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Thread: LEO breaks OC'ers driver's license in half (Ohio)

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    Allegedly, of course.



    http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?t=21257


    On Saturday July 5, 2008 at approximately 20:30, my daughter, (redacted), and myself pulled into Netty's Ice Cream Shop at 4568 Woodville Road in Northwood, Ohio for an ice cream cone for her birthday. We were riding my motorcycle for the evening. When we arrived at Netty's, there was a short line so we stood in line for a few minutes before we were served. After receiving our ice cream cones, we returned to my motorcycle and began having a conversation.

    At about 20:40, a Northwood Police car came flying into the parking lot. The officer jumped out of his patrol car and walked over to a man wearing a gray shirt, baseball cap, and blue jeans. The officer and the man in plain clothes had a short conversation and then proceeded to approach me and my daughter. I told the police officer that I held a CHL and was carrying my gun. Both men then identified themselves as Northwood police officers. The uniformed police officer then told me that he didn't want to see my concealed handgun license (CHL) but wanted my drivers license. I gave them my identification. The off-duty officer (ODO) stated that he was concerned that I was open carrying a gun with children in the area, referring to his children that were with him. I then asked him if his children had ever seen his gun since he was a Northwood police officer. He never answered my question. Both officers then proceeded to tell me that my gun had to be concealed. A "spirited" conversation then ensued about the law on concealed carry weapons. I stated that open carry was legal and stated dates and cases to prove my knowledge of the concealed carry laws. The ODO stated that I was wrong and that it was not legal. The uniformed officer then stated that open carry was illegal. I began to repeat myself to the uniformed officer when a third officer arrived and the ODO left.

    The uniformed officer that had arrived stated that open carry was illegal. I told him that I had spoken with the Ohio Highway Patrol (OHP) and that they stated that open-carry was legal. He then stated that the OHP lied to me. He then told me that the Northwood Police Department had me on videotape at Speedway on Woodville Road in Northwood, Ohio, carrying open and that I was impersonating a police officer. This particular Speedway is not posted regarding carrying a concealed weapon on premise. I then asked him if I looked like a police officer since I have over 30 tattoos and multiple piercings over my body. He agreed and stated that I didn't look like a police officer. I also stated that I didn't have to wear a uniform to carry a gun and that I had the documentation to prove my information was correct but the officer wasn't interested in seeing the documents. He also stated that if he arrived at a call and saw me, because of my appearance, that I would be the first person he would take down. He continued threatening me by stating that because I didn't wear a uniform I would get shot because of my appearance. As our conversation continued the officer stated that if he arrived at the company I patrol in the area (redacted) and had seen me with a gun he would "pop" me because of my appearance. The officers said that they would let this instance slide this time but if it happened one more time that they would arrest me and let the judge decide who was right. I asked the officers on what grounds would they arrest me on and neither officer could answer my question.

    The officer that had my ID gave it back to me broken. When I told him that it was a new ID and that he had broken it in two, he shrugged his shoulders and said oh well. The officers then turned and went back to their cars and left.

    The following night, I returned to Speedway and the young girl at the counter stated that the officers were there asking if she was scared of me and the fact that I carry a weapon in the open and her reply was that she felt safer with me around because I stop in every night to check on her at various hours of the night and that was more than the police department has been doing for her.

    This is not the first time The Northwood Police Department police officers have behaved this way towards me. There have been several encounters over the last three years involving the same issues. Each encounter has increased with hostility.
    IMO, the officers knew from the get-go that OC was legal. Else they would have arrested him.Their goal was to simplyharass him.

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    Yet another good reason to audio record your traffic stop.

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    It's time for the Willowick treatment for these Northwood officers and their Chief.

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    Regular Member reefteach's Avatar
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    OFCC is on it:

    http://www.ohioccw.org/content/view/4026/83/


    Update: Brian Ballenger, law director for Northwood, has contacted OFCC. He said he is well aware of the fact that open carry is legal and wants to work with us to resolve this incident. As he is out of state all of next week, we agreed to pick this up the following week after he gets back.



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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Sheriff wrote:
    Jacksnack wrote:
    We now have an update..... "......On the issue of the broken driver's license, his information was that the license was "old and crumbly" and had been broken inadvertently by the officer. My information, with supporting photos of the license in question, is contrary to that claim......"
    Boy, ohh boy! They seem to be in CYOA mode now. Shameful!

    Still and all, chalk this one up for the good guys. :celebrate
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Sheriff wrote:
    Jacksnack wrote:
    We now have an update..... "......On the issue of the broken driver's license, his information was that the license was "old and crumbly" and had been broken inadvertently by the officer. My information, with supporting photos of the license in question, is contrary to that claim......"
    Boy, ohh boy! They seem to be in CYOA mode now. Shameful!

    Nothing's better than to see the other side "has each other's backs"... and knives poised to plunge into them. I like to see bad liars try to keep five stories straight while under oath...
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    geez -

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    So the Law director is letting this slide and nothing will be done?

    Moon Doggie

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    Regular Member dbc3804's Avatar
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    I've been shifting over to this link every few days just to check on progress.

    http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?t=21257

    Things got real quiet for a while, but thenDaniel the Site Administrator received a letter from the Chief of Police informing him that nothing the officers did was improper, that the Ohio Drivers Licenses had a flaw that caused them to break, and that the internal investigation was closed.

    They are having an OC get-together on Sept. 20 at noon where they will take a stroll through the park, (beside the Police station), have lunch a a local restaurant that they already have confirmed will welcome them, and then possibliy visit a local gun store.

    The only downer for the whole thing was the original ice cream store that was the site of the encounter has told them that they would not be welcome there. Bummer.

    I do wish it wasn't so far away. I'd like to be there with them.

    Danny

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    dbc3804 wrote:
    I've been shifting over to this link every few days just to check on progress.

    http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?t=21257

    Things got real quiet for a while, but thenDaniel the Site Administrator received a letter from the Chief of Police informing him that nothing the officers did was improper, that the Ohio Drivers Licenses had a flaw that caused them to break, and that the internal investigation was closed.

    They are having an OC get-together on Sept. 20 at noon where they will take a stroll through the park, (beside the Police station), have lunch a a local restaurant that they already have confirmed will welcome them, and then possibliy visit a local gun store.

    The only downer for the whole thing was the original ice cream store that was the site of the encounter has told them that they would not be welcome there. Bummer.

    I do wish it wasn't so far away. I'd like to be there with them.

    Danny
    A thread has been started on the OC gathering:


    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum43/15654.html







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    Regular Member ADulay's Avatar
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    "The following night, I returned to Speedway and the young girl at the counter stated that the officers were there asking if she was scared of me and the fact that I carry a weapon in the open and her reply was that she felt safer with me around because I stop in every night to check on her at various hours of the night and that was more than the police department has been doing for her."

    I would have loved to seen the look on the officer's faces with that perfect reply.

    As a former officer I'm finding a lot of the stories I read on this forum just incredible. I used to run into some real jerks when I was on my motorcycle until I informed them of my "status" at the time.

    You done good and I look forward to OC in Ohio when I come up to visit my brother in the coming months.

    AD



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    Sheriff wrote:
    ADulay wrote:
    As a former officer I'm finding a lot of the stories I read on this forum just incredible.
    As a former officer, I don't.

    Doesn't take but 1% to 2% of a department to tarnish the image for all.
    The "it's just 1%!" excuse has always been a bad cop-out (pardon the pun). For the citizen being detained, handcuffed, searched without warrant or consent, verbally harassed, physically intimidated, and possibly even threatened, it doesn't matter than 99 other cops wouldn't do the same.

    For that citizen, it's 100% of the cops he's dealing with at that time. Given how seldom average citizens have contacts with LE, that could very well be 100% of their lifetime interaction with police. Nothing is "routine" about it to the citizen.


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    Sheriff wrote:
    KBCraig wrote:
    The "it's just 1%!" excuse has always been a bad cop-out (pardon the pun). For the citizen being detained, handcuffed, searched without warrant or consent, verbally harassed, physically intimidated, and possibly even threatened, it doesn't matter than 99 other cops wouldn't do the same.

    For that citizen, it's 100% of the cops he's dealing with at that time. Given how seldom average citizens have contacts with LE, that could very well be 100% of their lifetime interaction with police. Nothing is "routine" about it to the citizen.
    Yes, I certainly understand this.... and agree with you.

    Believe it or not, after having been a sworn deputy sheriff for almost 3 decades, I have been on the receiving end of what you just mentioned above back in 1997 myself. But the other officers on the department apologized to me for the rookie being a total and absolute moron. I had to sue the rookie and his sergeant to clear my namein public. In lessening his own liability, the police chief publicly refused to admit his moron rookie had made any mistakes. He stood by the false arrest in the media. As soon as the judge set a definite jury trial date for my lawsuits against them, they were knocking on the door wanting to settle out of court, they didn't want their dirty laundry hung out for the public to see. And the sergeant on duty was eventually terminated.
    I hope you didn't settle.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    Can you imagine the response (that may yet come) from the cop apologists? There is weeks of spinning to be done on your personal story. I understand your animus a bit.

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    Sheriff wrote:
    Deanimator wrote:
    I hope you didn't settle.
    Yes, I did. For two reasons --

    1) the attorney I had hired to represent me in the lawsuits screwed them up pretty badly by missing deadlines, and other miscellaneous screwups. I had to go out and hire a second attorney to clean up the mess she made. (IMHO, she packed up and left town after being intimidated by the cops she was suing. They told her their would never be a working relationship between the police department and her in the future since she had chosen to sue them on my behalf)

    and

    2) it was never about money in the first place, I wanted to clear my name in public. After my being a sworn deputy sheriff for decades at the time, and this while the rookie was still in diapers and sucking a pacifier none the less, he was trying to make the public think I was one of the bad apples out here, a bad cop. This seemed much easier to him than simply admitting he was a moron and had made a mistake.

    As I said above, they offered to settle because we had the dirty laundry to hang out for all to see. Just a very few examples were --

    a) my identity was confirmed 4 hours before the rookie, in swearing to the warrants,told the magistrate that he was not successful incontacting my sheriff. My sheriff and captain would have testified that the rookie was willfully and maliciously lying to the magistrate.

    b)a subpoena was issued for 911 tapes to prove my sheriff had indeed identified me in a timely fashion, the tapes were then "accidentally destroyed" and could not be produced after the subpoena was acknowledged by the 911 center director. We had evidence to prove that a 911 employee was assigned to cut the tapes into pieces no longer than 1 inch. They thought we would never find out about the intentional destruction.

    c) the sergeant on duty was my brother-in-law, and he knew I was a sworn deputy sheriff, he was later terminated as I said above.

    d) the rookie entered my home under false pretenses presented to my wife, and searched it without probable cause or a warrant; he told my wife he had my permission to view police badge and police patch collections. Two way radios in my home belonging to me personally were confiscated, warrants were issued because they looked like police radios so they must be police raidos, and they therefore had to be stolen since they looked like official police radios. Can you say "Keystone Cops" three times real fast?

    e) after the rookie realized he had made a mistake, he fabricated other charges to add to the package against me. All of them were obviously tossed out of court before trial. One such charge was 'sawed off shotgun". He later claimed he measured it wrong. Another was "burglary tools" based upon my department issued slim-jims.

    f) the rookie's department attempted to coerce my sheriff into denying I was a sowrn deputy sheriff. My sheriffrefused to lie for them.

    g) the rookie tolda felow officerthat my infamous arrest was going to land him a promotion that he had so desperately been seeking.

    h) the day after my arrest, another local sheriff told the rookie he had made a mistake and better start cleaning it up real quick. The rookie toldthis sheriffhe was going to prosecute me and was going to get a conviction.

    i) In the dark, the rookie left my 4-year-old daughter in my car with a loaded shotgun for 45 minutes on a very busy 4 lane highway. His claim was he was at all times watching her and she was never in any danger. But the reason for the traffic stop was very darkly tinted windows on my car. He could not see into the car to have had her under observation at all times. Suppose my daughter had stepped out of the car and been run over?

    j) rookie was presented with a valid Virginia State Police exemption certificate for the windows. He confiscated the certificate, called it a forgery, and stated he would be placing criminal felony charges for it too. Needless to say, this blew up in his face too. But when returned to me the certificate had a big chunk torn out of it.

    ...... trust me,the list goes on and on! I should not have settled.
    Jeebus H Christ this sounds like a BAD TV Show

    But what the hell was going on that your Brother In Law turned on you and wouldn't tell them that you were a Deputy ?

    And how did it go from a Traffic Stop for Tinted Windows to the Rookie illegally searching your house while you and your 4 year old Daughter were in custody or Semi Custody?

    Sounds like they had it in for you for some reason and I am glad you came out on top

    I bet the Holidays are Peachy with your Ex Cop Brother in Law and the Family all gathered.

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    Well, we know that it doesn't take much to give a single group a bad name. There are 'bad' cops, there are a lot of really good ones.. and there are a lot out there who are ignorant of the law concerning OC and CC, you just have to take every encounter individually while trying to educate the masses at the same time...

    I worked closely with all different branches of LE while driving tow trucks in CA. Very interesting to say the least.. I saw a lot of good work, a lot of average and some very egotistical officers who thought they had super powers..

    I have a few good friends on the force.. even some of them have that 'cop' aura 24/7, some of it I chalk up to situational awareness.. some of it is puffed out chest, crime fighting super duper bada##es.. which can be entertaining..

    But in comment on this thread, I have seen firsthand officers doing things that were not exactly kosher just because of the "Whos gonna do anything about it?" attitude.

    J

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    Ahhhh the ole running against the incumbent Sheriff story :?

    I have seen that happen in my County in the late 70's to mid 80's and then when the incumbent wins, he fires the guy that ran against him or if the challenger wins he fires all the old Deputies that worked for the incumbent, it's a sad state of affairs most times in the Sheriff Dept.

    I will admit, the Tuscarawas County Sheriff is Pro gun and a damn good Sheriff in my book and I don't say that much and I will vote for him everytime he runs for Sheriff

    Politics and Police work combined are EVIL and SOME Cops actually think they are the POTUS and can do any damn thing they want, those are the cops that need "Tuned Up" and set straight!

    Any update on the Driver License breaking Cops ?

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    2) it was never about money in the first place, I wanted to clear my name in public. After my being a sworn deputy sheriff for decades at the time, and this while the rookie was still in diapers and sucking a pacifier none the less, he was trying to make the public think I was one of the bad apples out here, a bad cop. This seemed much easier to him than simply admitting he was a moron and had made a mistake.
    It wasn't about money FOR YOU...but you know it's ALWAYS about money for them. At least it's now resolved to your satisfaction.

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    Sheriff wrote:
    cREbralFIX wrote:
    ...but you know it's ALWAYS about money for them.

    Absolutely. A city or county will spend $150,000 defending their wrongful actions before they will even think about settling out of court with compensation to a plaintiff being nothing more than a public apology. They're spending taxpayer's money to make themselves lood good and proper, they don't care.
    Thats' why in the case of official oppression type cases, I would NEVER settle, and would make sure my legal representation knew that going in. If you violate my rights, I want it IN WRITING that you did. There isn't going to be "no admission of fault" crap. You don't need to admit it. I've got a legal document that says YOU ARE AT FAULT. And if you violate my rights, I'll DIE before I agree not to talk about what you did and what a degenerate piece of sub-human filth you are and how much money I yanked out of you. I'll make you as famous as Tony Abbate. I'll bet you don't enjoy the notoriety either.

    Want to settle? Well MAYBE if you agree to do it yakuza style. What the hell, you didn't need the tip of your little finger and it'll look good in lucite on my computer desk...
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    It doesn't matter if only 1 in 100 is truly bad if the other 99 don't care about lying and otherwise covering for their 'fellow brother.' Indeed, one could say that those who willingly shield evil commit an even greater evil themselves.

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