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Thread: Level III/ Class III

  1. #1
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    Just curious...!!



    I am looking out to purchase a Class III assault rifle Colt AR-15 Sporter SP1 Carbine.

    Anyone here with past / present difficulties in obtaining such a high caliber weapon?????????

    I need some inputs here ...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Appreciate the help guys.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  2. #2
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    marine2000 wrote:
    Just curious...!!



    I am looking out to purchase a Class III assault rifle Colt AR-15 Sporter SP1 Carbine.

    Anyone here with past / present difficulties in obtaining such a high caliber weapon?????????

    I need some inputs here ...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Appreciate the help guys.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I believe LEO229 has more than one. Send him a PM...
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    First Step... find one you want!!

    They are going to cost you at least $10,000. This is the lowest I have seen. Average price is actually around $15,000

    http://www.machinegunpriceguide.com/html/sitemap.html

    Browse a few here....

    http://www.subguns.com/classifieds/?...rmat=headlines

    http://www.westernfirearms.com/wfc

    You pay for it either 50/50 or payment in full

    You find a Class III dealer to do your paperwork locally unless you both happen to live next to each other.

    Dealer does your forms and charges you about $150 for his time. You get the CLEO to sign off on your forms after you get your passport photo and prints done.

    You write a check to the ATF for $200 and mail it along with the forms, and print cards.

    Wait.... 15 days to 6 months and your Class III dealer get the forms back.

    The entire time.... your Class III dealer holds onto your gun.

    Once the ATF places a $200 tax stamp on your form and returns it... you take the form and the gun home!!!

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    Very tedious paper work but I'll assure you that you'll be happy in the end. After that wait is over, I was a really happy camper.

    In my city, the CLEO won't sign off on any Form 4s so I had to create a trust.

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    The sad thing is the CLEO is not going to ever stop you from getting it.... Corporation or trust gets around it. Just an additional cost.

    Sad since the 1934 tax started.... only two registered machine guns were used in crimes.

    Those that do get them legally are far less likely to use them for evil purposes than someone owning any other type firearm.

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    What's even more sad is the fact that the pre-86 guns that are out there are 'worth' more than my friggen pickup truck, yet the 'gooberment' can get them at their actual value of 1-2K bucks...

    RAAARRRR



    ETA: LEO I agree 100% with you.

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    The sad thing is the CLEO is not going to ever stop you from getting it.... Corporation or trust gets around it. Just an additional cost.

    Sad since the 1934 tax started.... only two registered machine guns were used in crimes.

    Those that do get them legally are far less likely to use them for evil purposes than someone owning any other type firearm.
    leo,

    not trying to get post off topic so feel free to pm the answer as i actually want to know the answer but don't want to hijack a thread. what details if any do you know about the two incidents? were the registered owners committing the crime or had they been stolen then used in a crime? Also when. where did this happen?

    Thanks.

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    C45P312 wrote:

    In my city, the CLEO won't sign off on any Form 4s so I had to create a trust.
    I called to see if the Police Chief would sign off last year and they directed me to the City's (I might be wrong about this): ?Commonwealth Attorney? and the lady I spoke with said she would sign no problem. I decided to go with the trust anyway as it was a better deal for me but, I just wanted to let you know that Chesapeake IS signing.

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    Regular Member possumboy's Avatar
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    67GT390FB wrote:
    leo,

    not trying to get post off topic so feel free to pm the answer as i actually want to know the answer but don't want to hijack a thread. what details if any do you know about the two incidents? were the registered owners committing the crime or had they been stolen then used in a crime? Also when. where did this happen?

    Thanks.
    That would be a good topic - start a new thread. Does the registration really work, and did it help find the people responsible.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Do not forget to register with Virginia State Police!
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    Thundar wrote:
    Do not forget to register with Virginia State Police!
    Yes, my understanding is you must do so within 24 hours of receiving the firearm.

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    Neplusultra wrote:
    Thundar wrote:
    Do not forget to register with Virginia State Police!
    Yes, my understanding is you must do so within 24 hours of receiving the firearm.

    § 18.2-295. Registration of machine guns.

    Every machine gun in this Commonwealth shall be registered with the Department of State Police within twenty-four hours after its acquisition or, in the case of semi-automatic weapons which are converted, modified or otherwise altered to become machine guns, within twenty-four hours of the conversion, modification or alteration. Blanks for registration shall be prepared by the Superintendent of State Police, and furnished upon application. To comply with this section the application as filed shall be notarized and shall show the model and serial number of the gun, the name, address and occupation of the person in possession, and from whom and the purpose for which, the gun was acquired or altered. The Superintendent of State Police shall upon registration required in this section forthwith furnish the registrant with a certificate of registration, which shall be valid as long as the registrant remains the same. Certificates of registration shall be retained by the registrant and produced by him upon demand by any peace officer. Failure to keep or produce such certificate for inspection shall be a Class 3 misdemeanor, and any peace officer, may without warrant, seize the machine gun and apply for its confiscation as provided in § 18.2-296. Upon transferring a registered machine gun, the transferor shall forthwith notify the Superintendent in writing, setting forth the date of transfer and name and address of the transferee. Failure to give the required notification shall constitute a Class 3 misdemeanor. Registration data shall not be subject to inspection by the public.

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    possumboy wrote:
    67GT390FB wrote:
    leo,

    not trying to get post off topic so feel free to pm the answer as i actually want to know the answer but don't want to hijack a thread. what details if any do you know about the two incidents? were the registered owners committing the crime or had they been stolen then used in a crime? Also when. where did this happen?

    Thanks.
    That would be a good topic - start a new thread. Does the registration really work, and did it help find the people responsible.
    Well, it is hard to tell if the registration "works" since there are only two stories that I know of that have ever happened. There is always the possibilitythata registered gun wasusedand the ownerjust did not getcaught.

    There is identifyingmaterial captured by way of the shell casings so unless you find the gun... you will not know who the owner is.

    The only thing the registrationreally does is account for the current owner. So you are prevented from just selling it to an anonymous person who wants to use it forevil purposes.

    Having said all that..... With only two knownshootings involving registered machine guns..... it would appear that far less machine guns have ever been used to killsomeone versus handguns and rifles.

    Some will argue the total number available versus handguns and rifles but you have to compare 2 machine guns out of the 250,000 out there. So 2.... is a very small number.

    One shooting was by a doctor and the other a cop.

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    JeffersonDavis wrote:
    C45P312 wrote:

    In my city, the CLEO won't sign off on any Form 4s so I had to create a trust.
    I called to see if the Police Chief would sign off last year and they directed me to the City's (I might be wrong about this): ?Commonwealth Attorney? and the lady I spoke with said she would sign no problem. I decided to go with the trust anyway as it was a better deal for me but, I just wanted to let you know that Chesapeake IS signing.
    Nancy Parr?

    Well, I got the trust set up already. No use in getting it "signed off" unless it'll save me turn around time! lol

  16. #16
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    C45P312 wrote:
    JeffersonDavis wrote:
    C45P312 wrote:

    In my city, the CLEO won't sign off on any Form 4s so I had to create a trust.
    I called to see if the Police Chief would sign off last year and they directed me to the City's (I might be wrong about this): ?Commonwealth Attorney? and the lady I spoke with said she would sign no problem. I decided to go with the trust anyway as it was a better deal for me but, I just wanted to let you know that Chesapeake IS signing.
    Nancy Parr?

    Well, I got the trust set up already. No use in getting it "signed off" unless it'll save me turn around time! lol
    It wont save any turnaround time. You can get it signed in Chesapeake but there really isn't any good reason not to set up a Trust.

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    One shooting was by a doctor and the other a cop.
    LEO 229, can you provide details ofor a link to those stories? I had heard about the cop story and use it when discussing the lack of danger to society of the availability of class 3 items. Thanks.

    Tom

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    tboone wrote:
    One shooting was by a doctor and the other a cop.
    LEO 229, can you provide details ofor a link to those stories? I had heard about the cop story and use it when discussing the lack of danger to society of the availability of class 3 items. Thanks.

    Tom
    Here is one

    http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcfullau.html

    It mentions the secondbut no details. I read the other one online but did not save it. I will keep looking.

  19. #19
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    tboone wrote:
    One shooting was by a doctor and the other a cop.
    LEO 229, can you provide details ofor a link to those stories? I had heard about the cop story and use it when discussing the lack of danger to society of the availability of class 3 items. Thanks.

    Tom
    Here is one

    http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcfullau.html

    It mentions the secondbut no details. I read the other one online but did not save it. I will keep looking.

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    And its title 2, not class 3 by the way.

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    Bill in VA wrote:
    Sheriff wrote:
    The commonwealth attorney is the chief law enforcement officer in any city or county. I'm not sure why people keep thinking it's a police chief or sheriff.
    Because the Chief of Police's/Sheriff's signature is the one most frequently obtained by the transferee andmost commonlyaccepted by the BATF NFA Branch. FWIW, BATF has also accepted signatures fromjudges, heads of state police, and even county coroners.
    This true.....

    The CLEO that is assigned the task of signing is generally always going to be the Chief or Sheriff for the location you live in.

    If you have both.... the Sheriff will normally have the task. And then..... he will assign someone to sign for him as he is too busy to do the back ground checks.

    As for the remaining people that "can" sign in place of the traditional CLEO.... they are not really wanting to do this as they do not have easy access to do the checks and they are far to busy. Imagine if they had to process a dozen applications every week and do their normal work.

    So.... everyone is encouraged to start with the Chief and Sheriff first.If you have a refusal... you go to the others. If enough others get bothered by this they can jump on the guy refusing so they do not have to do it. That is.... if they would actually sign for you in the first place.

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    I had a problem with the Chief of James City County when I wanted to acquire my first full auto. I made an appointment to meet with him and when I presented him the ATF forms, he blurted out, " Mister, you had better have a goddamned good reason why you want this weapon because I think that only police officers should own guns!"

    I replied that I simply wanted to add them to my collection and that while I respected his right to his opinion, I chose to exersize my right to own that type of weapon under Virginia law and the Constitution of the United States.

    He threw the papers back at me and said that he would never sign the ATF paperwork. I said, " Chief, if I'm not a convicted felon, you have to sign the papers. Ask the Commonwealth Attorney."

    He took the papers back and said, "I'll do just that mister!" and ordered me out of his office.

    The very next day his secretary called and basically "ordered" me to meet the Chief in his office that day.

    He said," Look here mister. I'm only signing this because I have to but I want to put you on notice that I believe that only police should own guns and I'll be keeping a close eye on you."

    I replied, "Thank you for your kind words and if you want to keep a close eye on me, you can come to the Norfolk PD K-9 Range every Tuesday and Thursday between the hours of 1300-1700. I teach CQB to the Norfolk Emergency Response Team at that location on those days. Oh yeah and BTW, I'll be finished with the second ghille suit for your sniper team shortly and I'm sure that it will enhance your SWAT Team's tactical effectiveness. Have a wonderful day!"

    He had a very confused look on his face as I turned and walked out of his office...
    Bitka Sve Rešava!
    B-2-10 SFG(A)/ A-2-11 SFG(A) 1977-1994

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    Sheriff wrote:
    ODA 226 wrote:
    I had a problem with the Chief of James City County.... " Mister, you had better have a goddamned good reason why you want this weapon because I think that only police officers should own guns!"

    .... "Look here mister. I'm only signing this because I have to but I want to put you on notice that I believe that only police should own guns and I'll be keeping a close eye on you.".....

    As I have said many times, the police are not your friend when gun rights are involved. It has been my experience that the majority of police chiefs and sheriffs (and many of their subordinates) feel thatonly cops should have guns. Do the above remarks prove it to you yet?
    Sheriff,

    I was a Deputy Sheriff in a past life. I know the deal...
    Bitka Sve Rešava!
    B-2-10 SFG(A)/ A-2-11 SFG(A) 1977-1994

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