DanM
Regular Member
imported post
I'm a resident of Auburn Hills, and one of their ordinances is questionable in regard to respecting lawful open carry. I'll let the following email trail currently between myself and city officials fill in detail. I am wondering if they respond that they will enforce this ordinance, are there pro bono attorneys whom I can contact to engage Auburn Hills along with me.
Email trail:
ViewFrom Dan* , Thursday, July 10, 2008
To:ttanghe@auburnhills.org
Cc:pauger@auburnhills.org; jbacon@secrestwardle.com
I am sincerely thankful for your kind and prompt response, Mr. Tanghe. To be clear, as well as beinga question from me as an individual resident of Auburn Hills, it is a question on behalf of many others as well. Many law-abiding folks, including myself, respect our cities, our law-makers and law-enforcers, and our fellow citizens as much as we want our individual rights to be respected. Both residents (like myself)and non-residents need to knowwhat to expect when they are in Auburn Hills. And if this helps clarify or improve any ambiguity or problem inAuburn Hills ordinances, then that's great too.
I remain in touch with organizations whose members share information about, protect, and exercise the right to lawful open carry. While I'm not a member or activist, I do support their position and contribute as I am wont to do. I will do Auburn Hills the courtesy of working to disseminate the information you provide, so please rest assured that your efforts on this issue will be appreciated by a wider public than just myself.
Respectfully,
Dan M*
248-***-****
----- Original Message ----
From: "Tanghe, Tom" <ttanghe@auburnhills.org>
To: Dan M* <dan*@*.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:07:49 AM
Subject: RE: Open carry of handgun in Auburn Hills
No problem. You aren't the first. I will make sure that I talk to Mr. Auger about your issue and one of us will get back to you shortly.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan*[mailto:dan*@*.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 10:32 PM
To: Tanghe, Tom
Cc: jbacon@secrestwardle.com; Auger, Peter
Subject: Re: Open carry of handgun in Auburn Hills
Mr. Tanghe,
I apologize for misspelling your name.
Regards,
Dan
----- Original Message ----
From: Dan*<dan*@*.com>
To: Peter Auger <pauger@auburnhills.org>; Thomas Tange <ttanghe@auburnhills.org>
Cc: jbacon@secrestwardle.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2008 1:10:36 PM
Subject: Fw: Open carry of handgun in Auburn Hills
Mr. Auger and Mr. Tange,
I spoke a few weeks ago with Ms. Bacon, the city's prosecutor,about the matter below. She tried to be as helpful as she could be, but shewasn't certain.She saidshe would need an OK from the city to spend time to review and respond.
Would your office be the one to approve her review and response? If so, I request that you please do so. I am a resident of Auburn Hills, but I am currently confused as to whether or not this would be enforced against a citizen lawfully openly carrying a handgun in a holster. Attached is general information pertaining to this subject and a Michigan State Police "Legal Update", which might be helpful for your and Ms. Bacon'sreview.
Respectfully,
Dan M*
248-***-****
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Dan*<dan*@*.com>
To: jbacon@secrestwardle.com; bkudla@secrestwardle.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 12:47:27 PM
Subject: Open carry of handgun in Auburn Hills
Dear Ms. Bacon and Ms. Kudla,
Open carry of a handgun in a holster is not prohibited
in Michigan, as long as there is not unlawful intent.
Generally, city ordinances prohibiting such conduct
are invalid, unless they are specifically authorized
by state law.
The City of Auburn Hills has in its ordinances Sec.
46-212, "Hunting within city", which states:
"No person shall hunt nor shall any person carry, for
the purpose of hunting, firearms within the city. Any
person carrying a firearm within the city limits,
without a permit therefor, shall be deemed to be
hunting. This section shall not apply to a person
carrying an unloaded rifle, shotgun or pistol while
travelling through or from the city for the purpose of
hunting without the city limits."
For persons openly carrying a loaded handgun in a
holster for any lawful purpose, including preparedness
for self-defense, this ordinance plainly states that
all such persons "without a permit" are assumed,
entirely, to be hunting. Of course, then they would
be in violation of the ordinance prohibiting hunting.
Is this ordinance enforceable against a person openly
carrying a loaded handgun in a holster solely with
lawful intent, such as preparedness for self-defense,
in Auburn Hills? If not, are there any other Auburn
Hills ordinances under which your office would
prosecute such an act as a criminal act?
Respectfully,
Dan M*
248-***-****
I'm a resident of Auburn Hills, and one of their ordinances is questionable in regard to respecting lawful open carry. I'll let the following email trail currently between myself and city officials fill in detail. I am wondering if they respond that they will enforce this ordinance, are there pro bono attorneys whom I can contact to engage Auburn Hills along with me.
Email trail:
ViewFrom Dan* , Thursday, July 10, 2008
To:ttanghe@auburnhills.org
Cc:pauger@auburnhills.org; jbacon@secrestwardle.com
I am sincerely thankful for your kind and prompt response, Mr. Tanghe. To be clear, as well as beinga question from me as an individual resident of Auburn Hills, it is a question on behalf of many others as well. Many law-abiding folks, including myself, respect our cities, our law-makers and law-enforcers, and our fellow citizens as much as we want our individual rights to be respected. Both residents (like myself)and non-residents need to knowwhat to expect when they are in Auburn Hills. And if this helps clarify or improve any ambiguity or problem inAuburn Hills ordinances, then that's great too.
I remain in touch with organizations whose members share information about, protect, and exercise the right to lawful open carry. While I'm not a member or activist, I do support their position and contribute as I am wont to do. I will do Auburn Hills the courtesy of working to disseminate the information you provide, so please rest assured that your efforts on this issue will be appreciated by a wider public than just myself.
Respectfully,
Dan M*
248-***-****
----- Original Message ----
From: "Tanghe, Tom" <ttanghe@auburnhills.org>
To: Dan M* <dan*@*.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:07:49 AM
Subject: RE: Open carry of handgun in Auburn Hills
No problem. You aren't the first. I will make sure that I talk to Mr. Auger about your issue and one of us will get back to you shortly.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan*[mailto:dan*@*.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 10:32 PM
To: Tanghe, Tom
Cc: jbacon@secrestwardle.com; Auger, Peter
Subject: Re: Open carry of handgun in Auburn Hills
Mr. Tanghe,
I apologize for misspelling your name.
Regards,
Dan
----- Original Message ----
From: Dan*<dan*@*.com>
To: Peter Auger <pauger@auburnhills.org>; Thomas Tange <ttanghe@auburnhills.org>
Cc: jbacon@secrestwardle.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2008 1:10:36 PM
Subject: Fw: Open carry of handgun in Auburn Hills
Mr. Auger and Mr. Tange,
I spoke a few weeks ago with Ms. Bacon, the city's prosecutor,about the matter below. She tried to be as helpful as she could be, but shewasn't certain.She saidshe would need an OK from the city to spend time to review and respond.
Would your office be the one to approve her review and response? If so, I request that you please do so. I am a resident of Auburn Hills, but I am currently confused as to whether or not this would be enforced against a citizen lawfully openly carrying a handgun in a holster. Attached is general information pertaining to this subject and a Michigan State Police "Legal Update", which might be helpful for your and Ms. Bacon'sreview.
Respectfully,
Dan M*
248-***-****
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Dan*<dan*@*.com>
To: jbacon@secrestwardle.com; bkudla@secrestwardle.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 12:47:27 PM
Subject: Open carry of handgun in Auburn Hills
Dear Ms. Bacon and Ms. Kudla,
Open carry of a handgun in a holster is not prohibited
in Michigan, as long as there is not unlawful intent.
Generally, city ordinances prohibiting such conduct
are invalid, unless they are specifically authorized
by state law.
The City of Auburn Hills has in its ordinances Sec.
46-212, "Hunting within city", which states:
"No person shall hunt nor shall any person carry, for
the purpose of hunting, firearms within the city. Any
person carrying a firearm within the city limits,
without a permit therefor, shall be deemed to be
hunting. This section shall not apply to a person
carrying an unloaded rifle, shotgun or pistol while
travelling through or from the city for the purpose of
hunting without the city limits."
For persons openly carrying a loaded handgun in a
holster for any lawful purpose, including preparedness
for self-defense, this ordinance plainly states that
all such persons "without a permit" are assumed,
entirely, to be hunting. Of course, then they would
be in violation of the ordinance prohibiting hunting.
Is this ordinance enforceable against a person openly
carrying a loaded handgun in a holster solely with
lawful intent, such as preparedness for self-defense,
in Auburn Hills? If not, are there any other Auburn
Hills ordinances under which your office would
prosecute such an act as a criminal act?
Respectfully,
Dan M*
248-***-****