Possible self-defense shootng in SL

scorpioajr · Aug 1, 2008

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utbagpiper wrote:

....They say they will meet with the district attorney very soon to discuss the case....

It was ruled SELF-DEFENSE

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_10063162

scorpioajr · Aug 1, 2008

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" Let me understand a "liberals" thinking here..........

Mr. Harrison had two other witnesses to confirm his story (no where in this story does it mention Harrison holding a gun to these two witnesses heads), he has stated numerous of times how he wishes this incident had never taken place.

Now, on the other hand (left one to be exact), had Mr. Harrison been a law abiding liberal and had the living crap beatin' out of him or possibly been killed. Mr. Mays would be charged with assault and battery, attempted murder, or murder. And the Utah Tax Payers would foot the bill.

While I feel sorry for both families to have to go through this ordeal, I'm still in favor of concealed weapons."

-BrainFart:8/1/2008 4:17:00 AM:http://166.70.44.77/comments/read_comments.asp?ref=10063162&sec=News

Hahahahaha

swjr · Aug 1, 2008

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It is unfortunate that despite the DA ruling self-defense that there are still so many in this state that insist that this event was murder and a murderer is walking free.

You shouldn't have to worry about jail or repurcussions when you are defending yourself and/or your family from threats of harm.

It's nice to have a forum like this where you can find those with similar mindsets and ethics regarding gun laws and safety.

Thank you opencarry.org for being a voice!

thx997303 · Aug 1, 2008

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From what I know of the case, I believe that it was absolutely self defense.

Glad the DA agreed.

scorpioajr · Aug 4, 2008

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swjr wrote:

...You shouldn't have to worry about jail or repercussions when you are defending yourself and/or your family from threats of harm....

Unfortunately I'm sure this isn't the case.

Half of the people that OC/CC for protection probably (hopefully) dread the day they might have to defend themselves. However, Its sad, that we worry so much about what its worth to us that we protected ourselves PRE-event...

Edit: (((Did that make sense?)))

Marine Master Sergeant · Aug 4, 2008

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There should NOT be any concern with regard to whether or not the shooter had a permit to carry. We ALL know that the shooter could have been a good citizen, exercising his right to legally OPEN CARRY.

I wonder if the initial outcome of this would have been different, if the shooter was just a guy, open-carrying his firearm in accordance with Utah law?

He'd probably be in jail? If I was a betting man, he would be.

Eventhough I open carry on occasion-- still glad I have my CFP.

.45

scorpioajr · Aug 4, 2008

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.45calcarry wrote:

..I wonder if the initial outcome of this would have been different, if the shooter was just a guy, open-carrying his firearm in accordance with Utah law? He'd probably be in jail? If I was a betting man, he would be.....

I hope your wrong. That would suggest that this man is currently innocent soley due to the fact that he retains a CFP, and therefore a Non-CFP holder (Who is legally OCing at the time) would have been convicted for murder if he had equally defended himself (and/or family).

Whoa, that would be horrible.

Marine Master Sergeant · Aug 4, 2008

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Well, I hope it would not be the fact either, ProtectedBy9mm.

My concern is-- the damn mindset of the LEOS.

Let's imagine how the news coverage of the shooting would have been, if the shooter were just a common citizen, exercising his/her rights.

KSL probably would've been all over it!! LIKE STINK ON SH@!. (you know what I mean?)

scorpioajr · Aug 4, 2008

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.45calcarry wrote:

Well, I hope it would not be the fact either, ProtectedBy9mm.

My concern is-- the damn mindset of the LEOS.

Let's imagine how the news coverage of the shooting would have been, if the shooter were just a common citizen, exercising his/her rights.

KSL probably would've been all over it!! LIKE STINK ON SH@!. (you know what I mean?)

Yes- I see your logic: However, i am desperately hoping that wouldn't be the way of it. :banghead:

swjr · Aug 5, 2008

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http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_10099713

Man's family angered by self-defense ruling

By Lindsay Whitehurst
The Salt Lake Tribune

Article Last Updated:08/05/2008 12:10:17 AM MDT

The family of Mike J. Mays, who was slain by an off-duty security guard, said they are "very upset" by Salt Lake County prosecutors' decision not to press charges.
"I totally think it was unjustifiable . . . at least they could have written him a ticket, something," said Mays' first wife, Holly Mays, 49. "I think now people think you can basically open fire in a residential area and say, 'I did it in self-defense.' "
Prosectors last week concluded that George Harrison, 59, shot Mays in self-defense in a July 9 confrontation between the two men that started when Mays was across the street from Mama's Southern Plantation restaurant, 1394 S. West Temple, according to a news release from the prosecutor's office.
Mays began shouting threats at Harrison, claiming, "You don't know who I am," and "I'm going to [expletive] you up."
When he was two or three feet from Harrison, Mays lifted his shirt and reached for his waistband.
Fearing Mays was reaching for a gun, Harrison drew his own .38 Special revolver and shot the other man once in the torso, killing him, according to prosecutors.
Mays was later found to be unarmed.
For Mays' son, the decision not to charge Harrison is heart-rending, especially because Harrison apparently gave no verbal warning.
"Man, when you kill someone you've got to pay the price . . . you've got to take responsibility," Mike Workman, 24, said. "[Harrison] needs to know [Mays] had loved ones."
Workman said the family is considering a civil lawsuit.
Salt Lake County District Attorney's Office spokeswoman Alicia Cook said Monday the facts of the case led prosecutors to believe a reasonable person would have had a reasonable belief, as Harrison did, that his or her life was in danger.
Cook added that prosecutors could not charge Harrison with a lesser crime because the self-defense statute doesn't allow for one when lethal force is used.
"With self-defense you are justified in using the force or you are not," Cook said.
Prosecutors said Harrison obtained a concealed-weapons permit for his gun in Indiana, and that Utah recognizes weapons permits issued in other states.
Attempts to contact Harrison for comment were unsuccessful.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_10099713
WOW, and now the family wants to file suit against Harrison?

scorpioajr · Aug 5, 2008

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".... "I totally think it was unjustifiable . . . at least they could have written him a ticket, something," said Mays' first wife,....Mays began shouting threats at Harrison, claiming, "You don't know who I am," and "I'm going to [expletive] you up."
When he was two or three feet from Harrison, Mays lifted his shirt and reached for his waistband.
Fearing Mays was reaching for a gun, Harrison drew his own .38 Special revolver and shot the other man once in the torso, killing him, according to prosecutors.
Mays was later found to be unarmed. "

How is this even an issue???

thx997303 · Aug 5, 2008

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Doesn't Utah have some sort of law that says you can't sue someone if the shooting was ruled a self defense shooting?

Or maybe that's just in other states. If not that sucks.

scorpioajr · Aug 5, 2008

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thx997303 wrote:

Doesn't Utah have some sort of law that says you can't sue someone if the shooting was ruled a self defense shooting?

Or maybe that's just in other states. If not that sucks.

THX! I thought you abandoned us!

thx997303 · Aug 5, 2008

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Why would I abandon you? Heck, soon as basic's over, I'll be posting from Texas if I have time.

Just wasn't much to post on yesterday, and Saturday I was rabbit hunting.

Shoulda seen the Coyote I missed. Big one, gun malfunctioned. Arrgh.

Was driving down the road, somewhere near Delta, and saw this large beautiful coyote running down the road.

Well, we jumped out of the truck, ran to the back, and I grabbed my father in laws SKS, and he grabbed mine, He missed, and the mag dropped out of his.

So that one got away, but was a fun trip.

scorpioajr · Aug 5, 2008

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thx997303 wrote:

...Shoulda seen the Coyote I missed...

i'll bet - i was out in Wyoming a while back, livin', and they were tellin me those old coyotes make good rugs. :lol: Coyote, good for decor, Bad for horses..

thx997303 · Aug 5, 2008

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He'd a been dead, but for the mag drop. That was a 30 round mag, I got two shots off.

swjr · Aug 5, 2008

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thx997303 wrote:

Doesn't Utah have some sort of law that says you can't sue someone if the shooting was ruled a self defense shooting?

Or maybe that's just in other states. If not that sucks.

THX: I think this is the law you are referring to....

78-11-27. Defense to civil action for damages resulting from commission of crime.

(1) Any person who, with criminal intent, enters the property of
another or commits a crime against the person or property of another may not recover any damages to his person or property except as required by a court order of restitution in a related criminal action, unless that person can prove by clear and convincing evidence that:
(a) his actions did not constitute a felony; and
(b) his culpability was less than the person from whom recovery is
sought.
(2) The provisions of Subsection (1) shall apply to any next-of-kin or heirs of the person if the person is disabled or killed.
(3) Subsections (1) and (2) do not apply if the person committing or attempting to commit the crime has clearly retreated from the criminal activity.
(4) "Clearly retreated" means that the person committing the criminal act has fully, clearly, and immediately ceased all hostile, threatening, violent, or criminal behavior or activity.

I just don't know if he will qualify under this statue... maybe there is another one.

mp3mogul · Aug 5, 2008

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Well, reading everything the way I did, and what the witnesses say, it was self defense.

scorpioajr · Aug 5, 2008

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mp3mogul wrote:

Well, reading everything the way I did, and what the witnesses say, it was self defense.

Do LEOs have to wait to see a gun to identify an immediate threat? Or would a vocal threat combined with a physical gesture, found in this scenario, be sufficient for use of deadly force?

My Q is - Do LE have specific rules for engagement?

Possible self-defense shootng in SL

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