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Thread: US v Olofson Update

  1. #1
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    http://waronguns.blogspot.com/2008/0...-olofsons.html

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    Friday, July 04, 2008

    An Independence Day Message from the Olofson's

    Yesterday was the hardest day of our lives, writing this, right now seems to be the second. We drove David, along with Larry Pratt of GOA, to the Sandstone institution yesterday. Larry’s presence, words of wisdom and comfort were invaluable. We would be faring a lot worse today if it would have not been for him – thank you Larry from the bottom of our hearts. We would ask all of you, if you can, to please support GOA in the defense of David for this unthinkable miscarriage of injustice. This conviction MUST be righted for ALL Americans, for David, and for the 2nd Amendment of America’s Constitution. With this present ruling, anyone who owns a firearm can be made guilty of owning a machine gun.

    We just received a call from David early this AM. He is doing fine, so far. He did admit that he under estimated how badly all the people there are being gouged for everything they must buy. The $200 he took with him will not get him very far. I told him we would see the he gets his allotment of $300 for every mo. Please DO NOT send him any money. We will talk to a few people on how to handle that subject, and if there is something you all can do we will pass that information on. As an example David indicated he is getting a tooth ache and a small bottle, 24 pills, of ibuprofen cost him $7.

    The few people he has talked to indicated that they are treated well - to which we replied: follow your new counsel’s advice. And we know his new representation has HIS best interests in mind, as opposed to his prior.

    He did ask that we pass on his address for everyone, and please pass it on so everyone who wants to can write him:

    David R. Olofson
    08632089-K1
    Federal Correctional Institute
    PO Box 1000
    Sandstone, MN 55072

    David also indicated that there is no e-mail, so snail mail is the only option.

    We hope everyone has a happier 4th, and please keep David in your prayers.

    Dave & Pat Olofson

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Thought I should post this here since he is a member and was railroaded by the BATFE.

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    I can't think of words to express my sentiment toward this, especially so soon after celebrating our day of Independence.

    Well, I can think of words, but they are either not appropriate for a family forum, or make references to the desired hanging of certain groups of treasonous Federal employees from certain high places.

    In the meanwhile, I'll substitute a

  3. #3
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    Moderators, will you please 'sticky' this one?

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    +1 for Sticky. I'll be writing him a short letter later today sending love and support. I'm sure he'd like to hear from all of us.

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    I hadn't heard about this. Been reading too much liberal media I guess. Going to prison for loaning some jerk a rifle that malfunctions. That's bad. Note to self: Never loan anyone a dirty SKS.

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    I'm pretty sure it was an Olympic arms AR15 not an SKS, unless you're making a parallel between the two weapons.

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    Yes, my understanding is that it was an AR-15 of some sort. I was just referencing the known issue with SKS firing pins sticking forward and putting your whole clip downrange.

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    thorvaldr wrote:
    Yes, my understanding is that it was an AR-15 of some sort. I was just referencing the known issue with SKS firing pins sticking forward and putting your whole clip downrange.
    It happens to AK's too... :shock:

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    A little from memory here...

    During the trial, an ATF guy was asked if (theoretically here) he had a double barrel shotgun, that had a bad part, but would fire both barrels at the same time from a single trigger pull, if that would be considered a MG. The answer was "yes".

    So, you have that 1911 you just bought used.. take it to the range and find out it has a "home" done trigger job and a bad sear angle and goes full bore on you.. you now have not a bad/broken pistol, but a MG.

    I know there was a bunch of other stuff as well, but that stuck in my mind.


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    MontanaCZ wrote:
    A little from memory here...

    During the trial, an ATF guy was asked if (theoretically here) he had a double barrel shotgun, that had a bad part, but would fire both barrels at the same time from a single trigger pull, if that would be considered a MG. The answer was "yes".



    Hard to argue with that infallible logic. Don't they have better things to be wasting our tax money on then prosecuting such stupid cases and don't they have any real criminals to be throwing the book at?


    EDIT: I hate spelling errors.



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    AWDstylez wrote:
    SNIP Hard to argue with that infalleble logic. Don't they have better things to be wasting our tax money on then prosecuting such stupid cases and don't they have any real criminals to be throwing the book at?
    Why pursue the difficult when there is easier prey?

    Plus, there's lots more of the easy prey.Then they can say, "See all the bad guys we caught! It costs lots of money to catchall of them. Keep the money flowing. We're putting it to good use catching all these bad guys. Better yet, better increase our budget. You see how many we already catch? There are even more out there."
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    *

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    Citizen wrote:
    Why pursue the difficult when there is easier prey?
    Sounds A great deal like the criminal mentality.

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    DopaVash wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    Why pursue the difficult when there is easier prey?
    Sounds A great deal like the criminal mentality.
    Ohhhhhhhh snap!

    The BATF isn't a criminal organization! They have the blessing of the gubmint so they can't do nothing wrong!

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    Pointman wrote:
    Their core, union laborers and welfare recipients, do what they're told.
    as strange at it may seem, I noticed this just the day before yesterday. I am working on joining a local laborers union, and at the training class I was attendiong the subject of Osama came up. after the trainer asked "what's so wrong with Obama", I answered. needless to say, my answer wasn't recieved very well.

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    unreconstructed1 wrote:
    Pointman wrote:
    Their core, union laborers and welfare recipients, do what they're told.
    as strange at it may seem, I noticed this just the day before yesterday. I am working on joining a local laborers union, and at the training class I was attendiong the subject of Osama came up. after the trainer asked "what's so wrong with Obama", I answered. needless to say, my answer wasn't recieved very well.
    Was it what you said or how you said it?

    You didn't let any justifiable anger creep into your voice did you?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen wrote:
    Was it what you said or how you said it?

    You didn't let any justifiable anger creep into your voice did you?
    I really don't think so. after he asked the question, I just stated "well for starters, let's look at his anti- 2nd ammendment record. he has consistently voted against for every gun control measure ever put in front of him"

    after that, I was aked " what are you? a republican?", and then I was informed that "a vote against Obama, is a vote for McCain, which eerily mirrors all of the "a vote against McCain is a vote for Obama" rhetoric I have heard as of late. after I assured him that I was neither republican nor democrat, in fact I believe that the 2 party system is one of the worst downfalls of the American electoral process, I was informed that " the democrats ain't going to take away your gun rights, they just want to ban all of the guns that people "don't need anyway".

    the people that I have met in the union so far have honestly been really down to earth, intelligent folks, and I agree with some of their ideology, but I really don't see any good coming from talking politics with these folks...

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    What's wrong with Obama?

    What about having no experience at all? (Voting mostly "present" in the IL legislature and "absent" in the senate don't strike me as experience)
    What about having the number one leftist voting record in the entire senate?
    What about hating America so bad he wont put his hand on heart during the national anthem?
    What about thinking that the supreme court should judge based on promoting social progress instead of what the constitution says?
    What about associating with racists and terrorists? (I mean the weathermen guy I'm not saying he's Muslim)
    What about being an elitist jerk?

    I assume I'm preaching to the choir but there is a LOT wrong with Obama other than being a rabid gungrabber.

    And yes, a vote for McCain is a vote against Obama. Vote for McCain, don't pull any of this not voting or voting for a libertarian nonsense. Obama must be stopped and you have to do it, vote for McCain.

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    I too have a strong opinion on this election and would like to comment as much as anyone and probably more than most, BUT ...

    This is a very important thread.
    The happenings and outcome of this case have potential far reaching effects for many gun owners which is why the GOA got involved. It is important that we keep this thread on topic and do not run a risk of getting it locked down. Please, please, please keep this thread on topic!!
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.p...p;pageId=69668

    Gun expert claims feds punishing him
    Trial court gave man jail for malfunctioning rifle
    Posted: July 14, 2008
    9:44 pm Eastern

    By Bob Unruh
    ©2008WorldNetDaily

    A gun expert who testified against the government when David Olofson was on trial for loaning to an acquaintance a gun that misfired now says the government is punishing him for that testimony.
    The allegation comes from Len Savage, who runs Historic Arms LLC and works with antique and historic weapons as well as weapons design and parts for gun makers.
    His testimony in the Olofson case, in Berlin, Wis., harshly criticized the government's weapons testing procedures. In that case, the defendant was convicted and sentenced to 30 months in jail for loaning a rifle that misfired, letting off three bullets at one time.
    (Story continues below)

    The government then classified it a machine gun, and convicted Olofson of "transferring" such a weapon. He surrendered to federal authorities just a few weeks ago to begin serving his term, prompting the Gun Owners of America to issue a warning about the owner's liability should any semi-automatic weapon ever misfire.
    "A gun that malfunctions is not a machine gun," Larry Pratt, executive director of GOA, said. "What the [federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives] has done in the Olofson case has set a precedent that could make any of the millions of Americans that own semi-automatic firearms suddenly the owner [of] an unregistered machine gun at the moment the gun malfunctions."
    When U.S. District Judge Charles Clevert imposed the sentence, a commentary in Guns Magazine said, "It didn't matter the rifle in question had not been intentionally modified for select fire, or that it did not have an M16 bolt carrier … that it did not show any signs of machining or drilling, or that that model had even been recalled a few years back," said
    "It didn't matter the government had repeatedly failed to replicate automatic fire until they replaced the ammunition with a softer primer type. It didn't even matter that the prosecution admitted it was not important to prove the gun would do it again if the test were conducted today," the magazine said. "What mattered was the government's position that none of the above was relevant because '[T]here's no indication it makes any difference under the statute. If you pull the trigger once and it fires more than one round, no matter what the cause it's a machine gun.'
    "No matter what the cause."
    Savage told WND that in the short time since the trial, one of the government witnesses against Olofson within the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives was transferred to a position of overseeing Savage's work.
    Now a decision by that agency could cost him hundreds of thousands of dollars, he said.
    He said he recently submitted to the federal agency a proposed part for an existing line of legal machine guns, a part that would convert the weapons to operate with ammunition that costs 1 or 2 cents per shell, instead of 25 cents or more.
    Savage told WND he submitted the part to the BATFE, even though it technically was not a gun, and was stunned to get a response that not only was his repair part a gun, it was a machine gun and he had only hours to "register" it properly.
    And all it took was some metal, a length of chain, some duct tape and some plastic wire ties for the agency to make his gun part operate in that fashion, he said he was told.
    "The materials [BATFE] added converted the firearm submitted by Historic Arms, LLC into a machine gun; therefore, the materials constitute a machine gun receiver, a machine gun, or a conversion device," Savage responded to John Spencer, chief of the agency's Firearms Technology Branch, in a letter about the situation.
    Reviewing the agency's modifications to his gun part that allowed it to fire automatically, Savage agreed. Sure, he said, that's what happens when you add the components of an automatic weapon to any part such as his.
    "If the criteria FTB applied to the testing of our latest submission was applied to testing the many caliber conversion uppers that are sold at retail with no restrictions, such as the .22 long rifle MAC upper made by 'Flemming,' (1) all of them would fire in fully automatic mode until the ammunition supply was exhausted, (2) there would be no way for the shooter to stop fire," he wrote.
    Officials with the BATFE told WND they were investigating the claims, but could not respond immediately.
    "The choice of FTB to install several versions of a 'conversion device' in order to induce full auto fire are clear and reliable evidence that they were contrived to deny my constitutional rights," he wrote in a letter to the agency.
    He said the issue is similar to that of the Olofson case. There, the government's first test of the rifle showed it to be just that, a rifle. But the agents prosecuting the case weren't satisfied, and demanded another test using a special ammunition, which did trigger a malfunction and an instance of multiple fire, he said.
    In his case, he told WND the multiple modifications to his gun part clearly reveal the agency's message that no one ever should testify against it.
    "[The] enforcement officer ... was assigned to a position of authority over me five months after testifying against him in US v. Olofson," Savage wrote. "This appearance of impropriety is clear to anyone, the onus is on FTB at this point," he said.
    "The submitted firearm was not made from a machine gun, is not a machine gun, and is my property, that I want returned immediately," he said.
    At an online forum on weapons issues, the comments were one-sided.
    "Uh-oh. I have plastic ties and duct tape, and a semi-auto rifle. There may be an old chain somewhere in the yard or the basement," one anonymous contributor said.
    Savage told WND it was simply the result of "vindictiveness" on the part of the federal agency.
    Savage, who holds a federal license to make guns of all types, said, "This is what they do to anybody who speaks about against them."
    "I know what this is," he said. "Retribution."
    Savage had been outspoken about the Olofson case from the beginning.
    He said during an http://www.jpfo.org/media-sound/len-savage-01-10-08.mp3]interview with Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership[/url] that Olofson had been instructing a man in the use of guns, and the student asked to borrow a rifle for some shooting practice.
    "Mr. Olofson was nice enough to accommodate him," Savage said. So the student, Robert Kiernicki, went to a range and fired about 120 rounds. "He went to put in another magazine and the rifle shot three times, then jammed."
    He said the rifle, which was subject to a manufacturer's recall because of mechanical problems at one point, malfunctioned because of the way it was made.
    Savage said once the government confiscated the gun, things got worse.
    "They examined and test fired the rifle; then declared it to be 'just a rifle,'" Savage said. "You would think it would all be resolved at this point, this was merely the beginning."
    He said the Special Agent in Charge, Jody Keeku, asked for a re-test and specified that the tests use "soft primered commercial ammunition."
    "FTB has no standardized testing procedures, in fact it has no written procedures at all for testing firearms," Savage said. "They had no standard to stick to, and gleefully tried again. The results this time...'a machinegun.' ATF with a self-admitted 50 percent error rate pursued an indictment and Mr. Olofson was charged with 'Unlawful transfer of a machinegun.'. Not possession, not even Robert Kiernicki was charged with possession (who actually possessed the rifle), though the ATF paid Mr. Kiernicki 'an undisclosed amount of money' to testify against Mr. Olofson at trial," Savage said.


  21. #21
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    Sorry about the Obama thing.

    So what are we going to do about it? I have an idea. Currently there is a bill (HR4900)

    http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-4900

    It yanks the BATFE's leash on a bunch of other subjects.

    It is currently in the House Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security. They have the authority to make changes to the bill before recommending it for a vote. Everyone should bring this mans plight, and the BATFE actions that led to it, to the attention of every member of the House Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security. You can find a list of the members from the above link. Ask them to take positive action on this bill and to include a provision that a malfunctioning weapon does not count as machingun.

    Defence funds and well wishes are important but in the long run, the BATFE needs to be controlled and the laws need to be changed.


  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    The BATFE needs to be disbanded and eliminated. But the bloviaters in the Capital Building are not ever going to relinquish such great control over We, the People. I would love to see them reigned in, but I don't see it happening in the next 4 years.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    deepdiver wrote:
    The BATFE needs to be disbanded and eliminated. But the bloviaters in the Capital Building are not ever going to relinquish such great control over We, the People. I would love to see them reigned in, but I don't see it happening in the next 4 years.
    That's why we've got to do it now. A case like this is blatant enough that congress would have to pass a law to do something about it or end up looking like jerks. The homeland security etc. subcommittee has the power to add a protection to people with malfunctioning weapons to HR 4900 and kick it to the next step.

    I don't know about you but I would like to not spend 30 months in the pen if my semi auto ever malfunctions.

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    What really gets me is that even if any multi-firing gun is a machine gun, it wasn't one when he transferred it!!!!!

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    thorvaldr wrote:
    deepdiver wrote:
    The BATFE needs to be disbanded and eliminated. But the bloviaters in the Capital Building are not ever going to relinquish such great control over We, the People. I would love to see them reigned in, but I don't see it happening in the next 4 years.
    That's why we've got to do it now. A case like this is blatant enough that congress would have to pass a law to do something about it or end up looking like jerks. The homeland security etc. subcommittee has the power to add a protection to people with malfunctioning weapons to HR 4900 and kick it to the next step.

    I don't know about you but I would like to not spend 30 months in the pen if my semi auto ever malfunctions.
    Better work on getting that 2/3 majority in Congress...

    Still doing this about the OP, though:

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