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OC

asforme

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I personally agree with what you did, and would have done the same.

But one point to think about that is brought up in the "fighting pistol" training course. Sometimes the person who appears to be the attacker could be an undercover cop. He says that it has happened where uniformed police have shot undercover cops. But IMO, undercover cop or not, if he's beating on a woman he deserves to be drawn on.
 

Johnny Law

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I commend you Esstac,

While the only obligation a citizen (in Wash.)has is to summon help (911) in such an instance, I would expect that the vast majority of folks would at least do that. On the other hand, you went above/beyond what joe average would do, and intervened.

I have diffusednumerous situations similar to what you described, but that is expected of me, part of my job, and hardly newsworthy.When a citizen steps up and takes action as you did, You have earned my utmost respect. I have no issue with using your gun to control the situation, as it is exactly whatPolice do on a daily basis. You acted reasonably, and it sounds like the Officers onscene agreed with this as well.

There is nothing I like more than to go back and tell my co-workers a story of how a citizen intervened, stopped a crime, or captured a bg. It is always great to hear about an incident like this, as it shows that there are still people out there who have a strong moral sense of right and wrong, and are willing to step in and intervene even if it means putting themselves at some risk.

Nice job! JL.
 

joeroket

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Nice work esstac. You did exactly what any decent and caring person should have done. The fact the the responding oficers did not criticize you or talk down to you for your actions should speak very loudly. Had it been the wrong decision I am sure you would have heard it from them.
 

Bear 45/70

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Ohio Patriot wrote:
VtCO wrote:

No. It's called being smart.

The only way I would come to a stranger's aid is if I was 100% sure I understood the situation. And even then, there would be circumstances where I would simply call 911.
Try selfish and arrogant.
rolleyes.gif
 

Trigger Dr

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Ohio Patriot wrote:
VtCO wrote:

No. It's called being smart.

The only way I would come to a stranger's aid is if I was 100% sure I understood the situation. And even then, there would be circumstances where I would simply call 911.

I think that attitude is selfish and self serving at best.

You can rest assured that if you were the victim and I came upon the scene, I would intervene even knowing that you would not do the same for me.
 

Ohio Patriot

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Bear 45/70 wrote:
Try selfish and arrogant.
rolleyes.gif
Look, I'm a realist. I understand my limitations. I also understand I can't go around saving everyone. Doing so would put me at considerable risk. I have 3 children and a wife to support, and they're a million times more important to me than some drunken strangers in a fist fight.

If you truly want to save people in this manner, why don't you hang out in the parking lot of some bars this evening? I'm sure you'll see a few fights, some of which may be boyfriends hitting their girlfriends. Let me know how it goes.
 

Bear 45/70

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Ohio Patriot wrote:
Bear 45/70 wrote:
Try selfish and arrogant.
rolleyes.gif
Look, I'm a realist. I understand my limitations. I also understand I can't go around saving everyone. Doing so would put me at considerable risk. I have 3 children and a wife to support, and they're a million times more important to me than some drunken strangers in a fist fight.

If you truly want to save people in this manner, why don't you hang out in the parking lot of some bars this evening? I'm sure you'll see a few fights, some of which may be boyfriends hitting their girlfriends. Let me know how it goes.
If stopping a crime puts you at risk, why carry at all as stopping a crime against you or yours puts you at the same risk? How would you feel if a guy with a gun on his person, just called 911 and stood by while your wife was beaten and robbed? If you aren't up to using the gun when necessary, maybe you better rethink carrying at all. I guess you stay on the pouch and don't run with the big dogs.
 

holeinhead

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Kirkland, Washington, USA
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I think you did a great job Esstac! What you did took courage!

To those who say just call 911: That's fine. There's no obligation to put yourself in danger in a situation such as this, and I can't fault someone who is unwilling to do so.

But if I were in Esstac's situation, I hope that I would have the same courage to take action as he did, and have the presence of mind to handle it in the manner that he did. Again, great job Esstac!
 

David.Car

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I'm not going to bother joining this argument against Ohio, his perogative is to himself and his family, and that is his choice.

Anyways.My only suggestion is you talk to your father about the chasing part. Let the ass hole go. What if he rounded a corner and right as your dad followed he was waiting with a knife. Your dad would be dead.

When the guy runs away, that is a good thing for you because it ends the danger in that confrontation.

The police will have the women for information, they have the guys car for ALL his information.

When there is a chance to end the danger, take it. Him running away was that chance.

Other than that, well done.
 

Kevin Jensen

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Feb 23, 2007
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Santaquin, Utah, USA
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Ohio Patriot wrote:
You should have stayed in the apartment and dialed 911. That would have been the smart thing to do.
Just like the people who called 911, as they watched a father stomp the life out of his son in California?
 

Kevin Jensen

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I have never been in a situation like this, and hopefully I never will be. A the face value of this story, I believe that my personal reaction would have been to try to stop the man from beating the woman, without having to draw my weapon. If he then became a threat to me, then I would justify drawing on him. But these are just my thoughts, and my reaction in this situation might be completely different.

I do not carry a firearm to be a hero. But if somebody's life is threatened, and I have the ability to end that threat, you can bet that I will do all that I can to help.

esstac, I have to applaud your actions. Your intervention may have very well saved this woman's life.

A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.
 

esstac

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camano island, Washington, USA
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Thanks for the comments and support! Good or bad that is fine, many people have different views and there all welcome on this.



First off I will tell you a bit about myself, some of this I just learned last night of all nights and it had nothing to do with this incident, I learned of most of this info about 2 hours prior. I was given a stack of legal documents and witness statements from my parents last night. Feburary 29th 1980(I never new the date) I was attacked by an Alaskan Malamute in the parking lot of an apartment that I lived on with my family on Casino Road in Everett, not to far from where this happened. The dog attacked me and bit my face, it wasn't a bite, it was a grab and never let go. The Dog grabbed me by the face and started to do the death shake, this I remember but allot of the rest I have not known for 28 years.

Sad ehh? But thanks to a man I do not know and have never again seen, my Dad has never even met him, I am alive. This man was changing a tire across the street from where I was attacked, when it happened he did not know what to do so he picked up his tire iron and ran to my aid beating the dog in the head till he would let go of me and the dog ran off. I have a scar above my eye, my entire nose has a nice little squiggly line down it as it was ripped open and under my beard on my left cheak is a nasty scar from where my entire cheak was ripped open, 109 stitches later not many people even notice this.

The 2 men who owned the dog were never brought to trial as they skipped town and were never located 3 years later, this I just found out yesterday. I do know the dog was tracked down and put down. This has never affected me though, till now, now that I have learned more info on it and it is bringing back memeroies of the accident I never remembered.

But all of that is moot, I got bit and shit happens. This gal was being beat, I saw she was doing nothing but trying to get away from him and she like that little boy 28 years ago needed help. Last night I did what a man did for me, saved a complete stranger. If nothing else I owed it to that man with the tire iron not to sit by and wait for the police, they responded and did the best they could do but it was 4-5 minutes before they had arrived. If that man with the tire iron only called the police I would not be here today that dog wanted me dead, I cannot say the same for this Gal as we do not know this guys intentions. If that was my Mom, sister, my children or my wife or hell even my EX-wife I hope someone picks up that tire iron instead of just being a good witness.

In 2001 I had an on the job injury, one that could have left me far more disabled then I am now. over 2000 pounds of sheetmetal tipped over on me and crushed me. I now have a pretty good limp and a partial disability in my leg and a crushed vertebre. You wouldn't know this from a casual meet on the street as I do not put out my issues for others(stateing this to show people helping actualy helps) If it was not for guys on my crew who went into action to get all 52 sheets off of me I probably would have lost at least one leg. It took almost a full 10 minutes from the time I was crushed till the fire dept arrived. Some higher ups wanted my guys to leave it on me, thankfuly they listened to me and got the shit off me. Over a year later I was back on the job, and after a few months realized I could not do the job anymore and called it quits, I now work for myself.


What I know of this Gal, I talked her down into a more common state, yes she was a reluctant witness but she was more embarrassed for putting herself into that situation. She is an aprentice in the construction field, has known the guy off and on for 3 months and said he was just a booty call or whatever, they were at a bar and left and when they did he became agressive in the car, she thinks because she had flirted with other guys. Is this true? no idea but what she told me and how embarrassed she felt about it. No reason for someone to be beating her. Thankfully last night she was placed in our hands and not driven to some dark lit alley as we do not know what he planned.

This Gal could have been a Daughter of someone on this board, who knows. I do know if it wasn't for the fact that we are night owls and happened to be at my parents at that momment, 2 minutes later and we would have been gone this could have went down much worse. of that entire apartment complex only one person came out of there door to see what was going on and that was only because of my yelling that woke him.

I would do this again, I assessed what was going on, my main concern was to get the Gal away from him and to stop what was happening, why it happened and the events that led up to it is not my place to point blame. The situation ended and no one else was getting hurt so I think I did the right thing.

If I had gotten into trouble or worse last night that was my choice but I was not going to be an inocent looky lou if I had the means to do anything. If I get in hot water later over my action, they were my actions and I will be held acountable, I have no issue with that at all...

Last night I was that man with the tire iron, and I hope he would aprove
 

badger

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Mukilteo, Washington, USA
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+1,000 OP! And to all you others chastizing him for being a f**king hero, GTH!

If my wife or daughter were in the same situation as the girl in that car I'd pray to God there were someone there willing to help and not just "call 911 and watch/wait".

I think you handled yourself great and saved that girl's life.

-Badger
 

esstac

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camano island, Washington, USA
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David.Car wrote:
Anyways.My only suggestion is you talk to your father about the chasing part. Let the ass hole go. What if he rounded a corner and right as your dad followed he was waiting with a knife. Your dad would be dead.

When the guy runs away, that is a good thing for you because it ends the danger in that confrontation.
I cannot argue with that,

My Father was not chasing him down to stop him, it was more chasing him off and he only went to the end of the parking lot. He mentioned he wished he was 10 years younger and had come out the other side of the building where he could have knocked him down.

Both his and my main concern was to stop the attack, I would not have persued at all and I think my Father doing so put him at a greater distance from us and created a buffer for if he chooses to return.

I think If I had ordered him down he may have complied, I never did as I wanted him gone for the safety of the Gal and my family and myself. Him fleeing was the best thing to happen, but it would have been nice to have him in custody. If the Gal gave enough info on him hopfully they will aprehend him at a later date and he can spend some time in jail.
 

Bobarino

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Puyallup, Washington, USA
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i think you did the right thing. you have the tools and and the will to help others and you used both. good on ya. sitting there doing nothing and calling 911 would be like watching someone's car burst into flames trapping the driver and instead of grabbing your fire extiguisher from the kitchen and going to help, just sitting there and calling the fire department and waiting because you might burn your hands. not cool in my book.

i guess we all have to decide early on whether we would use our method of defense for ourselves and those directly related to us only, or for the good of anyone that we may be able to help, whether they be known to us or not.

i don't think i could ever just stand idly by as someone is raped, beaten, or otherwise endangered without doing anything about it. it all goes back to the Wolf, Sheep and Sheepdog analogy.

i give you big kudos for what you did. thanks for sticking up for those who could do it for themselves.

Bobby
 

esstac

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badger wrote:

This is one thing I am not, I think people who step up and help others are all heros in my book. But when it happened to me I do not think I am, I did what I believed was right and what I wish would happen more often. I think instead of acting like a Hero I acted like a human being and how one should act

To put that in perspective all the men an women who gave there lives on 9/11 and those who went into the buildings were not heros to me, they were humans helping others in time of need and honoring there life as well as others.
 

Bear 45/70

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esstac wrote:
badger wrote:

This is one thing I am not, I think people who step up and help others are all heros in my book. But when it happened to me I do not think I am, I did what I believed was right and what I wish would happen more often. I think instead of acting like a Hero I acted like a human being and how one should act

To put that in perspective all the men an women who gave there lives on 9/11 and those who went into the buildings were not heros to me, they were humans helping others in time of need and honoring there life as well as others.
By definition a hero is someone that does heroic things and never thinks of himself as a hero.
 
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