imported post
Venator wrote:
First I have been OCing for more years than many on this site of lived on this earth.
I OC a vast majority of the time 24/7 and dine with large and small goups of fellow OCers regularly. Do we just march in enmasse and take over a section of the establishment - no! Do we make recommendations as to places that one or two of us have eaten before while OCing - yes. No I ask permission first - absolutely not.
Now to address some points with facts (not opinion or feelings):
getting the law on your side FIRST - the law is already on my side! I cannot and will not attempt to educate in advance each and every LEO I might happen to meet.
Dickson City shouldn't have happened - the problem did not lie with the restaurant or staff but with the manner in which it was handled by LE. I will not debate this beyond this statement until after all law suits related are over. Bluntly though, sir, you do not know of what you speak.
but a group is something to call the cops on - let's substitute motor cycle riders or people in Arab clothing (see the fallacy)for other citizens doing nothing wrong except in the imagination of a very few. Yes I said a very few. In the many, many dinners I have attended, their has never once been a problem! Actually major problems are extremely rare but do admittedly garner a lot of press.
required to have permission - decided not true in Virginia. To have a parade or picket or have speeches and hold banners may require a permit or permission under some circumstances but not to eat as a group, have a picnic or hold a public or private meeting especially while maintaining good order.
participate in a group march, or most other activist activities, wouldn't you call ahead to let people know you would be there? - most definitely not! When meeting with public active activism (Lobby Day at our General Assembly, gathering at MMM demonstrations etc) it would be counter productive/bad tatics to forwarn/forarm the opposition.
feel really horrible taking advantage of the kindness of a restaurant - kindness? They are operating a business and we are spending 200-300-400 or more dollars there! Do you really think that an owner or manager is being "kind" to you when he gives you"permission" to spend your money there? :shock:
I'd gladly give up a dinner at my favorite restaurant while in an OC group if it meant that we avoided another Dickson City. Only through this type of reaction (though it was not of their choosing) will some wrongs be corrected. The very best way to avoid conflict in life is to do nothing. I am tired of political correctness, attempts to make everybody happy and of "if it only saves one" at the expense of many.
just impolite - Sir, I admit that I take umbrage at your inference that I am impolite for not doing so. I sincerely doubt that there is anyone more deeply commited to furthering this cause in the State of Virginia than I am nor anyone more polite - granted others may spend more time and/or be more effective than I.
more likely to get you into confrontations - you mean like OK Corral, and Dodge City et al predictions. In other words, if we don't conduct ourselves by someone else's standards we'll get into trouble.....PLEASE! This is from the playbook of the MMM.
I fear that if many had your "tip-toe" approach we will be asking the National Police for permission to eat out on alternate Tuesdays only and then sans our defensive tools. Sincerely, I am not trying to be insulting but you must grant me one small opinion.
Question sir - are you planning on attending the multi-state meet-up or do you just want to be sure that everything has been done to assure the comfort of others. I somehow doubt the former - if the latter, don't bother we are all big boys and girls.
Yata hey
PS - We cannot carry concealed in anyplace that serves alcohol for on premises consumption in Virginia. If we are to carry, it must be openly to be legal. The state and the king require it.
Edited to add Post Script
Venator wrote:
No argument sir, just the facts - that means no opinions or feelings.
First I have been OCing for more years than many on this site of lived on this earth.
I OC a vast majority of the time 24/7 and dine with large and small goups of fellow OCers regularly. Do we just march in enmasse and take over a section of the establishment - no! Do we make recommendations as to places that one or two of us have eaten before while OCing - yes. No I ask permission first - absolutely not.
Now to address some points with facts (not opinion or feelings):
getting the law on your side FIRST - the law is already on my side! I cannot and will not attempt to educate in advance each and every LEO I might happen to meet.
Dickson City shouldn't have happened - the problem did not lie with the restaurant or staff but with the manner in which it was handled by LE. I will not debate this beyond this statement until after all law suits related are over. Bluntly though, sir, you do not know of what you speak.
but a group is something to call the cops on - let's substitute motor cycle riders or people in Arab clothing (see the fallacy)for other citizens doing nothing wrong except in the imagination of a very few. Yes I said a very few. In the many, many dinners I have attended, their has never once been a problem! Actually major problems are extremely rare but do admittedly garner a lot of press.
required to have permission - decided not true in Virginia. To have a parade or picket or have speeches and hold banners may require a permit or permission under some circumstances but not to eat as a group, have a picnic or hold a public or private meeting especially while maintaining good order.
participate in a group march, or most other activist activities, wouldn't you call ahead to let people know you would be there? - most definitely not! When meeting with public active activism (Lobby Day at our General Assembly, gathering at MMM demonstrations etc) it would be counter productive/bad tatics to forwarn/forarm the opposition.
feel really horrible taking advantage of the kindness of a restaurant - kindness? They are operating a business and we are spending 200-300-400 or more dollars there! Do you really think that an owner or manager is being "kind" to you when he gives you"permission" to spend your money there? :shock:
I'd gladly give up a dinner at my favorite restaurant while in an OC group if it meant that we avoided another Dickson City. Only through this type of reaction (though it was not of their choosing) will some wrongs be corrected. The very best way to avoid conflict in life is to do nothing. I am tired of political correctness, attempts to make everybody happy and of "if it only saves one" at the expense of many.
just impolite - Sir, I admit that I take umbrage at your inference that I am impolite for not doing so. I sincerely doubt that there is anyone more deeply commited to furthering this cause in the State of Virginia than I am nor anyone more polite - granted others may spend more time and/or be more effective than I.
more likely to get you into confrontations - you mean like OK Corral, and Dodge City et al predictions. In other words, if we don't conduct ourselves by someone else's standards we'll get into trouble.....PLEASE! This is from the playbook of the MMM.
I fear that if many had your "tip-toe" approach we will be asking the National Police for permission to eat out on alternate Tuesdays only and then sans our defensive tools. Sincerely, I am not trying to be insulting but you must grant me one small opinion.
Question sir - are you planning on attending the multi-state meet-up or do you just want to be sure that everything has been done to assure the comfort of others. I somehow doubt the former - if the latter, don't bother we are all big boys and girls.
Yata hey
PS - We cannot carry concealed in anyplace that serves alcohol for on premises consumption in Virginia. If we are to carry, it must be openly to be legal. The state and the king require it.
Edited to add Post Script
