OT: legal advice about traffic violations

PT111 · Jul 13, 2008

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You can call it a tax or whatever you want to but I was trying to give you a little advice but you don't seem to care for it. If you go before the judge and start arguing that breaking the law is no big deal then you might as well stay home and mail in the $70. That is unless Oregon has the law about speeding that it is not an enforced limit but a suggested limit and exceeding it can be justified. Many years ago that was the case in SC that if you could show that you were not exceeding a safe speed then you could exceed the posted speed limit. That has been changed.

If you claim that the officer made a mistake and you were not the one speeding and state that you were not speeding then you may have a case. However if you go in just to try and claim that technically you can't be charged since someone else could have been riding you bike or that the officer got the wrong bike etc. you have a tough row to how.

I don't care how wrong the speed limit is it is still the legal speed limit and if you exceeded it and admit it then your only option is jury nullification. It's like running a stop sign in the middle of nowhere. You can argue all day that it is wrong to put it there and doesn't do any good but it still says stop.

johnnyb · Jul 13, 2008

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PT111 wrote:

You can call it a tax or whatever you want to but I was trying to give you a little advice but you don't seem to care for it. If you go before the judge and start arguing that breaking the law is no big deal then you might as well stay home and mail in the $70. That is unless Oregon has the law about speeding that it is not an enforced limit but a suggested limit and exceeding it can be justified. Many years ago that was the case in SC that if you could show that you were not exceeding a safe speed then you could exceed the posted speed limit. That has been changed.

If you claim that the officer made a mistake and you were not the one speeding and state that you were not speeding then you may have a case. However if you go in just to try and claim that technically you can't be charged since someone else could have been riding you bike or that the officer got the wrong bike etc. you have a tough row to how.

I don't care how wrong the speed limit is it is still the legal speed limit and if you exceeded it and admit it then your only option is jury nullification. It's like running a stop sign in the middle of nowhere. You can argue all day that it is wrong to put it there and doesn't do any good but it still says stop.

i was asking advice, and i am accepting yours. but i dont appreciate the condescending post you initially made.

imperialism2024 · Jul 14, 2008

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LEO 229 wrote:

:lol:

QFT

Hey, I got this weird rash... if I post pics, can someone help me out? I kind of slept with a crackwhore over the weekend, but I don't want to hire a doctor...

johnnyb · Jul 15, 2008

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imperialism2024 wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

:lol:

Click to expand...

QFT

Hey, I got this weird rash... if I post pics, can someone help me out? I kind of slept with a crackwhore over the weekend, but I don't want to hire a doctor...

loser. :lol:

ilbob · Jul 15, 2008

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pay the $70.

if you are worried about the ticket on your record, most states will allow you to go to a bogus traffic school (extra cost) and for a fee that generally exceeds the fine, take the ticket off your record.

if you go to court there is about a 99% chance that you will not only pay the fine but be assessed court costs, on top of losing one or more days of wages.

it does not matter much if you were really speeding or not. the court will accept the cop's statement that you were, and pretty much ignore anything you say about it in your 20 second trial.

one possibility is to look for gross errors on the ticket. once in a blue moon a cop will fill in the blanks wrong.

johnnyb · Jul 15, 2008

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ilbob wrote:

pay the $70.

if you are worried about the ticket on your record, most states will allow you to go to a bogus traffic school (extra cost) and for a fee that generally exceeds the fine, take the ticket off your record.

if you go to court there is about a 99% chance that you will not only pay the fine but be assessed court costs, on top of losing one or more days of wages.

it does not matter much if you were really speeding or not. the court will accept the cop's statement that you were, and pretty much ignore anything you say about it in your 20 second trial.

one possibility is to look for gross errors on the ticket. once in a blue moon a cop will fill in the blanks wrong.

1. i will probably just pay it.

2. i'm on a salary

3.

i assumed so

4. i have had this happen before. i got a large ticket in my z28 and the officer wrote it on a saturday (on purpose i think) he was an old timer and liked the car

Johnny Law · Jul 15, 2008

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johnnyb wrote:

whose side are you on? do you really think its nessecary or right to make people pay extra tax because they were 5 over the "speed limit"

i think ANYTIME ANYONE can get out of any type of non felony, even some felony charges i would support them guilty or not. because something is "against the law" doesn't mean its "wrong"

your solution that "be glad its not more tax slave" is disturbing. you must be a LEO or work for the government

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

google map 'vernonia oregon" and tell me if going 5 over i the middle of @#$%ing nowhere means i should pay more tax.

i don't know if i was "speeding" or not because i was not looking at my speedo

you should be on my side, because the sheer amount of laws or "violations" we have in this country is completely ludicrious. no matter how hard you try, you will break at least one everyday. these are used as taxes, not for anyone's protect, or to make people safe, or to do anything else... besides raise money.

You made a choice to speed. Everyone does it numerous times every day. You've gotten away with it countless times before,but this was youryour turn to get a ticket. . You can be as bitter as you like, but you freely admit to speeding. Coming on here and asking for people to help you to figure out a way to make yourself look not guilty of something you clearly did is crap. You even condone allowing people to commit felonies in your above post.

Don't agree with the laws? keep breaking them and you will get more than your share of attention from those sworn to uphold it.

johnnyb · Jul 15, 2008

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Johnny Law wrote:

johnnyb wrote:

whose side are you on? do you really think its nessecary or right to make people pay extra tax because they were 5 over the "speed limit"

i think ANYTIME ANYONE can get out of any type of non felony, even some felony charges i would support them guilty or not. because something is "against the law" doesn't mean its "wrong"

your solution that "be glad its not more tax slave" is disturbing. you must be a LEO or work for the government

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

google map 'vernonia oregon" and tell me if going 5 over i the middle of @#$%ing nowhere means i should pay more tax.

i don't know if i was "speeding" or not because i was not looking at my speedo

you should be on my side, because the sheer amount of laws or "violations" we have in this country is completely ludicrious. no matter how hard you try, you will break at least one everyday. these are used as taxes, not for anyone's protect, or to make people safe, or to do anything else... besides raise money.

Click to expand...

You made a choice to speed. Everyone does it numerous times every day. You've gotten away with it countless times before,but this was youryour turn to get a ticket. . You can be as bitter as you like, but you freely admit to speeding. Coming on here and asking for people to help you to figure out a way to make yourself look not guilty of something you clearly did is crap. You even condone allowing people to commit felonies in your above post.

Don't agree with the laws? keep breaking them and you will get more than your share of attention from those sworn to uphold it.

go F yourself pig.

you ARE against us.

your condensending authority complex is why people hate you, and god forbid the SHTF you WILL be the first group of people targeted, and you will deserve it.

Orygunner · Jul 15, 2008

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Johnny Law wrote:

You made a choice to speed. Everyone does it numerous times every day. You've gotten away with it countless times before,but this was youryour turn to get a ticket. . You can be as bitter as you like, but you freely admit to speeding. Coming on here and asking for people to help you to figure out a way to make yourself look not guilty of something you clearly did is crap. You even condone allowing people to commit felonies in your above post.

Don't agree with the laws? keep breaking them and you will get more than your share of attention from those sworn to uphold it.

Unlike criminal offences, infractions are not a crime. There is no jail time, and you just have to pay a fine (or a Tax as JohnnyB put it) for your transgression.

Sure, if you break enough of them, the State can revoke your privilege to drive on their roads, or if you fail to show up to court, THAT is a crime you can be arrested for.

I feel the reason police officers write so many tickets for infractions is to a) obtain revenue for the state/county/city, b) look for the BIGGER crimes, such as DUIIs, people with warrants, driving uninsured, driving while suspended, and c) feel like they're doing something positive for the community by making the roads safer.

I, for one, resent the anal retentiveness of some police departments that pull people over for the SMALLEST offense to look for the "big fish" (I overheard a small-town Coburg Oregon cop tell someone they pulled them over for swinging "too wide" on a corner, what crap), or writing tickets for 1-2 MPH over the speed limit (That used to be Reedsport, Oregon, highest # of traffic tickets written on the coast, so I heard).

Ifhe was really violating the posted speed, so what? it's an infraction, not a crime. I believe in the "Basic Speed Rule" which is to not drive faster than road conditions allow for safe driving. That being said, I do stick fairly close to the posted speed, especially with gas prices what they are now. but it's mainly to save fuel, not to appease "the Man"

.

Although johnnyb may have broken the posted speed, from what I've heard so far it doesn't sound like he was in violation of the basic rule out there in Vernonia if he was only going 5-10 over the limit.

I grew up in Clatskanie, about 20 miles away. Funny, cops didn't used to be that Anal about the speed limits in them parts.

If you have the time or inclination, johnnyb, I'd try to fight it. At least if you please not guilty at the court date, they'll set another date for the trial, and there's always the chance the officer won't show

...Orygunner...

johnnyb · Jul 15, 2008

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Orygunner wrote:

Johnny Law wrote:

You made a choice to speed. Everyone does it numerous times every day. You've gotten away with it countless times before,but this was youryour turn to get a ticket. . You can be as bitter as you like, but you freely admit to speeding. Coming on here and asking for people to help you to figure out a way to make yourself look not guilty of something you clearly did is crap. You even condone allowing people to commit felonies in your above post.

Don't agree with the laws? keep breaking them and you will get more than your share of attention from those sworn to uphold it.

Click to expand...

Unlike criminal offences, infractions are not a crime. There is no jail time, and you just have to pay a fine (or a Tax as JohnnyB put it) for your transgression.

Sure, if you break enough of them, the State can revoke your privilege to drive on their roads, or if you fail to show up to court, THAT is a crime you can be arrested for.

I feel the reason police officers write so many tickets for infractions is to a) obtain revenue for the state/county/city, b) look for the BIGGER crimes, such as DUIIs, people with warrants, driving uninsured, driving while suspended, and c) feel like they're doing something positive for the community by making the roads safer.

I, for one, resent the anal retentiveness of some police departments that pull people over for the SMALLEST offense to look for the "big fish" (I overheard a small-town Coburg Oregon cop tell someone they pulled them over for swinging "too wide" on a corner, what crap), or writing tickets for 1-2 MPH over the speed limit (That used to be Reedsport, Oregon, highest # of traffic tickets written on the coast, so I heard).

Ifhe was really violating the posted speed, so what? it's an infraction, not a crime. I believe in the "Basic Speed Rule" which is to not drive faster than road conditions allow for safe driving. That being said, I do stick fairly close to the posted speed, especially with gas prices what they are now. but it's mainly to save fuel, not to appease "the Man" .

Although johnnyb may have broken the posted speed, from what I've heard so far it doesn't sound like he was in violation of the basic rule out there in Vernonia if he was only going 5-10 over the limit.

I grew up in Clatskanie, about 20 miles away. Funny, cops didn't used to be that Anal about the speed limits in them parts.

If you have the time or inclination, johnnyb, I'd try to fight it. At least if you please not guilty at the court date, they'll set another date for the trial, and there's always the chance the officer won't show

...Orygunner...

heh, there is a chance. but not a good one since the officer lives in vernonia and the court is in vernonia so its literally 30 seconds away from his house i would guess

soooo many people love to ride hwy 47, scap/vern hwy, apairy hwy, messiener etc... its a huge cash cow for the vernonia/columbia county sheriff.

everything you said in your post in true. the biggest glaring proof that infractions are revenue generators is the figures politicians present $$$$$ figures everytime they is a change, lower speed limit, shorter yellow lights, etc...

these governments count on the money...

and yes you are right, going 40 in a 35 on the outskirts of vernonia is nothing, and basically i just got taxed ANOTHER 70 dollars.

ps:
this is a disgusting ad at the top of my page for gay.com "he made me blush" how in the world did google adsense think to put that ad up here...

imperialism2024 · Jul 16, 2008

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Johnny Law wrote:

You made a choice to speed. Everyone does it numerous times every day. You've gotten away with it countless times before,but this was youryour turn to get a ticket. . You can be as bitter as you like, but you freely admit to speeding. Coming on here and asking for people to help you to figure out a way to make yourself look not guilty of something you clearly did is crap. You even condone allowing people to commit felonies in your above post.

Don't agree with the laws? keep breaking them and you will get more than your share of attention from those sworn to uphold it.

I've got to agree with that. And I'm not an LEO, so you can't rely on LEO-bashing to refute me. :celebrate

The thing is... if you don't speed, then fine. You shouldn't be worrying about getting tickets. If you do speed, then take the ticket. Perhaps try to get the speed limit raised if you feel it's too low. I'd sure you could get a lot of support if it's as ridiculously low as you're saying. Or, if you're trying for "civil disobedience", it's kind of counterproductive to your cause to try to beat the ticket. Just don't pay it, then, and in doing so make a stand against low speed limits. Or do what I do, and just pay the tickets you get and count them as a bargain for all the times you speed and don't get caught.

At any rate, as I alluded to in my last post, this thread is OT for the purposes of OCDO. It may only seem on-topic if one thinks this site is about rallying anti-LEO sentiment... which it isn't.

Gunslinger · Jul 16, 2008

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If I get a ticket which was correct, I go to court. If I get a ticket that is bogus, I go to court. I've never lost on a bogus ticket, and do pretty well on legitimate ones, i.e., speed reduced to 5 over on the two I've lost. I don't lie about how fast I was going, I destroy the cop's credibility and show others in the court how to fight a ticket. The judge generally just wants to get rid of me so everyone will not follow my lead. The prosecution is usually very conducive to dropping the charge down. I can afford to pay the fine, but I enjoy the challenge. And I like watching the other cases--better than TV dramas! I've driven high performance cars since the late '60s and know how to handle them. If I speed, I do so safely. Still, it's illegal and I take my chance. I just don't consider the game over if caught. Traffic Courts should have a cash register, not a statue of 'Blind Justice,' as their avator.

John Pierce · Jul 16, 2008

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johnnyb wrote:

go F yourself pig.

you ARE against us.

your condensending authority complex is why people hate you, and god forbid the SHTF you WILL be the first group of people targeted, and you will deserve it.

This kind of attack (against anyone) is NOT acceptable.

Keep it civil even during disagreements!

Greggy_D · Jul 16, 2008

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PT111 wrote:

I was on the jury in a case similar to yours and while we were deliberating one person said, "Did he ever actually say he wasn't speeding?". After that we were out if there in about five minutes.

Nice jury job. :X

He doesn't have to indicate that he wasn't speeding. In fact, he doesn't have to say anything.

johnnyb · Jul 16, 2008

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Greggy_D wrote:

PT111 wrote:

I was on the jury in a case similar to yours and while we were deliberating one person said, "Did he ever actually say he wasn't speeding?". After that we were out if there in about five minutes.

Click to expand...

Nice jury job. :X

He doesn't have to indicate that he wasn't speeding. In fact, he doesn't have to say anything.

there was some phrase way back, i think it was something like innocent until proven guilty. can't rememeber exactly :banghead:

Citizen · Jul 16, 2008

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johnnyb wrote:

Greggy_D wrote:

PT111 wrote:

I was on the jury in a case similar to yours and while we were deliberating one person said, "Did he ever actually say he wasn't speeding?". After that we were out if there in about five minutes.

Click to expand...

Nice jury job. :X

He doesn't have to indicate that he wasn't speeding. In fact, he doesn't have to say anything.

Click to expand...

there was some phrase way back, i think it was something like innocent until proven guilty. can't rememeber exactly :banghead:

There is another old term. Goes back at least as far as William Penn's trial in England.

Jury Nullification.

Doug Huffman · Jul 17, 2008

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I am stunned by how frequently our conversations drift to traffic citations instigating sworn officer interactions. That suggests that we aren't the best behaved bunch in the florist shop of life.

Maybe someone will put up a survey of lifetime interactions with line of duty fuzz. As a driver, I've had three, the latest in 1977.

PT111 · Jul 17, 2008

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Greggy_D wrote:

PT111 wrote:

I was on the jury in a case similar to yours and while we were deliberating one person said, "Did he ever actually say he wasn't speeding?". After that we were out if there in about five minutes.

Click to expand...

Nice jury job. :X

He doesn't have to indicate that he wasn't speeding. In fact, he doesn't have to say anything.

You are completely correct. We were trying to decide and the LEO said he was speeding and the fellow did not deny it.If you have one person that says Glocks are terrible and no one says anything different then who are you to believe? He testified that the LEO couldn't have seen him from where he was sitting, that the LEO was on private property and several things like that.If he had said he wasn't speeding then we would have let him go. This wasn't even a case of one person's word against another it was I want you to let me go because I can BS a lot.

Citizen · Jul 17, 2008

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Doug Huffman wrote:

Maybe someone will put up a survey of lifetime interactions with line of duty fuzz. As a driver, I've had three, the latest in 1977.

We kinda suspected that from your choice of colloquialism for police.

Gunslinger · Jul 19, 2008

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Citizen wrote:

johnnyb wrote:

Greggy_D wrote:

PT111 wrote:

I was on the jury in a case similar to yours and while we were deliberating one person said, "Did he ever actually say he wasn't speeding?". After that we were out if there in about five minutes.

Click to expand...

Nice jury job. :X

He doesn't have to indicate that he wasn't speeding. In fact, he doesn't have to say anything.

Click to expand...

there was some phrase way back, i think it was something like innocent until proven guilty. can't rememeber exactly :banghead:

Click to expand...

There is another old term. Goes back at least as far as William Penn's trial in England.

Jury Nullification.

Right on! And it is a factor more often than most would believe. Thank heavens!

Jury nullification means making a law void by jury decision, in other words "the process whereby a jury in a criminal case effectively nullifies a law by acquitting a defendant regardless of the weight of evidence against him or her."[3]

Jury nullification is more specifically any rendering of a verdict by a trial jury, acquitting a criminal defendant despite the defendant's violation of the letter of the law. This verdict need not disagree with the instructions by the judge concerning what the law is, but may disagree with an instruction, if given by the judge, that the jury is required to apply the law to the defendant if certain facts are found.

Although a jury's refusal relates only to the particular case before it, if a pattern of such verdicts develops in response to repeated attempts to prosecute a statutory offense, it can have the practical effect of disabling the enforcement of the statute. "Jury nullification" is thus a means for the people to express opposition to an unpopular legislative enactment.

OT: legal advice about traffic violations

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