEOs. As I young adult I was mostly in IL, again, where guns were in the context of hunting, military, LEO or criminals. So by my late 20s, people carrying guns were categorized mentally into hunters, cowboys/farmers for varmints/snakes, cops and criminals. It wasn't until the CC discussions in MO started in earnest about 6-7 years ago that I became awakened to citizen carry outside of thsoe contexts.

Prior to that the only time I noticed or was aware of citizens carrying were on trips out west where I saw OC, but usually by someone who looked more like Walker Texas Ranger than Bob, CPA. When I saw a firearm on the hip of someone who looked like a Hell's Angel I got worried. I was intimidated. I assumed the worst. I never made a MWAG call, but I certainly wasn't above crossing the street or leaving a store to get away from the person. When I started to carry, even my career military/former sport hunter father and rural raised mother, both of whom have been around guns their entire lives, needed some time to wrap their heads around the fact that I carry. Took them about a year to totally accept it and be comfortable with it.

Because of this, perhaps I have some sympathy for the scared sheep. I also understand why certain people on the forum seem to excite more attention when OC than others. I spent enough time around guns hunting and target shooting that I was never an anti so for me it was an awakening not a conversion. But I can certainly see why some people may be scared, may be intimidated or may be confused.

I certainly would expect that it is more difficult for someone who is tattood or biker looking or more "scruffy" in dress and appearance to OC peacefully than it is for someone who looks military or LEO in dress, haircut and carriage. It is going to take several years to educate the public in some places. But this is one of the reasons I like OC. It helps break the stereo-types. It gives people a different awareness. When people they already know, who they see every day, who they know to be good, honest people regardless of how they look, OCing a sidearm, it makes them go, hhmmm. It makes them reconsider, to challenge their stereotypes, to rethink their assumptions.

So I would say that if you want to OC without drawing much attention most places, wear slacks or nice jeans, clean pressed shirt, polished leather casual shoes or boots, nice belt, well trimmed hair even if longer style, have clean manicured finger nails and avoid earrings/piercings and cover most tattoos. If that isn't you and you aren't worried about what people think and are willing to face the occasional LEO interaction, dress and look however you want. We are a diverse country and the general public need to learn that a diverse people are law abiding citizens who go armed for their own, their family's and their community's defense. Regardless, I applaud each of you who carry in their daily lives and applaud louder those who choose not to blend in and thereby accept the higher risk.
 

VAopencarry

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OC in part is about desensitizing the masses and normalising the fact that firearms are owned and carried by everyday normal people. Why 'dress up'? Are we trying to present that gun owners dress like yuppies? or everyday people from all walks of life?
 

Grapeshot

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VAopencarry wrote:
Why 'dress up'? Are we trying to present that gun owners dress like yuppies? or everyday people from all walks of life?
Yes
Yata hey
 

DJBiker

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Ok, I am brand new to this board, though I have been reading a lot here as a non member. I CC every day and everywhere it is legal to carry in TN. We have a handgun carry permit here that allows OC or CC so as long as you have a permit, you can carry.

There are hundreds of restrictions on where you can carry and that is part of the problem. I cannot carry into any restaurant that serves a beer for consumption on the premises and this includes Pizza Hut, Applebees, etc.I cannot carry in Church, any city or state property, park, voting area, school, or any other dang place that is posted.

While OC is legal here, and may have its place, and I am contemplating OC more and more and that is the reason I am here. To be educated on the why I would OC instead of CC.

CC lets me carry in situations where I could not legally OC and retain my personal belief in self defense regardless of the liberal mindset that limits my rights of self defense and self preservation.

The laws here prevent me from carrying in so many different scenarios, however if I am forced to use my weapon in an area for self defense or defense of another, in an area where I am prohibited from carrying, I am immune from prosecution for the fact that I carried in an area where I was prohibited. Confusing and very frustrating!

Let me say that OC would be much preferable to me due to my size and dress style, I am a big guy that loves to cook, LOL! I do have one problem with OC that I have thought about in great detail, and thoughI have heard the tactical advantage argument, and do not totally agree that that, there is one point to consider.

I do not carry due to the fact that any person(s) are after me or anything like that so I suppose I am much more likely to encounter a self defense issue at a public place likea convenience market, bank, etc.

Thinking likea thug, in order to make my self defense most effective, I know that they do not, most often, just run in with guns drawn. They case the place first, at least for a minute or two to see who is in the place. If I OC and they see my weapon, am I not target number one? Not that they would or could take my weapon and kill me with it, but they would shoot me first before starting the robbery. Am I wrong?

If I was a thug, I would enter, check to see if any LEO's were present, any visible signs of an armed guard or citizen, and then if I felt safe, make my move. If I was determined to make the robbery, I would shoot the LEO, the armed guard or the citizen first and then rob the place.

Now, I understand that OC may deter some of these situations since my presence may make them leave and go elsewhere, so what does everyone think?
 

Alwayspacking

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DJBiker wrote:
Ok, I am brand new to this board, though I have been reading a lot here as a non member. I CC every day and everywhere it is legal to carry in TN. We have a handgun carry permit here that allows OC or CC so as long as you have a permit, you can carry.

There are hundreds of restrictions on where you can carry and that is part of the problem. I cannot carry into any restaurant that serves a beer for consumption on the premises and this includes Pizza Hut, Applebees, etc.I cannot carry in Church, any city or state property, park, voting area, school, or any other dang place that is posted.

While OC is legal here, and may have its place, and I am contemplating OC more and more and that is the reason I am here. To be educated on the why I would OC instead of CC.

CC lets me carry in situations where I could not legally OC and retain my personal belief in self defense regardless of the liberal mindset that limits my rights of self defense and self preservation.

The laws here prevent me from carrying in so many different scenarios, however if I am forced to use my weapon in an area for self defense or defense of another, in an area where I am prohibited from carrying, I am immune from prosecution for the fact that I carried in an area where I was prohibited. Confusing and very frustrating!

Let me say that OC would be much preferable to me due to my size and dress style, I am a big guy that loves to cook, LOL! I do have one problem with OC that I have thought about in great detail, and thoughI have heard the tactical advantage argument, and do not totally agree that that, there is one point to consider.

I do not carry due to the fact that any person(s) are after me or anything like that so I suppose I am much more likely to encounter a self defense issue at a public place likea convenience market, bank, etc.

Thinking likea thug, in order to make my self defense most effective, I know that they do not, most often, just run in with guns drawn. They case the place first, at least for a minute or two to see who is in the place. If I OC and they see my weapon, am I not target number one? Not that they would or could take my weapon and kill me with it, but they would shoot me first before starting the robbery. Am I wrong?

If I was a thug, I would enter, check to see if any LEO's were present, any visible signs of an armed guard or citizen, and then if I felt safe, make my move. If I was determined to make the robbery, I would shoot the LEO, the armed guard or the citizen first and then rob the place.

Now, I understand that OC may deter some of these situations since my presence may make them leave and go elsewhere, so what does everyone think?



I understand what you are saying, but if you look at any of the robberies on YouTube or Liveleaks you will see that thugs for the most part do not firststake the place they are about to rob. From what I have seen on these videos they do come in with gun drawn. I have seen them just bust in the door, or stand in line and pull the gun lots of times there are other people in the store asit goes down.

When I OC once and was sitting in Denny's I had my strong side to the door and thought, if some one comes in here with bad intent, I would have to act very quickly before they try to take my gun from me. I do not think most of the BG will shoot first upon seeing a weapon on someone, but I think they would just take it, (some I think would shoot first, they would be the cold hard criminals) So upon considering that, I thought it is best to sit in a position where my gun is not seen, and I MUST be ready to act quickly is someone wereto run in a POB I was at. Also OC would give me a faster Draw.

As for in convenient stores, situation awareness is key here, along with body position. But in every case an OC should be able to react quickly to a threat knowing that his OC could lead to him first being a target, at least for a Gun Grab.

WIth that said, I also concluded that, If I OC or CC and a BG came in if he wanted to shoot someone no matter how I carry, or if I carry or not, I may or may notbe the first one he shoots
 

Grapeshot

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OCers at risk of being first shot - it just ain't so!

Historically BGs shoot unarmed victims and depart if they see an armed citizen. Reported here on OCDO and elsewhere regularly. I will not respond to a request for a cite, because I can't cite a non-occurring event.

I have asked for many years for one documented (with cite) such shooting wherein the BG executed a preemptive strike against a good citizen OCing in anyone of the fifty states. To date no such data has been received/reported.

Now mind you if someone were to locate a couple of such incidents somewhere in this vast land of ours, it might be said to strengthen my (I'm not alone on this) position when comparison was made to the total man hours OCd by the number of Ocers times the number of days/months/years they OC. Get my point?

IMHO - this thinking should be relegated to "Urban Legend" satus.

Yata hey
__________________________________________________________________

Back on thread -

I dress neat and clean, hat on straight, pants/belt at my waist and more often than not try to "fit in" with the style I expect at my destination. A lot like hiding in plain view. It works for me.

Yata hey
 

Alwayspacking

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Grapeshot wrote:
OCers at risk of being first shot - it just ain't so!

Historically BGs shoot unarmed victims and depart if they see an armed citizen. Reported here on OCDO and elsewhere regularly. I will not respond to a request for a cite, because I can't cite a non-occurring event.

I have asked for many years for one documented (with cite) such shooting wherein the BG executed a preemptive strike against a good citizen OCing in anyone of the fifty states. To date no such data has been received/reported.

Now mind you if someone were to locate a couple of such incidents somewhere in this vast land of ours, it might be said to strengthen my (I'm not alone on this) position when comparison was made to the total man hours OCd by the number of Ocers times the number of days/months/years they OC. Get my point?

IMHO - this thinking should be relegated to "Urban Legend" satus.

Yata hey


I think that Oc is so rare that thechances are the BG has not come into contact with a OCer while he was attempting to rob a joint, maybe that's the reason why.However more people CC and that's why we hear of the CC stopping a crime more so.
 

Grapeshot

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Alwayspacking wrote:
Grapeshot wrote:
OCers at risk of being first shot - it just ain't so!

Historically BGs shoot unarmed victims and depart if they see an armed citizen. Reported here on OCDO and elsewhere regularly. I will not respond to a request for a cite, because I can't cite a non-occurring event.

I have asked for many years for one documented (with cite) such shooting wherein the BG executed a preemptive strike against a good citizen OCing in anyone of the fifty states. To date no such data has been received/reported.

Now mind you if someone were to locate a couple of such incidents somewhere in this vast land of ours, it might be said to strengthen my (I'm not alone on this) position when comparison was made to the total man hours OCd by the number of Ocers times the number of days/months/years they OC. Get my point?

IMHO - this thinking should be relegated to "Urban Legend" satus.

Yata hey


I think that Oc is so rare that thechances are the BG has not come into contact with a OCer while he was attempting to rob a joint, maybe that's the reason why.However more people CC and that's why we hear of the CC stopping a crime more so.
Active response: An armed citizen choses to react by drawing weapon and/or actually engaging a BG. The press does not usually (never?) note whether the citizen was OCing or CCing.

Inactive response: The citizen takes no overt action but rather is viewed by the BG(s), either intentionally or unintentionally, as armed . This is a response only available to an OCer as the very condition of CCing precludes this.

While there have been numerous definitive studies on defensive responses, these have not (to the best of my knowledge) shown a tabulated accounting of OC vs CC.

The act of OCing is more limited in scope/numbers but each event is pointedly, individually an opportunity for such a catastrophy as is described - the premptive strike. So we therefore have the ability to draw a causual relationship - a per centage, fractional or decimal value to better assess the risk to the OCer from this specific threat. We take an estimated total number of OC occurances vs the number of deaths/injuries occurring because of that fact. IMHO - these numbers (or the lack of opposing) demonstrate my point best. Risk nearly 0%, 1,000,000/0 or -.000001

I suggest that there is a greater risk of being hit by an automobile while drinking coffee in a grocery store cafe and that I know is a quantum leap of mental imagery.
Yes, I know that nearly happened here in Richmond - Ukrop's in Carytown.

Bottom line: We each choose to express our basic tenants in different ways but embrace common goals.

Yata hey
 

Alwayspacking

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Grapeshot wrote:
Active response: An armed citizen choses to react by drawing weapon and/or actually engaging a BG. The press does not usually (never?) note whether the citizen was OCing or CCing.

Inactive response: The citizen takes no overt action but rather is viewed by the BG(s), either intentionally or unintentionally, as armed . This is a response only available to an OCer as the very condition of CCing precludes this.

While there have been numerous definitive studies on defensive responses, these have not (to the best of my knowledge) shown a tabulated accounting of OC vs CC.

The act of OCing is more limited in scope/numbers but each event is pointedly, individually an opportunity for such a catastrophy as is described - the premptive strike. So we therefore have the ability to draw a causual relationship - a per centage, fractional or decimal value to better assess the risk to the OCer from this specific threat. We take an estimated total number of OC occurances vs the number of deaths/injuries occurring because of that fact. IMHO - these numbers (or the lack of opposing) demonstrate my point best. Risk nearly 0%, 1,000,000/0 or -.000001

I suggest that there is a greater risk of being hit by an automobile while drinking coffee in a grocery store cafe and that I know is a quantum leap of mental imagery.
Yes, I know that nearly happened here in Richmond - Ukrop's in Carytown.

Bottom line: We each choose to express our basic tenants in different ways but embrace common goals.

Yata hey
:shock:WHAT !!?? :shock:
 

Alwayspacking

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It be hard fo dis ole countray bo to understands that thereintellectual jargon you be say-n inwhat you just typed. But after reading it a few times I got it.

I understand it is a slim to none chance of being made the first target. But I do think a harden criminal would stilltarget a OCer first, yet there is the chance he will not even notice the pistol.If the BG is dead set on killing someone, it really would not matter it a person OC or not, if he is going to shoot someone. gun or not someone may get shot. But for the most part I think the avg.BG would not attempt anything if they see a weapon on someone.
 

DJBiker

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Thanks everyonefor the input, I may be leaning more toward OC vs CC after all. In my attempts to CC I often wear a 5.11 tactical vest which screams CC to every BG anyway right?
As for wardrobe for OC, I will try to dress neatly, I suppose that OC with a dress shirt or Polo may stir negative feelings in the sheeple less so than my usual attire of a Harley t-shirt and jeans.
 
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