Walmart gearing up against OC's

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I still don't like Wal-mart.

OH, and Utahbagpiper, if you reread, it was not the OP who said anything about Wal-mart putting up signs. From what I see it was a LEO.

Not sure it was a LEO, but it was not the OP.

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Someone on THR appears to have picked up on this.

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=377565

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Phssthpok wrote:

Put on your 'think like a lawyer' hats folks. No where in the first E-mail do I see their legal department giving them the green light to bar OC'rs from the store. It merely lays out the legal requirements/restrictions in Utah to do so. The way I read this e-mail the legal department answered the question that was asked (can we do this/what are the requirements?) and ONLY the question asked. It would seem that the inquiry did not ask about corporate policy...merely legal requirements.

The second E-mail is an internal memo for THAT STORE (note the opening header...it addresses the 'team'...meaning employee's). This is simply a local store's management ignoring the established CORPORATE policy of mirroring state law and imposing their own rules.

IMHO this si still a 'rogue store' issue, not a 'duplicitous corporation' issue.

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That's what I read in it also.

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I also agree that the OP did not ask them to put up signs, the LEO did. Also, the OP did not mention that he wanted to file a lawsuit, he mentioned that somebody else might see this and challenge it.

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Mike wrote:

schwarzi88 wrote:

sorry this is a lil late but i had some major stuff to take care of at my house...... Anyways, i was at the Walmart at 106th south and 5th west on thurs July 3rd around 8:30 PM when i was asked to leave ..... i was not even in there for 10 min. as 2 Ass. Mngs came up to me and asked me to put my sidearm in the car befor i continue doingmy shopping .... i told him that coprate stated ....bla bla bla ....bla bla ...... and i asked to talk to the district Mng. .... he told me he wasn't avalible and when i said that i was not going anywhere until he got ahold of him someone on the walky talky said to call the police..... that was my cue, lolol. so on the way to the door the 2nd Ass. Mng went to get me a supposed E-Mail that the legal department sent to all the stores. So as i passed the door greeter i asked her to give me a paper and a pen so i can write down the names of both Ass. Mng. As luck would have it i saw a LEO patroling the parking lot and i asked the male Ass. Mng. to go talk to her and clear some things up ....... to make a long story short she asked them why they didn't post sighns against Weapons to avoid this all the time ..... they said that since it was Private property they didn't have to :shock:..... so about that time the 2nd ass. Mng came out and handed me the 2 E-Mails......... i'm gonna paste these on here and u guys argue it out. I just think that Walmart is using its power as a corp. Giant to do as it pleases and silly enough gets away with it! I'm thinking that they have a lawsuit waiting to happen just to proove a point ...... maybe get a $10,000 Gift card out of it lol. well guys all jokes aside i think this prob shoud be addressed!

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3. You have no right to demand anything of private entities. Once notified you must leave, let management or whatever agent appears to be ordering you to leave that you are disappointed, that you believe they are not following national corporate policy which does not ban lawful gun carry, & then leave your cart in the isle, and leave nicely.


So bottom line, this report is an example of how NOT to handle an adverse private entity interaction, espectially since WalMart appears to remain strategically ambiguous as to the issue of carry, and may for all we know let state or reguional managers establish theri own policy - we want them to either stay that way, or not fall off the fense on the side of posting their establishments.

the right message is when WalMart employees and managers see a happy customer OCing on the way OUT of their store with a smile and a receipt in her hand!

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Ifully agree withMikesabove mentioned comments.

I believe "our effort" here is to do all we can to blunt the negative sterotypes hung around the necks of gun owners.

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Well, I don't know if this means they support it, but I have been in about 4 different Targets in the last two weeks, for about an hour or so each and in every case OC'ing. I even asked associates questions about products and where I could find something and not asked me to leave.

Since it has been so hot here in Souther California I have been wearing my tan shorts with a black holster and have so I know they saw it. And remember I live in a state where "People are against guns." I find this to be wrong, people are for the guns, policy makers are the ones against.

Keep up the good fight.

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schwarzi88 wrote: the right message is when WalMart employees and managers see a happy customer OCing on the way OUT of their store with a smile and a receipt in her hand!

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:lol::lol: I guess I'll just walk into the store backwards so they don't see it and walk out of the store backwards so they do see it! ahhahaha :lol::lol:

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Do what I do. Wal-Mart usually has two entrances. The greeters tend to stand on the same side of these entrances every day. In my case, the Payson Wal-Mart was an east and a west entrance. At the east entrance, the greeter is normally on my weak side when I enter. At the west entrance, the greeter is usually on my strong side when I enter. I never use the west entrance. I will always enter with the greeter to my weak side, or through the tire center at the back of the store. Then, when I exit, the greeter is now on my strong side.

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I agree this email came from the legal department it is located withing the same area code as Corperate but not from anyone like the vice president. I have been in contact with corperate and expect a response back sometime this week. That email that we got our hands on was never suppose to leave Wal-Mart but was a vital part of the puzzle with my conversation with Don Schultize. My conversation was very good and he is a gun owner as well. I belive without saying this he told me who I needed to talk with to get this worked out. I am now waiting on a call from Corperate. Also I will be in contact with the Board Of Directors who govern what Wal-Mart does as well. I have a very good chance of getting a permant policy with Wal-Mart on open carrying in their store. I have media contacts who will be working with me if negotiaons go sour. I plan on inviting Don Schultize to our meet up on the 17th so he can see first hand who he is dealing with so he does not make up his own conclusions about who we are.

I want to make a point that during this time I am communcating with Wal-Mart we all are respectfull when asked to leave Wal-Mart if asked not to create any issues where it becomes negitave and puts us in a bad light also I woukd like to point out the more times we open carry into Wal-Mart and are respectfull with managment and do what is asked of us this will help. Thanks again for everyones role they have played in open carrying into Wal-mart puttting us in a good light so far.

I will keep every one posted also will include contact info so others other then me are working with corperate to get this handled.

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gunsfreak4791 wrote:

I agree this email came from the legal department it is located withing the same area code as Corperate but not from anyone like the vice president. I have been in contact with corperate and expect a response back sometime this week. That email that we got our hands on was never suppose to leave Wal-Mart but was a vital part of the puzzle with my conversation with Don Schultize. My conversation was very good and he is a gun owner as well. I belive without saying this he told me who I needed to talk with to get this worked out. I am now waiting on a call from Corperate. Also I will be in contact with the Board Of Directors who govern what Wal-Mart does as well. I have a very good chance of getting a permant policy with Wal-Mart on open carrying in their store. I have media contacts who will be working with me if negotiaons go sour. I plan on inviting Don Schultize to our meet up on the 17th so he can see first hand who he is dealing with so he does not make up his own conclusions about who we are.

I want to make a point that during this time I am communcating with Wal-Mart we all are respectfull when asked to leave Wal-Mart if asked not to create any issues where it becomes negitave and puts us in a bad light also I woukd like to point out the more times we open carry into Wal-Mart and are respectfull with managment and do what is asked of us this will help. Thanks again for everyones role they have played in open carrying into Wal-mart puttting us in a good light so far.

I will keep every one posted also will include contact info so others other then me are working with corperate to get this handled.

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Thanks much gunsfreak4791

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thx997303 wrote:

it was not the OP who said anything about Wal-mart putting up signs

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What is an "OP" - please define acronyms.

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OP = Original Poster

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this is going to tighten wal-marts grips on our guns

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum65/13439.html

"Negligent discharge at a Pensacola Wal-Mart"

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chaim on THR wrote:

That said, I'm surprised no one else picked up on the name of the poster on OpenCarry.org the OP quoted "schwarzi88". Schwarz is "black" in German, it can be a common name (just like Schwartz is black in Yiddish and a common name). However, he has it in lowercase letters (implying the word, not the name) and I wonder what the "i" after the word means (in Yiddish the soft "a" sound at the end makes it mean the same as the "n" word). That combined with the 88 makes me wonder- I've never seen 88 as an identifier for anyone but members of a certain group. The Neo-Nazis love it, the 8 stands for the 8th letter of the alphabet (h), the 88 or double H stands for the Nazi slogan which I don't wish to repeat (heil then the name of the leader). It does make me wonder if he did anything to antagonize the store management other than carry (such as certain tattoos, certain slogans on his t-shirt, etc.).

At any rate, it doesn't change the beginning of my post. Retailers and others banning carry is a dangerous trend with disturbing consequences if it continues at the current rate. However, my point is that we need to be careful who we have representing us (hopefully if the guy is a Neo-Nazi, which with his name I suspect he is, he wasn't dressed like one at Walmart, hopefully he was in business casual or a suit, we want to break stereotypes, not reinforce them).

__________________
"Except for ending slavery, fascism, Nazism and Communism
War has never solved anything"

LMWFAO i'm white german my political belives are MINE and should intrest noone else..... that being said some people seem to see nazis every where :shockaranoia whatever u may call it OMFG that name was on a random email i sighned up for and i just kept it for over 10 years lol
Clear enough PPL!!!

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schwarzi88 wrote:

chaim on THR wrote:

That said, I'm surprised no one else picked up on the name of the poster on OpenCarry.org the OP quoted "schwarzi88". Schwarz is "black" in German, it can be a common name (just like Schwartz is black in Yiddish and a common name). However, he has it in lowercase letters (implying the word, not the name) and I wonder what the "i" after the word means (in Yiddish the soft "a" sound at the end makes it mean the same as the "n" word). That combined with the 88 makes me wonder- I've never seen 88 as an identifier for anyone but members of a certain group. The Neo-Nazis love it, the 8 stands for the 8th letter of the alphabet (h), the 88 or double H stands for the Nazi slogan which I don't wish to repeat (heil then the name of the leader). It does make me wonder if he did anything to antagonize the store management other than carry (such as certain tattoos, certain slogans on his t-shirt, etc.).

At any rate, it doesn't change the beginning of my post. Retailers and others banning carry is a dangerous trend with disturbing consequences if it continues at the current rate. However, my point is that we need to be careful who we have representing us (hopefully if the guy is a Neo-Nazi, which with his name I suspect he is, he wasn't dressed like one at Walmart, hopefully he was in business casual or a suit, we want to break stereotypes, not reinforce them).

__________________
"Except for ending slavery, fascism, Nazism and Communism
War has never solved anything"

LMWFAO i'm white german my political belives are MINE and should intrest noone else..... that being said some people seem to see nazis every where :shockaranoia whatever u may call it OMFG that name was on a random email i sighned up for and i just kept it for over 10 years lol
Clear enough PPL!!!

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Seemed to me on THR like he was going a bit overboard with his conspiracy therory. I am glad to here that it was random and that guy can take a flying leap.

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Also note the anti OC sentiments that keep going on.

People are accusing Open carriers of going into places that prohibit weapons, then refusing to leave when asked.

I wish they would read the threads here on Open carry and realize that anyone doing that would be met with disapproval.

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hey smithy whats up .... u know me i talked to u at the old "Get Some" u wanted to talk to mike about the gunsmith job i'm the tattoo artist u checked out my ruger cuz i had jam issues i came by a couple of times out to FBMG and we BSed a lil glad to see u here ! WELCOME

as to mike , i know it could have been handled in a better way but "all roads lead to hell" at the end i did get a handshake (sincire or not , it doesn't matter ) and he told me to come back anytime

so pardon my ignorance in handeling this prob. al lil diffrent then others might have. i was just more upset at the ignorance of the Ass. Mng. then with the whole situation. they didn't want to hear anything about what corprate stated and i felt a lilbit discriminated against.

i have dealt with strange looks because of my appearence for the last 20 years i'm heavily Tattooed (i'm a tattoo artist, comes with the job, lol) it was my decision to get tattooed and i can't blame ppl for not quite excepting me big deal i have no prob. with that , their loss . most ppl that know me like me and i make new friends evryday so i'm quite happy with my life. I keep my nose clean, i have the right to carry fire arms and to posses them without any complications, and as long as i don't get into trouble i will always have that right!

i may look a lil diffrent but isn't that part of the whole "we as a whole trying to change ppls perspective on gun owners and OCs" am i not part of that group of ppl trying to educate the public? some ppl might have a prob. with my appearence and they may think "How is HE allowed to carry ...." lol all they have to do is ask me and i'm more than willing to explain!

sorry to drag this out but Mike remember ur first OC negative encounter and think back as to how u handled it , if u did everything perfect then my hat goes off to u but if u didn't then .... well ur smart enough to see what i'm getting at. My booty still hurts from the chewin u gave me lol.

hope to hear from everyone soon!

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:celebrateHow's it going pal. Nice to hear from you. You're always welcome at FBMG so stop by andBS some time.I just found this forum when this story hit theUtah conceald carry forum. Good to be here.

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In the second Walmart email, it refers to the OP as a gun-activist, and I get the feeling that they're implying that his sole purpose in entering Walmart while OC'ing was to make a political statement.... rather than to do what most people do when they go to Walmart.

IMHO, making a political statement and/or arguing the 2nd Amendment when being negatively confronted for OC'ing is counterproductive. When we do that, we go from being just an average citizen exercising our RTKBA in the course of our daily lives, to a political activist (or gun-nut in a lot of people's eyes). Unless someone isa skilled debater & level-headed in an argument, thoroughlyfamiliar inlocal/state/federal firearms statutes and their applicability to the specific situation, andisable to produce concrete verifiable materials supporting OC;taking up an argument with management-types or LEOs on their turf and on their terms, is only going to paint the OC'er as a nuisance at least, or possibly a criminal trespasser if cooler heads don't prevail.

I agree that the best argument when confronted in a store, is to just drop everything and leave. Putting up a stink about it, quoting from internet forums half-rememberedstore policies/precedents/preemptionon OC'ing, and generally making a scene is going to attract the attention of not only management and security/LEOs, but also theJ.Q. Public.They'll decide that the show in the dairy-isle is more interesting than the hour-life of incandescent vs. fluorescent lightbulbs, especially since it involves a man-with-a-gun in heated argument with store mngmt & security. I can guarantee that the average Walmart joe/jane is secretly hoping for a firefight, and they're going to be either forming new opinions on gun-owners, or are having their existing negative opinions reinforced.

I know that in the throes of righteous indignation, it's very hard to not stand against the ignorance and discrimination exhibited by sheeple in suits who have been placed in positions of authority. But standing alone in a store full of looky-loos is not the time or place to fight for OC'ing. We have to do our fighting behind the scenes with letters, emails, and phone-calls to the high muckety-mucks,with corroboratinginformationclose at hand. A simpleton store-manager, shift supervisor, or greeterdoesn't have the pull to doanythingbutrequest thatthe offending firearm be left in a vehicle, or that the OC'erleave. Even if they agree with the OC'ers position, they'll simply be preempted by someonehigher up the food-chain who doesn't, and the result will be the same.

I OC for defense, notto make a statement (and I believe that most others herefeel the same way). If I can go about my errands for an entire day, visiting multiple businesses, and not be negatively confronted by a store employee, then I count that as a victory. Being hassled by another citizen because they're hoplophobic doesn't matter in the struggle for acceptance of OC'ing by the business community, so I pretty much ignore them. But if I walk into a Walmart and they tell me to disarm myself, my wallet leaving without being openeddoes the talking.