MICHIGAN OPEN CARRY INFO HERE

Furner · Jul 14, 2008

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Can we add to the "methods" to have something to the effect of "Protect our personal protection rights through the prevention of infringing legislation"

Venator · Jul 15, 2008

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Furner wrote:

Can we add to the "methods" to have something to the effect of "Protect our personal protection rights through the prevention of infringing legislation"

You have a goal and method in one. How does this sound? Comments welcome

Objective: Protect our right to self-defense

Method: Staying informed of and acting against infringing legislation.

warlockmatized · Jul 15, 2008

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Venator wrote:

Furner wrote:

Can we add to the "methods" to have something to the effect of "Protect our personal protection rights through the prevention of infringing legislation"

Click to expand...

You have a goal and method in one. How does this sound? Comments welcome

Objective: Protect our right to self-defense

Method: Staying informed of and acting against infringing legislation.

I like it.

ilbob · Jul 15, 2008

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The non-resident issuewas discussed at length somewhere else not too long ago.

IANAL, but IIRC, the consensus eventally was this.

1. You can't have a handgun in MI unless you have acarry permit from some other state. However, there is a bulletin at the MSP web site that says a NR cannot have a handgun in MI unless he has a carry permit from his home state. Based on what the law actually says, it appears the bulletin is not quite correct. Presumably, a NR with some kind of permit from some other statecould OC, but there may be other issues like the idiotic school zone prohibitions.

2. You can't conceal carry unless you have a carry permit from your HOME state.

Venator · Jul 15, 2008

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ilbob wrote:

The non-resident issuewas discussed at length somewhere else not too long ago.

IANAL, but IIRC, the consensus eventally was this.

1. You can't have a handgun in MI unless you have acarry permit from some other state. However, there is a bulletin at the MSP web site that says a NR cannot have a handgun in MI unless he has a carry permit from his home state. Based on what the law actually says, it appears the bulletin is not quite correct. Presumably, a NR with some kind of permit from some other statecould OC, but there may be other issues like the idiotic school zone prohibitions.

2. You can't conceal carry unless you have a carry permit from your HOME state.

This is the reason you can't have a handgun in Michigan if you don't have a CPL. The safety requirement is now outlawed and it will be interesting to see what happens in this regard.

FROM MSP:

Michigan law requires that a person obtain a License to Purchase a pistol (MCL 28.422) before possessing a pistol in this state. Once a person buys a pistol with a License to Purchase, it must be safety inspected (MCL 28.429). Only residents of Michigan are eligible for licenses and safety inspections. Because a non-resident cannot satisfy those requirements they cannot lawfully possess a pistol here (for any purpose).

Exceptions to those requirements are found in MCL 28.432. One of those exceptions is for persons licensed by their state of residence to carry a concealed pistol.

As for the home state issue, issue. See this. This recent law trumps older laws.

THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)

Act 328 of 1931 750.231a Exceptions to § 750.227(2); definitions.

Sec. 231a. (1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:

(a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in non conformance with a restriction appearing on the license.

(b) To the regular and ordinary transportation of pistols as merchandise by an authorized agent of a person licensed to manufacture firearms.

(c) To a person carrying an antique firearm as defined in subsection (2), completely unloaded in a closed case or container designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of a vehicle.

(d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.

(e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.

(2) As used in this section:

(a) "Antique firearm" means either of the following:

(i) A firearm not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898, including a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica of such a firearm, whether actually manufactured before or after 1898.

(ii) A firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

(b) "Lawful purpose" includes the following:

(i) While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area.

(ii) While transporting a pistol en route to or from his or her home or place of business and place of repair.

(iii) While moving goods from 1 place of abode or business to another place of abode or business.

(iv) While transporting a licensed pistol en route to or from a law enforcement agency for the purpose of having a safety inspection performed on the pistol as is required by section 9 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.429, or for the purpose of having a law enforcement official take possession of the weapon.

(v) While en route to or from his or her abode or place of business and a gun show or places of purchase or sale.

(vi) While en route to or from his or her abode to a public shooting facility or public land where discharge of firearms is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.

(vii) While en route to or from his or her abode to a private property location where the pistol is to be used as is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.

History: Add. 1964, Act 215, Eff. Aug. 28, 1964 ;-- Am. 1973, Act 191, Eff. Mar. 29, 1974 ;-- Am. 1974, Act 55, Imd. Eff. Apr. 1, 1974 ;-- Am. 1978, Act 280, Imd. Eff. July 6, 1978 ;-- Am. 2002, Act 82, Imd. Eff. Mar. 26, 2002

Venator · Jul 16, 2008

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Posted this on the info thread:

Quotes:

In regards to the lawful open carry of a handgun:

Burton Police Chief John Benthall said "I have researched this every way I can and I cannot find any law against it."[/b] From the Flint Journal; 6/14/08

Bronson · Jul 16, 2008

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I heard back from the Battle Creek police chief and he said that B.C. has no official position on it, they just follow state law. But he advised me that if a citizen calls to report a person with a gun thePDis required to investigate todetermin the intent of that person.

Bronson

Furner · Jul 17, 2008

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Bronson wrote:

I heard back from the Battle Creek police chief and he said that B.C. has no official position on it, they just follow state law. But he advised me that if a citizen calls to report a person with a gun thePDis required to investigate todetermin the intent of that person.

Bronson

Thats bullshit. If someone calls the police and reports someone smoking on the sidewalk, are they required to investigate it to make sure it is a cigarette and not illegal drugs?
But at least it is good to hear that they dont have some belief that they can enforce illegal laws.

azebolsky · Jul 25, 2008

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Have you had any issues with this as of yet though? I'm wondering if I can do my grocery shopping at Wal-mart and Meijers with OC, or if I should continue to buy oversized t-shirts to make use of my CCW. Curious as to your experiences with BCPD/EPD.

*S*

Venator · Jul 25, 2008

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azebolsky wrote:

Have you had any issues with this as of yet though? I'm wondering if I can do my grocery shopping at Wal-mart and Meijers with OC, or if I should continue to buy oversized t-shirts to make use of my CCW. Curious as to your experiences with BCPD/EPD.

*S*

Welcome. If you have read the Info page at the top of the forum you will realize how many people are now OCing everyday in Michigan. The info page addresses all of your concerns and questions. You can also see the LIST YOUR EXPERIENCES here thread which shows that our members have OCed in over 45 cities in Michigan.

Deciding to OC is a choice and with choice comes responsibility. OC is legal in Michigan of that fact there is no longer any question. But private property like stores can ban weapons, or green T-shirts, or monkeys, so if they ask you to leave you must do so or face trespassing charges.

Our members find that mostof the time people don't notice you OCing and if they do they don't seem to care. Our members have OCed for thousands of hours over the last 3 years or so, and have had only a couple of encounters with LEO's, with no arrests known.

So start reading and welcome again.

PS If you plan on sticing around, please indicate Michigan under your screen name this adds to our members numbers. Thanks.

warlockmatized · Jul 25, 2008

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Venator wrote:

azebolsky wrote:

Have you had any issues with this as of yet though? I'm wondering if I can do my grocery shopping at Wal-mart and Meijers with OC, or if I should continue to buy oversized t-shirts to make use of my CCW. Curious as to your experiences with BCPD/EPD.

*S*

Click to expand...

SNIP:

PS If you plan on sticing around, please indicate Michigan under your screen name this adds to our members numbers. Thanks.

In order to be able to select Michigan as your state you must FIRST choose USA as your country

Welcome to the forum.

azebolsky · Jul 25, 2008

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Thanks both of ya's. Learning quite a bit today it seems.

<-----Venat, fixed it for ya.

*S*

Greggy_D · Jul 29, 2008

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.

Butlerite · Jul 31, 2008

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One of the things that I just read on MSPs website is that if you are stopped by a LEO (if carrying concealed or an out-of-stater), you are required to show your CPL as well as your gov't ID :

http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1591_3503_4654-10941--,00.html

[size="-1"][font="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"][font="Arial, Helvetica"]"Upon request, an individual licensed to carry a concealed pistol shall show bothof the following to a police officer:[/font][/font][/size]
[size="-1"][font="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"]

[font="Arial, Helvetica"]His or her license to carry a concealed pistol[/font] - [font="Arial, Helvetica"]His or her driver license or personal identification card[/font]

[/font][/size]
Kinda makes it impossible to "sterile carry." :shock:

Edit: Punctuation

dougwg · Jul 31, 2008

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Only if they are carrying concealed must they show ID

If open carried, you may do so "sterile".

For those that don't know "sterile carry" is carrying a sidearm without carrying personal ID or your CPL.

Venator · Jul 31, 2008

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dougwg wrote:

Only if they are carrying concealed must they show ID

If open carried, you may do so "sterile".

For those that don't know "sterile carry" is carrying a sidearm without carrying personal ID or your CPL.

Doug, do you know anyone that goes sterile?

dougwg · Jul 31, 2008

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Yes, as a matter of fact I do!

asforme · Jul 31, 2008

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That was my understanding. Yes it's illegal for an out-of-stater to carry without a CPL because it is illegal for them to possess without a CPL. But the officer must have reasonable suspicion that the person is a non-resident before they can request ID. And since there is no requirement to carry ID, you cannot be forced to prove your innocence (residency).

Am I correct in this line of thinking?

dougwg · Jul 31, 2008

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I'm not sure if you're right or not, but that sure is clever thinking on your part.

DanM · Jul 31, 2008

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asforme wrote:

That was my understanding. Yes it's illegal for an out-of-stater to carry without a CPL because it is illegal for them to possess without a CPL. But the officer must have reasonable suspicion that the person is a non-resident before they can request ID. And since there is no requirement to carry ID, you cannot be forced to prove your innocence (residency).

Am I correct in this line of thinking?

An officer doesn't have to have any suspicion or justification whatsoever to lawfully request any information or identificationfrom you. The key word is "request". Police are absolutely lawfully entitled to approach you and start talking,ask questions, and ask you to do things. If you comply with the requests,it is a consensual stop and is lawful. Also, if you are driving or crossing an international border you must comply with requests for identification.

That being said, you understand otherwise you have the right to decline to verbally interact with the officer, ask if youare being detained, and ask if you are free to go, correct? Without RS or PC, they cannot lawfully detain orarrest you, or search youunless you give consent.

Remember, you may be arrested and searched anyway. But without RS or PC and without your consent to be searched, an arrest/search is unlawful, any charges would likely be dismissed, and you would probably have the basis for a lawsuit with a nice settlement.

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